New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[BitsHammer]

2 minutes ago, Stitch5000 said:

An AK signed preface was in the red rulebook from HH1 but there was no background or lore section for it to support.

So, I'm sorry, but they didn't actually drop anything. and instead used the idea more widely, since there are multiple in-universe "witnesses" in the current run of books as opposed to 1 in the first edition. 

 

I said they dropped it in 2.0 and when the campaign books were brought up pointed out it was the core rulebook and army books that failed to carry it.

 

The AK introduction was in all the black books in 1.0 from the start.

[Stitch5000]

4 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

I said they dropped it in 2.0 and when the campaign books were brought up pointed out it was the core rulebook and army books that failed to carry it.

 

The AK introduction was in all the black books in 1.0 from the start.

Yes and the equivalent introduction/preface is in all of the campaign books (analogous to the original run of black books) for HH2. I'm not sure where it has been "dropped", it's just not in the HH2 Rulebook where it would have questionable validity anyway, since the lore there is presented in a "word of god" fashion. 

[BitsHammer]

Just now, Stitch5000 said:

Yes and the equivalent introduction/preface is in all of the campaign books (analogous to the original run of black books) for HH2. I'm not sure where it has been "dropped", it's just not in the HH2 Rulebook where it would have questionable validity anyway, since the lore there is presented in a "word of god" fashion. 

That was my whole point: the omniscient "word of god" style presentation used in the 2.0 books took away from the game. It's basically the same the same thing 40k did when it stopped presenting so many in-universe accounts in their codexes. It takes the game from feeling like you are playing in a real place that has history and conflicting viewpoints and makes it feel more like bland marketing. It pushes Black Library to basically carry the all of the themes and interesting nuance but fails to sell you those things in the game proper.

 

I mean this is how Betrayal starts:

 

 

I just don't get that kind of tone out of 40k anymore.

[Lord Marshal]

Behold, a rules preview. Advanced Characteristics specifically. There's a fair amount to read, so I won't dump it all here.

 

Wonder if that Initiative 1 on the Centurion is a typo, or it's related to his Power Maul and/or the Quickstart rules?

 

 

Edited Monday at 02:23 PM by Lord Marshal

[Stitch5000]

5 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

That was my whole point: the omniscient "word of god" style presentation used in the 2.0 books took away from the game. It's basically the same the same thing 40k did when it stopped presenting so many in-universe accounts in their codexes. It takes the game from feeling like you are playing in a real place that has history and conflicting viewpoints and makes it feel more like bland marketing. It pushes Black Library to basically carry the all of the themes and interesting nuance but fails to sell you those things in the game proper.

But the word of god presentation is only use din the Rulebook to present the fundamentals of the established lore? That's the sort of stuff people would be quite upset about changing or being presented in an alternative fashion. 

 

[BitsHammer]

Cliff otes version of the article:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Fire Golem]

Assuming I1 on the Centurion is a typo. 

[Mogger351]

I understand what they're going for, I just dont like some of the application.

[Nephaston]

Charonite ogryn when they get a roll of 2 on an intelligence check

 

I do like what I see so far, but waiting is as usual killing me

[SkimaskMohawk]

Artificer seems to be gone if that seargent is any indicator. It also only has 1 attack, which could mean he's just there for leadership and a slightly better set of options in the tac squad. Centurion at 3 wounds is new too. Wonder if that's to avoid getting pasted by new damage stats.

 

Not sure how i feel about the rage ogryn being even less capable than a robo-zombie with int (maybe the priests build in some basic functions?), but i am a fan of making broader use of the LD stats, and going past 10 instead of just slapping fearless on and calling it a day. While you still auto pass with the higher stats, the opponent can modify them down into failure territory, which is always good.

Edited Monday at 02:44 PM by SkimaskMohawk

[Mogger351]

I understand what they're going for, I just dont like some of the application.

[SalamandersBro]

Man. They nerfed Vulkans invulnerable save to a 4+?..... i already rolled enough 1's and 2's. ....

[Nephaston]

28 minutes ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

Artificer seems to be gone if that seargent is any indicator. It also only has 1 attack, which could mean he's just there for leadership and a slightly better set of options in the tac squad. Centurion at 3 wounds is new too. Wonder if that's to avoid getting pasted by new damage stats.

Seeing as artificer is an option one has to buy, it not being hard baked into the profile makes sense. Not to mention the possibility of these being beta rules, box included rules, or, looking at the centurions initiative perhaps a typo.

[LSM]

2 hours ago, 01RTB01 said:

 

Seeing a hyper dynamic model of Julius would be great to see. He could have a dual pack of himself in terminator armour and mkiv. Pipe dream perhaps but would be fun. 

 

An aside, but: is Kaesoran depicted in MkIV in Fulgrim? My main recollection of him was in TDA (and certainly that seems to be what he's wearing in later stories). Lexicanum has an image of him in PA (sourced to The Horus Heresy Legions), but the same image appears on page 108 of Collected Visions Vol I with the caption "Kuller-Hal - David Hudnut". (I have no idea who Kuller-Hal is, or if he's ever appeared in anything else.) Whereas page 120 of the same book has the below image with the caption "Kaesoran - Franz Vohwinkel".

 

 

(There is a second image on Lexicanum, in ~MkVII, attributed to Collected Visions page 194, but the copy I have has art of Salamanders and Raven Guard on that page.)

 

//

 

Which is to say, if they're going to include variants of Kaesoran I'd like it if they went with pre/post-Isstvan V bits. Pre, as above, and then post: armour covered in flayed skin and jagged spikes, his face a mess of grafted tissue, horn implants, and bulging eyes.

 

(Or just a Siege-era Eidolon model, after he's gone full Noise Marine.)

[BitsHammer]

11 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

Seeing as artificer is an option one has to buy, it not being hard baked into the profile makes sense. Not to mention the possibility of these being beta rules, box included rules, or, looking at the centurions initiative perhaps a typo.

If the Centurion's stats are from the quick start guide they may be accounting for the mace.

 

Or be a typo. I am just happy to see they put thought into the new system and while a majority will be seeing those baseline 7s thanks to playing a Legion the system is adding more value to different characters which is good.

Edited Monday at 03:21 PM by BitsHammer

[Son of Rawl]

Does this mean "Fearless" is no longer in the game? As it sounds like you can break a Primarchs morale and potential sweep them...if that's still in the game 

[Lord Marshal]

Looking at the assembled Space Wolf army is interesting. It could mean nothing, and just a showcase of models, but there's 3 LoW there (Russ, Mastadon, Typhon) and at least 4 Heavy Support (two HSS, Leviathan, Spartan) if by some miracle the Saturnine Dreadnought isn't Heavy Support as well.

 

[Mogger351]

5 minutes ago, Son of Rawl said:

Does this mean "Fearless" is no longer in the game? As it sounds like you can break a Primarchs morale and potential sweep them...if that's still in the game 

Possibly not, but if it is then there are likely 4 variants of it.

[Marshal Rohr]

Very excited by these rules. It’s gonna be incredibly narrative and hopefully won’t slow the game up too much. 

1 minute ago, Lord Marshal said:

Looking at the assembled Space Wolf army is interesting. It could mean nothing, and just a showcase of models, but there's 3 LoW there (Russ, Mastadon, Typhon) and at least 4 Heavy Support (two HSS, Leviathan, Spartan) if by some miracle the Saturnine Dreadnought isn't Heavy Support as well.

 

I believe that’s Spiky James whole collection. 

[arnesh88]

1 hour ago, Lord Marshal said:

Wonder if that Initiative 1 on the Centurion is a typo, or it's related to his Power Maul and/or the Quickstart rules?

Almost definitely a typo. If it were the Power Maul, that would reflect on it's "IM" stat for the weapon profile.

[MARK0SIAN]

19 minutes ago, Son of Rawl said:

Does this mean "Fearless" is no longer in the game? As it sounds like you can break a Primarchs morale and potential sweep them...if that's still in the game 

It looks like fearless is gone but it also means that Primarchs are no longer immune to having their stats modified. Not sure how I feel about that, doesn’t seem very fluffy for a Primarch to flee. The Khan (from his point of view) literally commits suicide to kill Mortarion and Sanguinius allowed Angron to run a sword through him just to get close enough to kill him then merrily traipsed off to face Horus Ascended. 

[jaxom]

3 minutes ago, MARK0SIAN said:

The Khan

who probably has a Cool of 20; he’s so cool you could store a ice cream in him.

[Stitch5000]

13 minutes ago, MARK0SIAN said:

It looks like fearless is gone but it also means that Primarchs are no longer immune to having their stats modified. Not sure how I feel about that, doesn’t seem very fluffy for a Primarch to flee. The Khan (from his point of view) literally commits suicide to kill Mortarion and Sanguinius allowed Angron to run a sword through him just to get close enough to kill him then merrily traipsed off to face Horus Ascended. 

Yet both Vulkan and Corax (at least attempt to) retreat from the field at Isstvan 5... Breaking contact doesn't always mean "fleeing in fear". 

Edited Monday at 03:57 PM by Stitch5000

[MARK0SIAN]

7 minutes ago, Stitch5000 said:

Yet both Vulkan and Corax (at least attempt to) retreat from the field at Isstvan 5... Breaking contact doesn't always mean "fleeing in fear". 

But both those actions were a choice they made. The player won’t get to choose between a sensible retreat or a last stand. Taking away that agency from a player when they’re supposed to be playing a mythical hero is just not fun or thematic. And it’ll especially suck if sweeping advance is still a thing. 
 

 

[BitsHammer]

32 minutes ago, MARK0SIAN said:

It looks like fearless is gone but it also means that Primarchs are no longer immune to having their stats modified. Not sure how I feel about that, doesn’t seem very fluffy for a Primarch to flee. The Khan (from his point of view) literally commits suicide to kill Mortarion and Sanguinius allowed Angron to run a sword through him just to get close enough to kill him then merrily traipsed off to face Horus Ascended. 

It's not fleeing. It's advancing in reverse.