Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Marshal Mittens]

16 hours ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

My local HH players are split so far on the new edition. Two of them are looking forward to it, the other two...not much.

 

I have no real strong opinion as I didn't get any games in of 2.0. 

 

Every edition some people say they won't play it and will stick with the old, but 95% of players end up playing the new stuff. 

[Unknown Legionnaire]

30 minutes ago, Marshal Mittens said:

Every edition some people say they won't play it and will stick with the old, but 95% of players end up playing the new stuff. 

 

Of course. Because game stores, clubs and / or 'official' tournaments most often require them to do so.

 

When people play older editions of a game, they tend to do so at home with (a circle of) friends.

 

 

[TheTrans]

9 minutes ago, Unknown Legionnaire said:

 

Of course. Because game stores, clubs and / or 'official' tournaments most often require them to do so.

 

When people play older editions of a game, they tend to do so at home with (a circle of) friends.

 

 

Just 'build it' and they will come! Running another 3rd Ed (40k) event this year with 32 players again. 

Problem though I'll say is you need some 'distance' between editions to get people to nostalgia in. Like when 3.0 drops, you'd havee a much better chance of getting people to come to a 1.0 event than a 2.0 event just by dint of time difference (and therefore preying upon nostalgia and rose tinted glasses).

[Unknown Legionnaire]

It is happening. The first 20 or so pics of rules are out.

For the love of me, even if it's only 20 pages ... I can't fathom how they managed to make the game more complicated in it's simplest rules.

[TheTrans]

How rough are the double page pics. almost impossible to read haha.

[Nephaston]

I presume it's on the famous "ocean of urine"?

Edit; it is indeed in the clover abyss, good ol' teegee, a verifiable hive of scum and villainy

Edited yesterday at 02:26 AM by Nephaston

[BitsHammer]

24 minutes ago, Unknown Legionnaire said:

It is happening. The first 20 or so pics of rules are out.

For the love of me, even if it's only 20 pages ... I can't fathom how they managed to make the game more complicated in it's simplest rules.

It's from the core rulebook so not the simplified quick start.

5 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

I presume it's on the famous "ocean of urine"?

Edit; it is indeed in the clover abyss, good ol' teegee, a verifiable hive of scum and villainy

I took it all and shared it on the 30k subreddit too so people won't have to go there but had to split it into two posts

[Marshal Loss]

Some initial points from the leaker:

• WS chart is the same as 2.0
• Units are restricted to 1 reaction a turn, and Interceptor is snap shots only (but these are mostly no longer 6s, BS affects snap shot score as well, but its still mostly 5s and 6s)
• Can't charge out of DS
• Vehicles: hull points up across the board. rhino went from 3 to 5. Glances and pens still exist, but glances strip no hull points, just roll on the now shorter VDT that just inflicts stunned, pinned, or suppressed. these last until you roll a repair roll (a 6) or get a battlesmith (x) roll to fix you up. pens are the only way to strip hull points and do so based on the damage value. no vdt for that.

Force org:

 

[TheTrans]

Rought breakdown for peeps
 

Ok from what I can glean from the potato picsL

 

 

Spoiler

Vehicles
(I can presume they still have AV)

Glancing Hit = D3 roll, they gain one of the new tactical suppression things
Penetrating Hit = Take saves/damage mitigation, then take X number of hull points off based on weapon damage

So Vehicles are nominally just like every infantry styled unit now, but will use a different to wound chart essentially

 

Flyers
Flyers don't cop statuses, they just auto-lose a hullpoint if glanced.
Flyers only have a single armour value that is used
Flyers cant react
Stay in a special "Aerial Reserve" they can do specific attack runs and stuff, then return to reserve. I presume there will be a 'troop deploy' attack run available 
I think ' Combat Assignments' are the flyer missions
Strike Mission: Enter from reserves, snap shot centreline guns. Moves as normal (Can be intercepted (snapshot only) and CAP'd), leaves at end of shooting phase
Strafing Run: Enters from reserves, intercept isn't snap shots, move up to half, can be CAP'd, fires all weapons, leaves at end of shooting phase
Drop Mission: Rest too blurry
Extraction Mission: Rest too blurry
Advanced Reaction : CAP (too blurry)

USRs
Shred (x) is +1 Damage on X
Critical (x) is auto wound (counting as the roll of a 6) and +1 Damage on to hit X
Deepstrike: Hybrid of 1.0 and 2.0. Only 1 unit per turn, doesn't seem to scatter, but all models need to deploy within 6" of first model. Can't move or charge.
Bulky (x): Same
Heavy (X) what we've seen. Nothing about snap shooting etc.
Hatred (X) +1 to wound (x) models
Firing Protocals (X): Same
Force (X): Will power check if passed (X) is doubled, (damage, AP etc)

Reactions:
Blurry as all hell, can definitely still see intercept, overwatch, reposition, return fire
Advanced Reactions: Death or Glory, intercept Evade, Heroic Intervention and Japenese Pornography apparently
Heroic Intervention (looks to allow challenges)

 

Challenges
Pages are blurry, but looks to take up something like at leas 6 pages of explanation. (Also in list building, there are options to make a normal sarge a master sarge, who can challenge -_-)

Tactical Statuses 
Variety of rules that hit everyone that has any status (disorded charge always, -1 Inititive when fighting etc)

Charts
BS to hit chart, snap shots get easier based on BS, as well as B6 and above hits on 2+, while having a critical hit factor as well. BS10 Auto Hits, and Snap Shots on 2+

 

Battlefield Roles
15 of them
Warlord (Primarch)
High Command (Praetor?)
Command (Cents?)
Retinue
Elites
War Engines (dreads etc)
Troops
Support (?)
Lord of War...
Transport...
Heavy Assault (pic is a termy)
Heavy Transport (pic is a spartan)
Armour (pic is a pred)
Recon (pic is a recon marine)
Fast attack (pic is a jetbike or speeder)
LOW/Warlord share the 25% cap

Whole page on 'Prime slots' which allows you to upgrade models in the 'prime slot unit' like Make a master Sarge, combat veterans etc)

 

Edited yesterday at 02:47 AM by TheTrans
spoiler covered rules

[Unknown Legionnaire]

6 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

It's from the core rulebook so not the simplified quick start.

 

 

I didn't say otherwise. I merely stated they managed to complicate even the basic rules. 

[Marshal Rohr]

Looking good, let’s hope more comes out tomorrow 

[Marshal Loss]

Line is now Line (x), with (x) being the number of extra VPs a unit scores. So if a unit with Line (3) holds an objective worth 1 point, they'll score 4 in total instead. It also provides a bonus for a unit's ability to control objectives which sounds a bit like modern 40k. 

 

Great change and one I am really enthusiastic about. Line was one of the things I found most annoying about 2.0, this new iteration provides an incentive and reward for taking 'line' units but isn't going to punish you for not taking them (or result in some legions being garbage because their special units can't score for some reason, while others can). 

[TheTrans]

31 minutes ago, Marshal Loss said:

Line is now Line (x), with (x) being the number of extra VPs a unit scores. So if a unit with Line (3) holds an objective worth 1 point, they'll score 4 in total instead. It also provides a bonus for a unit's ability to control objectives which sounds a bit like modern 40k. 

 

Great change and one I am really enthusiastic about. Line was one of the things I found most annoying about 2.0, this new iteration provides an incentive and reward for taking 'line' units but isn't going to punish you for not taking them (or result in some legions being garbage because their special units can't score for some reason, while others can). 

Look that pretty much sums up the design language of 3.0 as far as I can read it.

They've removed all 'negative' aspects to decision making and replaced them by Good...or Better... options which I don't love.

One thing I loved about 3rd ed (40k, hate I have to do that now) is you had hard decisions.. Move a Heavy Weapon or Shoot.. Move your bros, or Shoot twie at 12" or 1 at 24" with your rapid fire weapons etc... 

Now like... you get your cake.. and if you don't move, you get to eat it too... and moves over to like line. Everything can score now... but line just scores better. 

There are no 'compulsory' units anymore... but if you fill out the 'prime slot' the unit/model gets better. 

Its starting to feel like the wargaming/listbuilding/decision making equivalent of everyone gets a participation award haha... 

No more hard-choice feel-bads for the masses..

Oh and you remove dead vehicles now, unless you use an opponenet agreed, optional rule... like :cuss:... 

[Brother Kraskor]

3 hours ago, Marshal Loss said:

• Can't charge out of DS
• Vehicles: hull points up across the board. rhino went from 3 to 5. Glances and pens still exist, but glances strip no hull points, just roll on the now shorter VDT that just inflicts stunned, pinned, or suppressed. these last until you roll a repair roll (a 6) or get a battlesmith (x) roll to fix you up. pens are the only way to strip hull points and do so based on the damage value. no vdt for that.

 

Terrible news for jump pack armies! And sounds like we lose Immobilised, Weapon Destroyed, and Explodes which is a shame. But the Glancing effects being permanent without a Battlesmith - sounds like Glancing will sometimes be preferable to Penning! Techmarines better get cheaper. 

[Marshal Loss]

I don't think Line is a good example of what you're describing, because its allocation in 2.0 was so arbitrary; some legions had rites that gave their special units line and the ability to score, and others didn't, with no consistent reasoning on display for why that was (whereas in 1.0, anything that was a troop - whether it originated there or moved because of a rite - was able to score). The 3.0 change is a net positive to me.

 

As for your broader observations, I sympathise as a fellow 3rd ed lover, but think it's a bit early to declare this the 'no more hard choice feel bads for the masses'. There's a lot of complexity on display and still a lot we haven't seen yet, so I'll withhold judgement. But with things like vehicle removal being an optional rule I trust the HH community to self-moderate

[Captain Idaho]

What's the source of the leaks? Would be nice to see the blurry pics 

[Marshal Loss]

7 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

What's the source of the leaks? Would be nice to see the blurry pics 

 

Here's an imgur link (credit to whoever pulled it together). It's missing a couple of things that I've seen elsewhere, e.g. the text for Line, but not much. The actual source is some guy on 4chan who bought one of the presumably stolen Saturnine boxes off eBay 

Edited yesterday at 07:41 AM by Marshal Loss

[Unknown Legionnaire]

As mentioned above, they're on /teegee

 

Not blurry at all.

 

Force Organisation is a convoluted bloody hot mess. 

 

 

[TheHaplessHeretic]

That force org looks needlessly over complicated imo.

[Gorgoff]

1 hour ago, Brother Kraskor said:

 

Terrible news for jump pack armies! And sounds like we lose Immobilised, Weapon Destroyed, and Explodes which is a shame. But the Glancing effects being permanent without a Battlesmith - sounds like Glancing will sometimes be preferable to Penning! Techmarines better get cheaper. 

If you roll the same status twice on the glancibg table the vehicle looses a hull point and explode is now a unit trait and if those units die they go boom.

Big BADBOOM by the way.

Always 6 ibch radius and always hits (number of starting hull points/wounds) strength 8. 

For the sake of having an example lets say a Deredeo has explode.

That'll be 6 hits in 6 inches. More BOOM more fun imho. 

1 hour ago, Marshal Loss said:

. But with things like vehicle removal being an optional rule I trust the HH community to self-moderate

I will not play against anyone who wants to remove sestroyed vehicles which didn't go BOOM.

Now, I've said it. 

 

FOC looking good. 

[sarabando]

deep joy /s

[Antarius]

So, what I'm gathering is that it's both being made too complicated and dumbed down for the Warhammer 40.000 kids 

 

Flippancy aside though, I get being apprehensive, but this always happens ahead of a new edition of anything. We don't really have the full picture yet, so let's keep from making grand announcements and see how things actually pan out - that's my advice, anyway.

 

Personally, there are things I think sound like definite improvements and things I'm much more apprehensive about, but there's a lot of details we still don't have, so I'm not going to fuss over it just yet.

[MoriyaSchism]

30 minutes ago, Marshal Loss said:

 

Here's an imgur link (credit to whoever pulled it together). It's missing a couple of things that I've seen elsewhere, e.g. the text for Line, but not much. The actual source is some guy on 4chan who bought one of the presumably stolen Saturnine boxes off eBay 

That Force Organization Chart is grotesque. Visually too. I'm not sure why they dropped the old icons in favour of the lame silhouettes. Bit of a nitpick on my end but they had a perfectly fine visual style before. Reminds me of what they did with the Liber covers for 3.0. 

[Joe]

Force Organisation doesn't look particularly complicated - it'll throw peoples Excel spreadsheets into a mess for a few days, but will resolve itself pretty shortly after.

 

Any concerns about netlisting / people bringing overtly disgusting army lists to events are, as always, the responsibility of the event organisers to deal with ahead of time. If they can't manage that they shouldn't be running events.

[StratoKhan]

10 minutes ago, Joe said:

Force Organisation doesn't look particularly complicated - it'll throw peoples Excel spreadsheets into a mess for a few days, but will resolve itself pretty shortly after.

 

Any concerns about netlisting / people bringing overtly disgusting army lists to events are, as always, the responsibility of the event organisers to deal with ahead of time. If they can't manage that they shouldn't be running events.

Can you elaborate on it not being complicated? I’ve looked at it this morning and at first glance it seems more complex than what came before.
 

Maybe it’s just because it’s unfamiliar so it feels complex, but I’d be interested in better understanding the perspective of someone who looked at it and thought “actually, that’s all right”.