Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Lord Marshal]

I also wouldn't be shocked if there's extra Detachments inside the actual Libers which are more flexible with what you can bring.

 

17 minutes ago, Nagashsnee said:

I will withold judgement untill i get my books and see how easy it work in practise.

 

But sweet Emperor they are not even pretending its not a purely made for marine players game anymore. 

 

'Yes you see we took away the army neutral symbols from FOC and replaced it all with space marine specific artwork'. Such a weird choice. 

 

Tbf weren't those same symbols Space Marine squad markings that no other Imperial faction used?

 

Edited yesterday at 02:41 PM by Lord Marshal

[firestorm40k]

1 minute ago, The boater said:

Yes, in order to bring all the additional stuff, you now have a centurion tax. So you gotta build like 2 more single guys to make you collect fully work

Nice  Well, I have no intention to add any more Centurion - I was only going to go for a Praetor and (a counts-as) Sigismund, I have no desire whatsoever to build and paint any more Centurions. Brilliant, thanks GW - what a truly flexible system you've introduced..! 

[arnesh88]

7 minutes ago, firestorm40k said:

So, based on this article, I can't use the (just over) 2,000 points of Imperial Fists I've got painted, as it's not legal 

 

I've only got one HQ built and painted, a Castellan, so that denies me access to additional Auxiliary slots,unless I use that 'prime' bonus thing to give me an additional one. 

 

So I have to choose between my Contemptor, 2 Cataphractii, Tactical Support Squad, or either of the Heavy Support squads I've got. 

 

That doesn't sound like list building is more flexible than it ever was, GW! 

 

Unless someone can explain this to me better than GW's writers, but it looks like I've got to add stuff I didn't necessarily want to, in order to get the Auxiliary slots just so I can use what I've already got 

Okay, making your list assuming Tactical Support Squads and Heavy Support Squads are Support Battlefield Roles

Turn your Castellan to a Centurion (non-Consul) and you can do it:

- Centurion (2 Auxiliary Detachments allowed + Primary Slot)

- Primary Advantage: Contemptor Dreadnought

- Shock Assault Detachement: 2 Squads of Terminators

- Tactical Support Detachment: 1 Tactical Support Squad and 1 Heavy Support Squad

 

[roryokane]

3 minutes ago, Lord Marshal said:

I also wouldn't be shocked if there's extra Detachments inside the actual Libers which are more flexible with what you can bring.

 

 

Tbf weren't those same symbols Space Marine squad markings?

 

Yes but it was still an abstraction. I get the sentiment.

[Lord Marshal]

3 minutes ago, firestorm40k said:

Nice  Well, I have no intention to add any more Centurion - I was only going to go for a Praetor and (a counts-as) Sigismund, I have no desire whatsoever to build and paint any more Centurions. Brilliant, thanks GW - what a truly flexible system you've introduced..! 

 

FWIW Optae's may still be a thing, which is basically a regular Veteran Marine told "you're in a command position now lol good luck" and only came in at 40pts this edition (iirc), if you don't want lots of fancy Centurions running around.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 02:44 PM by Lord Marshal

[firestorm40k]

8 minutes ago, arnesh88 said:

Turn your Castellan to a Centurion (non-Consul) and you can do it

Alas he won't get to use his Autocannon then 

 

...and that's assuming that Castellans are still a thing in this edition..! 

Edited yesterday at 02:49 PM by firestorm40k

[Irate Khornate]

The force organization chart is giving me a weird age of sigmar detachment vibe.

 

Not a really big fan of having an HQ tax. I don't want to spend 400 points on HQ units just so I can bring a dreadnought, a tank, and a unit of terminators in the same list. 

 

I really do not like having a pool of reaction points and especially do not like there being warlord traits that modify said pool. Didn't like reactions and second edition and definitely don't like them now.

 

I understand the loss of assault after deep strike, but my warmonger and world eaters are very sad to lose it. 

 

Also  man that is a lot of word salad in that rule book. 

[Marshal Rohr]

At minimum you’ve gotta take three command models to build the starter box from 2.0. One commander to unlock Cataphractii, one to unlock the Contemptor, one to unlock the Spartan. If you use logistical benefit for both prime slots you’ve gotta take only a single command model to unlock the box. 

[Brother Sutek]

On 6/10/2025 at 1:55 AM, Brother Kraskor said:

Maybe I've misunderstood you, but that's not how it works currently anyway? Excess unsaved wounds after you've killed your challenge opponent don't spill over, they just count toward combat resolution. 

Sorry for wait on reply double shifts at work took my energy.  The current edition is the unsaved to to combat resolution and I'm good with that. I am referencing 1st where the extra wounds could take out the enemy squad. Losing that was great and I hated it as it removed the cost of dueling. The part in this edition that I was referring to was if you are a lone character and fighting a character in a unit then then if there are no other friendly models the enemy can target your character even though they are in a duel. I wasn't clear in my last post and that's on me. 

[The boater]

19 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

At minimum you’ve gotta take three command models to build the starter box from 2.0. One commander to unlock Cataphractii, one to unlock the Contemptor, one to unlock the Spartan. If you use logistical benefit for both prime slots you’ve gotta take only a single command model to unlock the box. 

Not really… one commander ran as a centurion gives you two auxiliary detachments and then you can logistics in the third non core unit, and you HAD to take one of them before anyway

Edited yesterday at 03:30 PM by The boater

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, BitsHammer said:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/itpl4ywx/rules-in-the-age-of-darkness-how-to-build-an-army-in-the-new-edition/

 

Looking at the article, I wonder what counts as "troops" now. Like where do bikes and assault marines go in this FOC? 

 

And I just needed to keep reading as they translate a modern list into the new list:

 

Assault Squad you can see was placed in a Troop Slot (Prime) in the Crusade Primary Detachment. Bikes go in Combat Pioneer detachment.

Jetbikes go in First Strike detachment.

 

My actual thoughts on what all this means for list building will be later when I’ve more time to think on it.

[MoriyaSchism]

51 minutes ago, Lord Marshal said:

Tbf weren't those same symbols Space Marine squad markings that no other Imperial faction used?

 

Yeah, they really made it army neutral this time with a Rogal Dorn silhouette to represent a Warlord. 

[Lord_Valorion]

The charge rules were also leaked and they are....completely different. So much for "the same game you know and love".

 

You basically make a "Setup-move" (which is determined by "Ini+Move characteristic" and then consulting a table to see which Setup move value correspons to the solution of this equation. For example a tac marine has ini 4 + move 7 = 11, which corresponds to a Setup move value of 3").

 

Then you throw 2 d6 and take the higher one.

 

So it is Setupmove + higher of 2 d6.

A tac marine can charge between 4 and 9" (3" Setup + d6).

[Corswain]

Force-Org seems weird. Maybe it will make sense when I sit down an actually build an army list.

 

Feels like an "it ain't broke so lets fix it," scenario.

 

Right now it just seems like a very good way to sell more FW consul models.

[Astartes Consul]

Yeah, we can't fully appreciate how this works without knowing what units are in what category yet, can we? The bit about Legion Special units in particular. I imagine Justaerian Terminators will need their own detachment,  but what about Grey Hunters/Slayers? I can't imagine *all* the current Legion special units will be treated as specialist units.

 

Edit:

 

Although is does appear that the High Command / Apex Detachment mechanic will effectively kill off Command Squads?

Edited yesterday at 03:38 PM by Astartes Consul

[Lord Marshal]

7 minutes ago, MoriyaSchism said:

Yeah, they really made it army neutral this time with a Rogal Dorn silhouette to represent a Warlord. 

 

I'm not claiming the new ones are neutral though? Only that the previous icons weren't neutral either - people just got used to seeing them used for everything from Imperial Guard to Eldar to Tyranid ForgeOrg Charts that people forgot they're Space Marine symbols.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 03:39 PM by Lord Marshal

[Elzender]

7 minutes ago, Astartes Consul said:

Yeah, we can't fully appreciate how this works without knowing what units are in what category yet, can we? The bit about Legion Special units in particular. I imagine Justaerian Terminators will need their own detachment,  but what about Grey Hunters/Slayers? I can't imagine *all* the current Legion special units will be treated as specialist units.

 

I would not be surprised if SW got a legion-specific detachment for their special line units.

 

As for legion special units, maybe there will be a Pride of the Legion-equivalent detachment to represent Legion First Companies/elite detachments?

[Marshal Mittens]

1 hour ago, SkimaskMohawk said:

When i read Marshall loss' initial bullets i got really excited because it seemed like we were partially going back to 5ths glance/pen dynamic of suppression on glances and chance to kill on pens. But it really is more like modern 40k instead. No chance of instant kills and more "wounds" to burn down. Kinda really enjoyed the 5th style instead of the 8th...

 

Most Marines have 1W, and D2 is basically ID, which most weapons that would ID a marine before will do D2+ now, so functionally the same in most situations, in my opinion.

 

 

BT

 

I am excited to be able to take like 120 Tactical Marines and 60 Tactical Support Marines, backed up by 20 HSS Marines.

 

I think when I move again and get my man cave back next year, I want to do a SoH 1st Company force with a core of 40 Tacticals supported by Justarian and Reavers to fight a massive infantry based Stormwing force. 

Edited yesterday at 03:50 PM by Marshal Mittens

[MARK0SIAN]

Absurd complexity for less freedom than you got in the previous version when using rites. At least they only tended to specify one particular type of consul. None of my existing lists ever featured more than 2 hq models. I don’t want to have to sink so many points into centurions just to put a list together. 

[Cadmus Tyro]

I might be reading this incorrectly, but for each prime slot you fill, you get access to another auxiliary detachment. 
 

So if you take a primary detachment, and take a standard centurion and a troops choice, that unlocks x3 Auxiliary slots.

 

If I take a high command slot and then an apex detachment, the prime veteran slot unlocks another auxiliary detachment. 
 

So something like this:

 

Praetor 

Veteran squad (prime slot) 

Leviathan dreadnought (logistical benefit) 

 

Centurion (unlocks two Auxiliary detachments) 

Assault squad (unlocks a further auxiliary detachment) 

x 3 contemptors 

 

Centurion - chaplain consul 

Assault squad 

Spartan 

Terminator squad. 
 

So a HQ tax, and it feels unnecessarily complex, but arguably more thematic in that it follows the old black books command structure fluff and centurions actually have a use. 
 

Still not sold on 3.0, but there’s still a lot of unanswered questions. 
 

This is definitely not the game we know. 
 

Cadmus 

 

[The boater]

9 minutes ago, MARK0SIAN said:

Absurd complexity for less freedom than you got in the previous version when using rites. At least they only tended to specify one particular type of consul. None of my existing lists ever featured more than 2 hq models. I don’t want to have to sink so many points into centurions just to put a list together. 

I don’t get this, a praetor and a centurion gives you almost the original FoC, what list are you bringing that can’t fit into this without adding one maybe two) models

[Ripper.McGuirl]

So I can see if I have this right: a basic primary detachment with one Centurion has access potentially for 3 auxiliary detachments. 1 is unlocked by a command choice, 1 is unlocked by choosing that prime benefit, and 1 specifically from Centurions. Next you can grab another one by taking a single troop choice, which so far we know could be assault or tactical squads, and choosing the same prime benefit.

aka

A Centurion, an assault squad, and 16 land raiders is perfectly legal right off the bat?

Less jokingly, a pretty reasonable combined arms or fairly specialized list could be made with a single centurion.

[jaxom]

We don't know what the other Primary Detachments are. Legion-specific ones are going to be in Liber Astartes ala Rites of War. There may even be Astartes specific ones not in the core rulebook.

 

 

[Misterduch]

Hol up.

 

So I can cram 4 land raiders and 4 rhinos in an armored fist, or maybe even Spartans depending on exact classifications, but 1, singular, dreadnought will take up an entire detachment, while also being one shottabke by a meltagun in half range?

 

What? I assumed we'd still have talons in which case its be fine but jezus.

 

Also the fact that legion specific specialists are locked behind the apex vanguard detachment is just...why? Does GW really think vets in 3.0 are going to be so good that poeple will ever take them over their legion toys?

 

Also me if I want a command squad and some pyroclasts 

 

Maybe the libers and tbe legio rules will have more flexible detachments/ways to manipulate them? 

 

Edited yesterday at 04:10 PM by Misterduch

[jaxom]

2 minutes ago, Ripper.McGuirl said:

So I can see if I have this right: a basic primary detachment with one Centurion has access potentially for 3 auxiliary detachments. 1 is unlocked by a command choice, 1 is unlocked by choosing that prime benefit, and 1 specifically from Centurions. Next you can grab another one by taking a single troop choice, which so far we know could be assault or tactical squads, and choosing the same prime benefit.

Primary Detachment + 2 Secondary Detachments (Centurion) + 2 Additional Slots (Centurion - Prime: Logistical Benefit and Troop - Prime: Logistical Benefit).