Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[Fire Golem]

10 minutes ago, Bradeh said:

 

Pretty sure it's two completely different rules. The strength of a hit has nothing to do with Gets Hot, maybe the rule has changed completely. 

 

It does specify that that rule is what protects you from your own plasma weapon specifically. I think Overload does work differently to how Gets Hot did yeah. 

[Doobles57]

11 minutes ago, Fire Golem said:

It does specify that that rule is what protects you from your own plasma weapon specifically. I think Overload does work differently to how Gets Hot did yeah. 

Possible that Overload causes a hit on the bearer rather than a wound now? So lowering the strength on hits from it's own plasma as well as your opponents would matter then? Just a guess.

[Nephaston]

20 minutes ago, Bradeh said:

Another cheeky note is that the AP3 template Particle Shredder that comes with the Termies isn't included in the box for the Dread. 

 

Presumably these are included in the Grav/Inversion kit. Or maybe even just using the bits from the terminators if going for any of the fist-less configurations.

[Fire Golem]

3 minutes ago, Nephaston said:

 

Presumably these are included in the Grav/Inversion kit. Or maybe even just using the bits from the terminators if going for any of the fist-less configurations.

Yeah they come with the other weapons:

[Gorgoff]

2 hours ago, Jarl of Wulfen said:

Interesting that the grav pulverizer is considered plasma not grav.  Typo?

Typo.

They changed it in the mean time.

[Captain Idaho]

1 hour ago, BitsHammer said:

Honestly I'm just sad there isn't a new Volkite thing for it. And I don't think you're wrong about the points spread but honestly I look at it and think less "which is the strongest option for points" and more "what would Night Lords be most likely to equip one of these with?" Sure we can chase the meta but I'm constantly being told that 30k is supposed to be the narrative driven game and I personally would like to lean into that.

 

Narrative play is hurt even more. If you invest into the game an expensive Saturnine Dreadnought with dual Disintegrators because your theme is Destroyers, then you come up against a Saturnine Dreadnought with dual Graviton Pulverisers for just 20pts more... then he wipes the floor with your choice and this is repeated every week because you've used too many points in broken choices for theme...

 

...how much fun will you really have?

 

23 minutes ago, Doobles57 said:

Possible that Overload causes a hit on the bearer rather than a wound now? So lowering the strength on hits from it's own plasma as well as your opponents would matter then? Just a guess.

 

They explained previously that Overload results is your weapon hitting your own unit. So Disintegrators are death traps with no place on expensive models like Saturnine Dreadnoughts and Terminators. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Captain Idaho

[SalamandersBro]

I don't know about anyone else. I appreciate the icons in the upper left on the datasheets. Now i won't get confused on the images for the force organization chart.

[Gorgoff]

9 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

Narrative play is hurt even more. If you invest into the game an expensive Saturnine Dreadnought with dual Disintegrators because your theme is Destroyers, then you come up against a Saturnine Dreadnought with dual Graviton Pulverisers for just 20pts more... then he wipes the floor with your choice and this is repeated every week because you've used too many points in broken choices for theme...

 

...how much fun will you really have?

Most people play a different army list in every game so I don't aee the problem. 

[Vassakov]

1 minute ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

Narrative play is hurt even more. If you invest into the game an expensive Saturnine Dreadnought with dual Disintegrators because your theme is Destroyers, then you come up against a Saturnine Dreadnought with dual Graviton Pulverisers for just 20pts more... then he wipes the floor with your choice and this is repeated every week because you've used too many points in broken choices for theme...

 

...how much fun will you really have?

 

 

But you should probably be building a balanced overall force, no? Like, we can get all up on X unit with guns equipped for targeting Y will be very one sided, but part of the game is (or at least should be) making sure your army is capable of responding to different threats and then trying to fight on favourable terms with your opponent. AP2 is also nothing to sneeze at, it's clearly an Anti-Terminator/Artificer option. Also, take it from someone with Mhara Gal Dreadnoughts - BS3/4 3" blasts are not reliable at hitting more than a couple of models.

 

And if your point is that if you take a very themed list, you may well run into a bad match up... yes? That's always been the case hasn't it? 

[jaxom]

1 hour ago, Bradeh said:

 

They said the Thermal Field mitigates Overload damage, just have to find out in what way. 

 

32 minutes ago, Doobles57 said:

Possible that Overload causes a hit on the bearer rather than a wound now? So lowering the strength on hits from it's own plasma as well as your opponents would matter then? Just a guess.

^That is correct.

[Marshal Rohr]

16 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

Narrative play is hurt even more. If you invest into the game an expensive Saturnine Dreadnought with dual Disintegrators because your theme is Destroyers, then you come up against a Saturnine Dreadnought with dual Graviton Pulverisers for just 20pts more... then he wipes the floor with your choice and this is repeated every week because you've used too many points in broken choices for theme...

 

...how much fun will you really have?

 

 

They explained previously that Overload results is your weapon hitting your own unit. So Disintegrators are death traps with no place on expensive models like Saturnine Dreadnoughts and Terminators. 

Your double disintegrators have 6 inches on the GraviSat, so you can back pedal away and peel his wounds off if the other person is trying to do a Sattie duel. The Saturnine actually looks more balanced than I thought it would be. It would’ve been very easy to make that grab weapon 24 inches or the Inversion Beamer an auto take. 

Edited 4 hours ago by Marshal Rohr

[Captain Idaho]

The rules for weapons new Saturnine Dreadnoughts and Terminators are poor and I won't be buying the new boxed set because of it. I have no need and won't buy something with money I can't afford just because "narrative".

 

And if I don't like something or buy it, that means other people won't...

 

15 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Your double disintegrators have 6 inches on the GraviSat, so you can back pedal away and peel his wounds off if the other person is trying to do a Sattie duel. The Saturnine actually looks more balanced than I thought it would be. It would’ve been very easy to make that grab weapon 24 inches or the Inversion Beamer an auto take. 

 

The double Disintegrator Saturnine Dreadnought fires 4 shots that Overload every 1-2 with a S9 hit and D3! Roll some dice and simulate a 4 turn game and see how much damage it takes just from itself.

 

17 minutes ago, Vassakov said:

 

But you should probably be building a balanced overall force, no? Like, we can get all up on X unit with guns equipped for targeting Y will be very one sided, but part of the game is (or at least should be) making sure your army is capable of responding to different threats and then trying to fight on favourable terms with your opponent. AP2 is also nothing to sneeze at, it's clearly an Anti-Terminator/Artificer option. Also, take it from someone with Mhara Gal Dreadnoughts - BS3/4 3" blasts are not reliable at hitting more than a couple of models.

 

What's balanced about a 340pts model that can't kill much because it has double Heavy Plasma bombards, or heavy Disintegrators that kills it every game and makes it weak to being finished off by enemy fire?

 

If you want AP4 weapons, take heavy bolters on something. If you want AP2 S9 weapons, take Lascannons that won't kill you every game when you're 340pts.

[Bradeh]

How about we get some test games in first with all the rules at our disposal before chucking wobblys? This level of analysis doesn't do anyone any favours.

 

Heresy meant to be the more adult game.  

Edited 4 hours ago by Bradeh

[Mogger351]

14 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

The rules for weapons new Saturnine Dreadnoughts and Terminators are poor and I won't be buying the new boxed set because of it. I have no need and won't buy something with money I can't afford just because "narrative".

 

And if I don't like something or buy it, that means other people won't...

 

 

The double Disintegrator Saturnine Dreadnought fires 4 shots that Overload every 1-2 with a S9 hit and D3! Roll some dice and simulate a 4 turn game and see how much damage it takes just from itself.

 

 

What's balanced about a 340pts model that can't kill much because it has double Heavy Plasma bombards, or heavy Disintegrators that kills it every game and makes it weak to being finished off by enemy fire?

 

If you want AP4 weapons, take heavy bolters on something. If you want AP2 S9 weapons, take Lascannons that won't kill you every game when you're 340pts.

Come on, its been shown that matched play (lol) games are 4 turns as standard somewhere iirc.

 

So that's 16 shots with 2 disintegrators as a maximum output whole game. Of those, 5 and a bit overload. Of those, we can round up to 3 wounds, 1.5 saved, it's taken off half its health over the course of a full game in the unlikely scenario it fires full whack all game.

 

In return, whilst im not sure what the secondary weapons do, if we massage the maths using them and assuming terminators are a 5++ (not sure if its been seen?) It will take out a unit of terminators.

 

That sounds tame based on the exchange rate in 40k, but the numbers aren't worse than a unit of 10 lascannons using my fingers for maths. (I have fingers and can use a keyboard, so obviously my intelligence stat is high)

9 minutes ago, Bradeh said:

How about we get some test games in first with all the rules at our disposal before chucking wobblys? This level of analysis doesn't do anyone any favours.

 

Heresy meant to be the more adult game.  

Not sure i agree with adult. Just different audience.

[Captain Idaho]

We heard that from people when 40K released 10th and Eldar were broken as hell, then those same people tried to tell us the evidence of Eldar and our own experience was wrong... then GW changed Eldar several times and those same people were happy GW did that because they know what they're doing.

 

So throwing implied insults about from a position of superiority, that "it's supposed to be adult game" does nothing to prove a point.

 

Indeed, it's being mature and understanding the rules dynamic that enables us to see where the game mistakes are.

[Captain Idaho]

1 minute ago, Mogger351 said:

Come on, its been shown that matched play (lol) games are 4 turns as standard somewhere iirc.

 

So that's 16 shots with 2 disintegrators as a maximum output whole game. Of those, 5 and a bit overload. Of those, we can round up to 3 wounds, 1.5 saved, it's taken off half its health over the course of a full game in the unlikely scenario it fires full whack all game.

 

So good odds it'll lose 3-6 wounds every game from itself on average...

 

That's awful! It only has 8 wounds and costs 340pts!

[Marshal Rohr]

20 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

The rules for weapons new Saturnine Dreadnoughts and Terminators are poor and I won't be buying the new boxed set because of it. I have no need and won't buy something with money I can't afford just because "narrative".

 

And if I don't like something or buy it, that means other people won't...

 

 

The double Disintegrator Saturnine Dreadnought fires 4 shots that Overload every 1-2 with a S9 hit and D3! Roll some dice and simulate a 4 turn game and see how much damage it takes just from itself.

 

 

What's balanced about a 340pts model that can't kill much because it has double Heavy Plasma bombards, or heavy Disintegrators that kills it every game and makes it weak to being finished off by enemy fire?

 

If you want AP4 weapons, take heavy bolters on something. If you want AP2 S9 weapons, take Lascannons that won't kill you every game when you're 340pts.

Overload is just a hit, you still do wounds and saves. 

[Captain Idaho]

3 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Overload is just a hit, you still do wounds and saves. 

 

Yep. Try rolling it out, 4 shots a turn for 4 turns and see how much damage it causes. 

[Mogger351]

4 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

So good odds it'll lose 3-6 wounds every game from itself on average...

 

That's awful! It only has 8 wounds and costs 340pts!

Im sort of coming round to your way of thinking, simply because it's preferred prey are also rocking Invulns.

[Captain Idaho]

3 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Im sort of coming round to your way of thinking, simply because it's preferred prey are also rocking Invulns.

 

Yeah!

 

And I'm very much of the theme of wanting a Destoyer themed Dread with illegal and shaded weapons like disintegrators!

 

[Marshal Rohr]

4 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

Yep. Try rolling it out, 4 shots a turn for 4 turns and see how much damage it causes. 

I got two Overloads in four turns and only

wounded once and saved it. It’s risky, but it’s not Moritat with Disintegrators risky

[Captain Idaho]

Just now, Marshal Rohr said:

I got two Overloads in four turns and only

wounded once and saved it. It’s risky, but it’s not Moritat with Disintegrators risky

 

Oh that was lucky, in that case it's the results we'll all get! 

[Misterduch]

How about giving it a break jfc. We don't even know how the thermal shielding thingy works with overload so doing some math and proclaiming that disintegrators with overload 2 are unusable is wild

Edited 3 hours ago by Misterduch

[CommissarXin]

Everyone is being soo negative when we have yet to have the full rules for everything. Just..be patient.

[Captain Idaho]

Games Workshop literally told us the rules, including how shielding works, in the article they published.