Horus Heresy New Edition, or Just Horus Hearsay?

[dicebod]

11 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Games Workshop literally told us the rules, including how shielding works, in the article they published.

Come on my guy. Writing out how something *generally* works is one thing, seeing the actual rule text is something else.

[CommissarXin]

And it's still in a vacuum. We do not have all the rules for the game. And even if it's not how people want it..that's ok.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

'All the new shiny cannons with the most uncreative names get AP 2 or 3 easily, even with blast !

 All the 'old' guns you loved and knew, we nerfed some more.'

 

Bravo, GW, bravo !  

[Mogger351]

6 minutes ago, dicebod said:

Come on my guy. Writing out how something *generally* works is one thing, seeing the actual rule text is something else.

The complaint was that given the information available, the dread is both not very effective into its chosen targets for the points and a liability to damage itself.

 

Those seem to be very sound conclusions even if you don't like them. Whilst GW giving a rule like overloads(2), whilst simultaneously giving it an immunity to said tailored rule, is very on form, it'd be an odd thing to wait for the full text to assume.

[Misterduch]

17 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

Games Workshop literally told us the rules, including how shielding works, in the article they published.

 

In that case I am sure you are able to tell me *exactly* what the numerical value for the reduction of RS is and exactly how it protects against overload damage....tough the latter is a weird topic atm because here it implies it only works for Plasma, when previous articles just mentioned overload in general which would include disintegrators and GW is constantly making typos in these articles so who knows

[SkimaskMohawk]

2 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

That's absolutely NOT what happened in practice for the old system. It made any T3 character without Eternal Warrior useless since a simple Plasma Gun knocked them out with just 1 unsaved wound, on top of making certain upgrades absolutely worthless. You couldn't go for Tzeentch Obliterators, for example, because the 4++ was less valuable than avoiding Instant Death. 

 

I think you meant "in concept" rather than "in practice". Characters were very hard to hit from range in old editions since they were embedded in units, hidden in transports, and often straight up untargetable via terrain. The occurence of a farseer getting gunned down by plasma or assault cannons were quite rare. And idk what you're talking about with obliterators, their t5 base made it extremely rare for them to be instant killed, making it much more valuable on the whole to take tzeentch.

[Captain Idaho]

15 minutes ago, Misterduch said:

 

In that case I am sure you are able to tell me *exactly* what the numerical value for the reduction of RS is and exactly how it protects against overload damage....tough the latter is a weird topic atm because here it implies it only works for Plasma, when previous articles just mentioned overload in general which would include disintegrators and GW is constantly making typos in these articles so who knows

 

It says "Whats more, the Saturnine boasts a thermal diffraction field that reduces the strength of weapons with the Las, Plasma, Melta and Flame traits."

 

The Disintegrators aren't any of those weapons. So the value of protection is irrelevant - Disintegrators aren't covered regardless.

 

Previous articles explained that Overload means you take the hit yourself.

 

A Saturnine Dreadnought being hit by S9 and damage 3 weapons that are AP2... ouchie. 

Edited 5 hours ago by Captain Idaho

[Dhar'Neth]

I wonder if Cathapractii terminators will be T5 and 5++. They seem to change up the rules a little bit.

[Brother Sutek]

48 minutes ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

Oh that was lucky, in that case it's the results we'll all get! 

 

49 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

I got two Overloads in four turns and only

wounded once and saved it. It’s risky, but it’s not Moritat with Disintegrators risky

I tried that once....once. He went out in a blaze, not so much glory. It was amusing but not suggested to do again.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

6 minutes ago, Dhar'Neth said:

I wonder if Cathapractii terminators will be T5 and 5++. They seem to change up the rules a little bit.

 

Yes, and they'll have a 2+ on 2D6 !

 

And if them silly tiny-minators can be T5, then my new Archmagos will surely be T7 ?  Puuleeeeease ?

[Astartes Consul]

18 minutes ago, Brother Sutek said:

 

I tried that once....once. He went out in a blaze, not so much glory. It was amusing but not suggested to do again.

Moritat’s blowing themselves up for now effect is a core part of what makes the game fun. 

[Gorgoff]

21 minutes ago, Dhar'Neth said:

I wonder if Cathapractii terminators will be T5 and 5++. They seem to change up the rules a little bit.

They are t4.

At least that was their value on a leaked pic I saw.

[Captain Idaho]

Ah well I can dream. I love Cataphractii. 

 

Also, I'm really looking forward to a double Graviton Pulveriser Saturnine Dreadnought... it can chonk forward and blat enemy armour quite nicely.

[Marshal Rohr]

24 minutes ago, Dhar'Neth said:

I wonder if Cathapractii terminators will be T5 and 5++. They seem to change up the rules a little bit.

Everything else has been nerfed, so I would not expect Terminators to get buffed, since they were a noticeable problem child unit. I would not be surprised if Terminators got to WS/BS 4/4 across generics and elites. 

[CommissarXin]

I just want the release announced so we get past the awkward phase of only having part rules and can play and test ourselves.

[Gorgoff]

17 minutes ago, Marshal Rohr said:

Everything else has been nerfed, so I would not expect Terminators to get buffed, since they were a noticeable problem child unit. I would not be surprised if Terminators got to WS/BS 4/4 across generics and elites. 

I dearly hope so.

Weapon skill 5 should be reserved for Custodes and characters. There are other ways to give unit and edge in close combat. Maybe give the leaders of soecial units WS5 and the champion rule.

[HeadlessCross]

4 hours ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

Retcon:

Dreadnought pilots are no longer selected from badly wounded veterans but from a program dubbed McNamara´s Morons. Either they are incapable of doing Calculus or they excel in Calculus although in the latter case they no longer are able to put their trousers on without help. 

 

Space Marine Bob: "This piece of junk is too stupid for war. It will never find it´s way back to base. So what is it doing all day?!"

Space Marine Joe: "The Saturnine Dreadnought can´t get lost as it patrols the base in circles. Hence it´s name."

Space Marine Bob: "!*$&%!

 

Every Saturnine Dread comes equipped with a Flintstones phone. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4Hft-fTHQWg&pp=ygUedGhlIHNpbXBzb25zIGZsaW50c3RvbmVzIHBob25l

[BitsHammer]

4 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

Narrative play is hurt even more. If you invest into the game an expensive Saturnine Dreadnought with dual Disintegrators because your theme is Destroyers, then you come up against a Saturnine Dreadnought with dual Graviton Pulverisers for just 20pts more... then he wipes the floor with your choice and this is repeated every week because you've used too many points in broken choices for theme...

 

...how much fun will you really have?

 

 

They explained previously that Overload results is your weapon hitting your own unit. So Disintegrators are death traps with no place on expensive models like Saturnine Dreadnoughts and Terminators. 

I feel like you are thinking of Narrative events but not the garagehammer style narrative where people talk out the narrative scenario they are playing through and self imposing limits for flavor over efficiency.

 

Like sure, in a vacuum anything can be bad, but most of us play with friends we should be talking to and not strangers who are bringing their most competitive lists.

 

And no, this isn't me saying that balance isn't important but rather that even if GW got the balance wrong we have ways of handling it like we have always have.

[kabaakaba]

19 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

I feel like you are thinking of Narrative events but not the garagehammer style narrative where people talk out the narrative scenario they are playing through and self imposing limits for flavor over efficiency.

 

Like sure, in a vacuum anything can be bad, but most of us play with friends we should be talking to and not strangers who are bringing their most competitive lists.

 

And no, this isn't me saying that balance isn't important but rather that even if GW got the balance wrong we have ways of handling it like we have always have.

I'm crying in happiness out of your words. If we have more ppl who think this way we would be in the awesome community. But we have to much people who even in friendly environment of narrative evening bring best of the best murderous hobos build. And very offended when people refuse to play with him...

[Corswain]

25 minutes ago, kabaakaba said:

I'm crying in happiness out of your words. If we have more ppl who think this way we would be in the awesome community. But we have to much people who even in friendly environment of narrative evening bring best of the best murderous hobos build. And very offended when people refuse to play with him...

 

I think that the hobby community is actually pretty chill and people are just here to enjoy themselves and have a laugh. The internet just magnifies the vocal minority, as usual.

Edited 2 hours ago by Corswain

[Unknown Legionnaire]

There will never be a perfectly balanced game. It isn't even admirable to have one IMHO. 

But it needs to be playable in a good way, like at home with friends, in narrative campaigns, for a pick-up game, or even in your not-so-competitive local tourney.

(Won't be adressing competitive scene, since that's an entirely different matter, and one could argue not every game needs to be ready to be played in such a way.)

 

When it comes to our beloved Heresy, 90% of 1.0 games I played were with friends, then maybe 10% at smaller 'events'.

For 2.0 I can't even make a statistic, for I barely played more than a handful of games, life got in the way, and when I wanted to start new armies / projects, they announced 3.0

 

Though, even if a game does not need to be perfectly balanced, what we've seen thus far from the 3.0 rules / stats makes me think it might be the worst incarnation of HH thus far,

with a lot of it pointing towards a 40k-ish direction.  Not saying it is, but it might.

 

I mean, look at the utterly imbalanced mess that The Old World turned out to be ... it's not even funny anymore. 

They even noticed themselves, announcing a major rules update / overhaul for this summer, barely 15 months into the game.

And still, people are consoooooooooooming it, because they wanted to immerse themselves in the setting (again).

As if they couldn't have done that with 30+ years of better editions of WHFB.

And if one needs further proof, just look at how imbalanced the rushed-out first Arcane Journal for 'Grand' Cathay has become. Blergh.

 

 

[Marshal Rohr]

We really just need one of these influencers to take the leap and post the libers. It’s really annoying the leaker bailed half way through so we can’t even get a complete picture on the core rules. 

[SkimaskMohawk]

1 hour ago, Unknown Legionnaire said:

And if one needs further proof, just look at how imbalanced the rushed-out first Arcane Journal for 'Grand' Cathay has become

 

Ya it's pretty stilted and bad due to the sales enforced split book.