New Codex Reflections

[Indy Techwisp]

Hi people.

How are the Terminators holding up now that the codex is out?

I'd assume they're in need of character support, but I don't have any practical experience with how WE perform.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Glad to hear your Doom Weasels are performing in action.  Your list has a ton of pressure and lots of vehicles as well as very potent infantry, so I can understand how your friend feels rather on the back foot to deal with that.

[HeadlessCross]

6 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Hi people.

How are the Terminators holding up now that the codex is out?

I'd assume they're in need of character support, but I don't have any practical experience with how WE perform.

I think Terminators can work if you skew into them vs a list with just 1 large squad or 2 min squads. 

[Dr. Clock]

On 7/14/2025 at 5:47 PM, HeadlessCross said:

skew into them

Feel like they'd be fine as a single 'creative' Deep-Strike asset. Their attack profile is kinda mid for the points just due to S4 AP0 shooting, but they punch lateral or down just fine and plugging/exploiting holes from Deep-strike is no bad thing for any list... plus their defence is just good enough that enemy needs to devote real resources to countering them as long as their positioning is sound.

 

I still take basic Marines terminators and they are... just useful! Maybe 10-15 points overcosted/undergunned, but that's life. I figure they may strangely enough benefit from complete removal of oldmarines from loyalist lists insofar as that'll give GW license to just make bolters generally AP-1? Primaris Bolt Rifles can still be better through flat 2 shots, Assault and Heavy [plus Target Elimination rofl] but the AP is always a letdown, and even more so on the supposed cream of the crop like terminators. We can dream.

 

Basically I'd say they can be a useful Deep-strike tech piece in a conventional list, but we need to be careful to leave enough aggro on the line that we don't lose the game before terminators can connect.

 

On another note, it's annoying that so many strats in Goretrack call out Rhinos only... It'd be rad to skew into Landraiders and do weird transport shenanigans with terminators out of them, but I guess that'd be OP? Goretrack is basically dead to me just in feeling like a third Rhino squad would be required and I can't see my way through to painting a third one this year. I'll be pushing to 30 Berzerkers from 20, but the third 10-man is getting Invocatus for a Deep-strike play rather than a Rhino ; )

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[HeadlessCross]

On 7/23/2025 at 7:21 AM, Dr. Clock said:

Feel like they'd be fine as a single 'creative' Deep-Strike asset. Their attack profile is kinda mid for the points just due to S4 AP0 shooting, but they punch lateral or down just fine and plugging/exploiting holes from Deep-strike is no bad thing for any list... plus their defence is just good enough that enemy needs to devote real resources to countering them as long as their positioning is sound.

 

I still take basic Marines terminators and they are... just useful! Maybe 10-15 points overcosted/undergunned, but that's life. I figure they may strangely enough benefit from complete removal of oldmarines from loyalist lists insofar as that'll give GW license to just make bolters generally AP-1? Primaris Bolt Rifles can still be better through flat 2 shots, Assault and Heavy [plus Target Elimination rofl] but the AP is always a letdown, and even more so on the supposed cream of the crop like terminators. We can dream.

 

Basically I'd say they can be a useful Deep-strike tech piece in a conventional list, but we need to be careful to leave enough aggro on the line that we don't lose the game before terminators can connect.

 

On another note, it's annoying that so many strats in Goretrack call out Rhinos only... It'd be rad to skew into Landraiders and do weird transport shenanigans with terminators out of them, but I guess that'd be OP? Goretrack is basically dead to me just in feeling like a third Rhino squad would be required and I can't see my way through to painting a third one this year. I'll be pushing to 30 Berzerkers from 20, but the third 10-man is getting Invocatus for a Deep-strike play rather than a Rhino ; )

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

The World Eaters ones work vs Loyalist Scum ones though due to the fact they get baked on rules to assist in the normally anemic shooting and limited mobility. Really, their only sin is not being able to get Enhancements in a squad. 

 

I think an army experimenting with two max squads is at minimum worth testing. 

[Dr. Clock]

On 7/25/2025 at 5:39 PM, HeadlessCross said:

two max squads

Totally - my point was more that I don't think one needs to skew to like 40% terminators to find a use for them... Deep-Strike on its own is a great add to any list.

 

Also if you're bringing 20 terminators and there's no character support, 1x10 and 2x5 is probably better than 2x10? 2x5 can cover twice the ground and has alot more positioning options than a 10-man. I'll always recommend small unit sizes except where you're trying to max character efficiency or need to abide by rule of 3.

 

Think of it this way: more units means more charge rolls and more chances to get the 9" out of deep-strike ; )

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor. 

Edited July 28 by Dr. Clock

[MadEdric]

Well I just got in a game against a Orc Warhost composed of mostly boys and snagga boys, a large number of each, backed by bikes and squihhog riders. No vehicles. 

I had:

Demon Prince on foot

Kharne

Lord Invocatus

Master of Executions

2 X10 Bezerkers

x2 Rhinos

3 Eigthbound

2 x5 Terminators

10 Jackhals

Helbrute with fist and scourge

Maulerfiend

Forge Fiend with Hades Autocannons and jaws

Kharne and the MoE each with a Bezerker unit, in a rhino. Invocatus with the Eightbound.

It was my first game with the new codex and it felt very different. I'm trying to get the right word, not more free, but not having to rely on a FNP let me focus more on what my army needed to be doing that round. It felt smoother running, more in tune with each element. Fast as well, 8" move on Bezerkers (11" disembarking!), 7" move on Terminators; I was amazed how being a bit faster was really handy. Ballistic changes make shooting really hot or cold. If you're in rapid fire range, the number of shots rises, sometimes a lot, not to mention Terninators and the Forge Fiend get full rerolls if shooting at the nearest. If you are outside of radid fire range, you're lucky to do anything of consequence.

All in all it was fun, I played Bezerker Warband. 

My opponent was Andes, and we usually have very tight games, but this time I think all infantry Orks were the perfect army for this army, and while close the first 3 turns, the tide was quickly turning as in turn 2 I got off 3 charges with Bezerkers, the Eightbound, and the Maulerfiend and struck a heavy blow as they each took out the units they charged.

Things that stood out:

Invocatus and the Eightbound charging a group of 10 powerclaw Nobs (who fought on death), only a slightly wounded Invocatus remained after that scrum. 

Terminators worked great. I had one on the ground and one in deep strike. Them rapid firing into the closest mobs that were in the center of the board really did some work.

If you can get the Dev wounds on infantry, well against an all infantry army, it worked rally well. 

Bezerker Warband is pretty strong, and besides Vessels of Wrath, will be the only one I can play until I increase my model count. Demons are looking tempting now.

 

Edited August 11 by MadEdric

[Dr. Clock]

So I've taken Daemonkin a couple times now that I got my Skarbrand sorted out, and it's quite fun indeed! I got a win into both Death Guard and Sisters.

 

Into Death Guard I took a 20-man for the first time, and no shooting at all, just a heap of Spawn, Jakhals, obligatory pair of Maulers, 20-brick w/ Khârn, 2x5 Hounds, 2x10 'Letters, JuggerLord + 3 Bloodcrushers and walking Prince. I got first turn and push Maulers and Spawn out flanks, using jakhals to screen Prince who ended up making an 11" charge I was not sure I actually wanted in the centre. What followed was Mortarion punking the Prince and then grinding up in my 20-man on centre and then Bloodletters as well until Skarbrand could arrive to chop his head off (and get sucker-punched by fight-on-death). By that point enemy had won left with LoC and DShroud shredding the Crushers and Lord, but I had won right with some Letters following up on Mauler, and I'd been capping centre in spite of Morty since turn 2. So super grindy, but a win.

 

Learning something of a lesson from that, my next list (played last night) dropped the Juggers, Prince and a bit of skirmishing to return to a more traditional double Rhino vibe:

(2100 pts)

 

Skarbrand

Khârn

MoE w/ Blade of Endless Blood

 

3x10 Bloodletters

2x10 Berzerkers

2x Rhino

2x Forgefiend

2x Maulerfiend

1x Flesh Hounds

1x Jakhals

1x Spawn

 

Playing into Sisters, he got first turn and tapped centre and left with Immolators, and picked up 7 secondaries through pushing up 5 MM Retributors out of a Rhino for Engage and Tempting Target. That's the best thing he's able to get all game, since he tries to contest the other objectives with Immolators in turn 1 which just sees me across the table in an instant. By end of turn 2 he's lost Morvenn to a Mauler in the teeth and my last Zerk with MoE have chopped their way through a Castigator and Exorcist... I've dominated centre and right, and while he's got a Penitent, 5 Seraphim and a Castigator on right, I've not even dropped Skarbrand or my last Bloodletter unit in. 

 

Talking about it later, he definitely should not have actually moved out to challenge centre and right in turn 1, and been happy enough with the secondary trade of MM unit. He left himself open to a brutal blood surge, and also kinda flubbed a critical charge from Morvenn, but it did feel kinda like I dumpstered him without needing 20% of the list. Having Skarbrand and 10 Letters as 3rd wave is pretty nifty...

 

Anyway - this list feels like pure value for points on almost everything, so to bring it down to 2k I'd probably just drop the Forgefiends again and add Spawn + Helbrute, or drop the Rhinos and infantry characters for Invocatus + Juggerlord. Indeed, my next list will be double juggerlord and no Rhinos.

 

30 'Letters, 5 Hounds and Skarbrand feels like a comfortable base for Daemonkin consideration... so next steps on the army are 10 more Letters and 3 Crushers... At that point I'll be able to do max out Daemons side alongside triple Juggerlord, which should be mad fun.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Tallarn Commander]

Both games sound like they were fun. Yes, the Sisters player was probably a wee too aggressive in the early game.

 

This edition (and 9th edition) really punish you for not knowing when to push or when not to push. It is very cat and mousey that way.

[Dr. Clock]

20 hours ago, Tallarn Commander said:

knowing when to push or when not to push. It is very cat and mousey that way.

Absolutely. It's ramped up significantly by the extent to which melee armies actually do tend to move faster than they did in editions past. I'm still getting over Zerks at 8" base move tbh.

 

With new points I'm gonna throw this out next to try the refreshed 8Bound:

(1980pts - room for an enhancement):

Khârn

MoE

SBound

2x10 Zerks

2x Rhino

2x Maulerfiend

2x Forgefiend

2x 8Bound

1x Exalted 8Bound

1x Spawn

1x Jakhals

 

The Khârn, Forgefiend and Spawn increases actually mean funny enough that this is 15 points MORE overall than before MFM... But those increases do feel warranted tbh, and it's nice that the Exalted and SBound are also just better than they were, so losing a cheap enhancement for that is fine. To make this a 2100 pt narrative list I'll just forget the enhancement and toss in a Helbrute ; )

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.