New Codex Reflections

[Indy Techwisp]

Hi people.

How are the Terminators holding up now that the codex is out?

I'd assume they're in need of character support, but I don't have any practical experience with how WE perform.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Glad to hear your Doom Weasels are performing in action.  Your list has a ton of pressure and lots of vehicles as well as very potent infantry, so I can understand how your friend feels rather on the back foot to deal with that.

[HeadlessCross]

6 hours ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Hi people.

How are the Terminators holding up now that the codex is out?

I'd assume they're in need of character support, but I don't have any practical experience with how WE perform.

I think Terminators can work if you skew into them vs a list with just 1 large squad or 2 min squads. 

[Dr. Clock]

On 7/14/2025 at 5:47 PM, HeadlessCross said:

skew into them

Feel like they'd be fine as a single 'creative' Deep-Strike asset. Their attack profile is kinda mid for the points just due to S4 AP0 shooting, but they punch lateral or down just fine and plugging/exploiting holes from Deep-strike is no bad thing for any list... plus their defence is just good enough that enemy needs to devote real resources to countering them as long as their positioning is sound.

 

I still take basic Marines terminators and they are... just useful! Maybe 10-15 points overcosted/undergunned, but that's life. I figure they may strangely enough benefit from complete removal of oldmarines from loyalist lists insofar as that'll give GW license to just make bolters generally AP-1? Primaris Bolt Rifles can still be better through flat 2 shots, Assault and Heavy [plus Target Elimination rofl] but the AP is always a letdown, and even more so on the supposed cream of the crop like terminators. We can dream.

 

Basically I'd say they can be a useful Deep-strike tech piece in a conventional list, but we need to be careful to leave enough aggro on the line that we don't lose the game before terminators can connect.

 

On another note, it's annoying that so many strats in Goretrack call out Rhinos only... It'd be rad to skew into Landraiders and do weird transport shenanigans with terminators out of them, but I guess that'd be OP? Goretrack is basically dead to me just in feeling like a third Rhino squad would be required and I can't see my way through to painting a third one this year. I'll be pushing to 30 Berzerkers from 20, but the third 10-man is getting Invocatus for a Deep-strike play rather than a Rhino ; )

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[HeadlessCross]

On 7/23/2025 at 7:21 AM, Dr. Clock said:

Feel like they'd be fine as a single 'creative' Deep-Strike asset. Their attack profile is kinda mid for the points just due to S4 AP0 shooting, but they punch lateral or down just fine and plugging/exploiting holes from Deep-strike is no bad thing for any list... plus their defence is just good enough that enemy needs to devote real resources to countering them as long as their positioning is sound.

 

I still take basic Marines terminators and they are... just useful! Maybe 10-15 points overcosted/undergunned, but that's life. I figure they may strangely enough benefit from complete removal of oldmarines from loyalist lists insofar as that'll give GW license to just make bolters generally AP-1? Primaris Bolt Rifles can still be better through flat 2 shots, Assault and Heavy [plus Target Elimination rofl] but the AP is always a letdown, and even more so on the supposed cream of the crop like terminators. We can dream.

 

Basically I'd say they can be a useful Deep-strike tech piece in a conventional list, but we need to be careful to leave enough aggro on the line that we don't lose the game before terminators can connect.

 

On another note, it's annoying that so many strats in Goretrack call out Rhinos only... It'd be rad to skew into Landraiders and do weird transport shenanigans with terminators out of them, but I guess that'd be OP? Goretrack is basically dead to me just in feeling like a third Rhino squad would be required and I can't see my way through to painting a third one this year. I'll be pushing to 30 Berzerkers from 20, but the third 10-man is getting Invocatus for a Deep-strike play rather than a Rhino ; )

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

The World Eaters ones work vs Loyalist Scum ones though due to the fact they get baked on rules to assist in the normally anemic shooting and limited mobility. Really, their only sin is not being able to get Enhancements in a squad. 

 

I think an army experimenting with two max squads is at minimum worth testing. 

[Dr. Clock]

On 7/25/2025 at 5:39 PM, HeadlessCross said:

two max squads

Totally - my point was more that I don't think one needs to skew to like 40% terminators to find a use for them... Deep-Strike on its own is a great add to any list.

 

Also if you're bringing 20 terminators and there's no character support, 1x10 and 2x5 is probably better than 2x10? 2x5 can cover twice the ground and has alot more positioning options than a 10-man. I'll always recommend small unit sizes except where you're trying to max character efficiency or need to abide by rule of 3.

 

Think of it this way: more units means more charge rolls and more chances to get the 9" out of deep-strike ; )

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor. 

Edited July 28, 2025 by Dr. Clock

[MadEdric]

Well I just got in a game against a Orc Warhost composed of mostly boys and snagga boys, a large number of each, backed by bikes and squihhog riders. No vehicles. 

I had:

Demon Prince on foot

Kharne

Lord Invocatus

Master of Executions

2 X10 Bezerkers

x2 Rhinos

3 Eigthbound

2 x5 Terminators

10 Jackhals

Helbrute with fist and scourge

Maulerfiend

Forge Fiend with Hades Autocannons and jaws

Kharne and the MoE each with a Bezerker unit, in a rhino. Invocatus with the Eightbound.

It was my first game with the new codex and it felt very different. I'm trying to get the right word, not more free, but not having to rely on a FNP let me focus more on what my army needed to be doing that round. It felt smoother running, more in tune with each element. Fast as well, 8" move on Bezerkers (11" disembarking!), 7" move on Terminators; I was amazed how being a bit faster was really handy. Ballistic changes make shooting really hot or cold. If you're in rapid fire range, the number of shots rises, sometimes a lot, not to mention Terninators and the Forge Fiend get full rerolls if shooting at the nearest. If you are outside of radid fire range, you're lucky to do anything of consequence.

All in all it was fun, I played Bezerker Warband. 

My opponent was Andes, and we usually have very tight games, but this time I think all infantry Orks were the perfect army for this army, and while close the first 3 turns, the tide was quickly turning as in turn 2 I got off 3 charges with Bezerkers, the Eightbound, and the Maulerfiend and struck a heavy blow as they each took out the units they charged.

Things that stood out:

Invocatus and the Eightbound charging a group of 10 powerclaw Nobs (who fought on death), only a slightly wounded Invocatus remained after that scrum. 

Terminators worked great. I had one on the ground and one in deep strike. Them rapid firing into the closest mobs that were in the center of the board really did some work.

If you can get the Dev wounds on infantry, well against an all infantry army, it worked rally well. 

Bezerker Warband is pretty strong, and besides Vessels of Wrath, will be the only one I can play until I increase my model count. Demons are looking tempting now.

 

Edited August 11, 2025 by MadEdric

[Dr. Clock]

So I've taken Daemonkin a couple times now that I got my Skarbrand sorted out, and it's quite fun indeed! I got a win into both Death Guard and Sisters.

 

Into Death Guard I took a 20-man for the first time, and no shooting at all, just a heap of Spawn, Jakhals, obligatory pair of Maulers, 20-brick w/ Khârn, 2x5 Hounds, 2x10 'Letters, JuggerLord + 3 Bloodcrushers and walking Prince. I got first turn and push Maulers and Spawn out flanks, using jakhals to screen Prince who ended up making an 11" charge I was not sure I actually wanted in the centre. What followed was Mortarion punking the Prince and then grinding up in my 20-man on centre and then Bloodletters as well until Skarbrand could arrive to chop his head off (and get sucker-punched by fight-on-death). By that point enemy had won left with LoC and DShroud shredding the Crushers and Lord, but I had won right with some Letters following up on Mauler, and I'd been capping centre in spite of Morty since turn 2. So super grindy, but a win.

 

Learning something of a lesson from that, my next list (played last night) dropped the Juggers, Prince and a bit of skirmishing to return to a more traditional double Rhino vibe:

(2100 pts)

 

Skarbrand

Khârn

MoE w/ Blade of Endless Blood

 

3x10 Bloodletters

2x10 Berzerkers

2x Rhino

2x Forgefiend

2x Maulerfiend

1x Flesh Hounds

1x Jakhals

1x Spawn

 

Playing into Sisters, he got first turn and tapped centre and left with Immolators, and picked up 7 secondaries through pushing up 5 MM Retributors out of a Rhino for Engage and Tempting Target. That's the best thing he's able to get all game, since he tries to contest the other objectives with Immolators in turn 1 which just sees me across the table in an instant. By end of turn 2 he's lost Morvenn to a Mauler in the teeth and my last Zerk with MoE have chopped their way through a Castigator and Exorcist... I've dominated centre and right, and while he's got a Penitent, 5 Seraphim and a Castigator on right, I've not even dropped Skarbrand or my last Bloodletter unit in. 

 

Talking about it later, he definitely should not have actually moved out to challenge centre and right in turn 1, and been happy enough with the secondary trade of MM unit. He left himself open to a brutal blood surge, and also kinda flubbed a critical charge from Morvenn, but it did feel kinda like I dumpstered him without needing 20% of the list. Having Skarbrand and 10 Letters as 3rd wave is pretty nifty...

 

Anyway - this list feels like pure value for points on almost everything, so to bring it down to 2k I'd probably just drop the Forgefiends again and add Spawn + Helbrute, or drop the Rhinos and infantry characters for Invocatus + Juggerlord. Indeed, my next list will be double juggerlord and no Rhinos.

 

30 'Letters, 5 Hounds and Skarbrand feels like a comfortable base for Daemonkin consideration... so next steps on the army are 10 more Letters and 3 Crushers... At that point I'll be able to do max out Daemons side alongside triple Juggerlord, which should be mad fun.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Tallarn Commander]

Both games sound like they were fun. Yes, the Sisters player was probably a wee too aggressive in the early game.

 

This edition (and 9th edition) really punish you for not knowing when to push or when not to push. It is very cat and mousey that way.

[Dr. Clock]

20 hours ago, Tallarn Commander said:

knowing when to push or when not to push. It is very cat and mousey that way.

Absolutely. It's ramped up significantly by the extent to which melee armies actually do tend to move faster than they did in editions past. I'm still getting over Zerks at 8" base move tbh.

 

With new points I'm gonna throw this out next to try the refreshed 8Bound:

(1980pts - room for an enhancement):

Khârn

MoE

SBound

2x10 Zerks

2x Rhino

2x Maulerfiend

2x Forgefiend

2x 8Bound

1x Exalted 8Bound

1x Spawn

1x Jakhals

 

The Khârn, Forgefiend and Spawn increases actually mean funny enough that this is 15 points MORE overall than before MFM... But those increases do feel warranted tbh, and it's nice that the Exalted and SBound are also just better than they were, so losing a cheap enhancement for that is fine. To make this a 2100 pt narrative list I'll just forget the enhancement and toss in a Helbrute ; )

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Dr. Clock]

Well - just out here dusting off the cobwebs and thinking through a list for a lil' 1-day tournament here next month.

 

Trying to decide on the last 260 points to add to this:

 

Khârn + 10 Zerks + Rhino

Invocatus + 10 Zerks

Slaughterbound + 3 Exalted

 

Defiler

1x3 Eightbound

Forgefiend

1x10 Jakhals

2x Maulerfiend

 

Options:

 

1) Wing Prince + Jakhals + Battle Lust on SBound (255)

 

2) 10 Zerks in a Rhino (245)

 

3) 1x3 Eightbound + 2x10 Jakhals (255)

 

I still think Berzerker Warband wins for detachment, though Option 2 almost makes Goretrack a possibility... 

 

Thoughts or suggestions? 

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

 

 

[Tallarn Commander]

I'd vote for Option 3, even though Bezerker Warband has the Purge the Foe Disposition, you will still need 3 or so units to run around completing secondaries. The Jackhals do that nicely. And Eightbound are usually quite solid.

 

Enjoy the RTT!

[Dr. Clock]

On 8/10/2026 at 12:02 PM, Tallarn Commander said:

Option 3

I was just about to test the list, but then I realized that I hadn't upgraded the Forgefiend to have the ectos for 15 points, putting me over 10pts.

 

So I've rejigged semi-considerably, also to ensure that my models are all on correct bases (tournament rules) I'm landing on 2x8 Goremongers plus the jakhals:

 

Khârn + 10 + Rhino

Invocatus + 10

Flying Prince - Helm of Ire

 

2x3 8Bound

2x8 Goremongers

1x10 Jakhals

Defiler

Forgefiend

2x Maulerfiend

 

I played this with 2 jakhals and swap Exalted tonight into a CSM double vindicator list and I wiped him in 3 turns... Just roll 8s.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Dr. Clock]

Well - the event is tomorrow. Hilariously we picked up enough points in the interim that I was able to swap the flying Prince for a walking one. Will report back after the event, but first game is into Blood Angels LAG with 20 JP Death Company, like 7 characters and a bunch of MSU. 

 

KILL MAIM BURN!

 

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Lathe Biosas]

Love the Heretical Symbol in your Army photo.

 

Good Luck stomping those Blood Angel flyboys!

[Dr. Clock]

Solid performance - 2-1 and 264 points  (100/100/64), losing third round to event winner, Custodes.

 

Round 1 vs Blood Angels LAG, layout A

 

He gets first and stages but rips a 6 advance and tries to send Astorath over goremonger screen to snipe DP, and promptly rolls a 4 with the -2 to jump over causing him to fail the charge. My turn 1 I also rip a 5 to advance Khârn +10 on the other flank so I kill 20 death company turn 1. The Sanguinary Guard and Mephiston put up a fight, but I'm kinda all over the board and scoring on objectives all game. Feeling good at this point.

 

Round 2 I get Eldar Aspect Host, I go first and just barely stage but am able to pick up his rangers in turn 1 whil staging mostly out of sight. He makes the mistake I think of not really pushing out in his turn either. So in my turn 2 I'm able to charge him with 6 8Bound, Daemon Prince and Khârn. He loses shroudrunners, 2 fire prisms, and brings Avatar on to the Daemon Prince, and on slap back he does pick up the 8bound, but Prince holds his own, Invocatus comes down, and Banshees don't kill Khârn and then die. So From there I charge his deployment and kills the dragons, Guardians+Eldrad, Avatar actually goes down to Prince, and my shooting comes online and blows the Reapers away mostly plus defiler charges on to centre to kill the dregs there and he's tabled in turn 4. Eldar don't feel great rn it's true. 

 

Round 3 is vs Custodes who took me down in second round of the last event there, and I make the mistake in turn 2 of charging with Khârn and Invocatus both when he had enough CP to both fight on death and then interrupt where I didn't start. So I blended one unit with Khârn, and I shiould have procced the 4+ fight on death myself with the strat, but I literally didn't think he had the CP for it... Anyway it was death by a million really big chops from there but I held on for 64 points and enough to sneak into 3rd place for the day on battle points!

 

All told... Khorne is pleased this day.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Thanks for the report and congratulations on the showing.  Custodes are always rough, and it sounds like they were a real hard counter to your play style.  To be fair, I'm not sure what you should have done - sure, he had CP up, but if you don't charge you aren't really playing the game and likely just conceding the charge to him, which puts you in an even worse place without him having to spend the CP to put you there.

[Dr. Clock]

20 hours ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

likely just conceding the charge to him,

Yeah for sure - my main mistake was charging him with both Invo and Khârn in turn 2 and getting the Invo killed before he even hit anything due to the interrupt. Basically I think I needed to slow the tempo just a tad so that I'm not just throwing units away in my own turn to interrupts. His dice were also just better than mine, and the 4++ on Custodes is pretty shattering when dice are even slightly above average.. Given the propensity this edition to get like 35 points when opponent gets 100, I felt okay going 64/100 at the end of the day. For me this being the first time to go positive at this event (my third at the venue) felt like a win, and it just so happened that this list is pretty good right now!

 

Anyway, 

 

KILL MAIM BURN

 

The Good Doctor.