Strange design choices (a rant)

[Kaede45]

I’m not entirely certain as to what I could call this thread other than a rant of sorts, but maybe some of you can figure out what my mind is trying to say so here goes…

 

After trying to figure out what faction I wanted to play, I settled on GK because I like the idea of demon hunters. However, there are a few things that bother me about the models & I guess I wanted to see how others felt about this.

First off, I’m disappointed that they have so few models in their category, featuring only 2 main squads (not counting their variants), but also that they don’t seem to have access to most generic Space Marine units save for dreadnaughts & vehicles. It’s also annoying that they don’t have unique models for their librarians & chaplains. Even their apothecaries aren’t treated as characters like in every other Space Marine army.

Second, while I like the wrist mounted Storm Bolters & have no issues with them being on their left wrists, I find it odd that both Kaldor Draigo & Garran Crowe have their Storm Bolters mounted on their right wrists instead. It makes sense for Draigo, as he carries a shield, but not for Crowe & I guess I find it odd that there is no option to switch wrists on any other models.

Third, I like that Draigo has a shield, which I feel really invokes the idea of him being a knight, but it vexes me that no other models have the option of using shields! I feel that it would be awesome if at least Terminators had the option of swapping their Storm Bolters for shields or if other models could have the Storm Bolters on their right wrists & shields in the left hands (like Draigo). It seems like a missed opportunity in my honest opinion & I wish GW would consider this idea.

Lastly is more of a question, but what do y’all think are the chances that GK will get Primaris marines? I’m not exactly demanding the GW makes Primaris GK, since I do like how customizable firstborns are, but I feel like they may have put themselves in a bad position as all loyalist marines they are making now are Primaris, but the GK are so secretive that it might not make sense lore-wise for them to get Primaris marines. Granted, they may make their presence known to Guilliman who could then pass on that knowledge to Cawl so he could make Primaris GK, but still I’m not sure if that would make much sense. I don’t know, I’m still quite new to the setting, but maybe y’all can give me insight as to what the rest of you guys may think.

 

Anyways, thanks for coming to my TED talk & as always, God Bless!

[W.A.Rorie]

Welcome to the Hallowed Halls of Titan, @Kaede45.

 

1 hour ago, Kaede45 said:

I’m not entirely certain as to what I could call this thread other than a rant of sorts, but maybe some of you can figure out what my mind is trying to say so here goes…

 

After trying to figure out what faction I wanted to play, I settled on GK because I like the idea of demon hunters. However, there are a few things that bother me about the models & I guess I wanted to see how others felt about this.

 

First off, I’m disappointed that they have so few models in their category, featuring only 2 main squads (not counting their variants), but also that they don’t seem to have access to most generic Space Marine units save for dreadnaughts & vehicles. It’s also annoying that they don’t have unique models for their librarians & chaplains. Even their apothecaries aren’t treated as characters like in every other Space Marine army.

 

Second, while I like the wrist mounted Storm Bolters & have no issues with them being on their left wrists, I find it odd that both Kaldor Draigo & Garran Crowe have their Storm Bolters mounted on their right wrists instead. It makes sense for Draigo, as he carries a shield, but not for Crowe & I guess I find it odd that there is no option to switch wrists on any other models.

 

Third, I like that Draigo has a shield, which I feel really invokes the idea of him being a knight, but it vexes me that no other models have the option of using shields! I feel that it would be awesome if at least Terminators had the option of swapping their Storm Bolters for shields or if other models could have the Storm Bolters on their right wrists & shields in the left hands (like Draigo). It seems like a missed opportunity in my honest opinion & I wish GW would consider this idea.

Lastly is more of a question, but what do y’all think are the chances that GK will get Primaris marines? I’m not exactly demanding the GW makes Primaris GK, since I do like how customizable firstborns are, but I feel like they may have put themselves in a bad position as all loyalist marines they are making now are Primaris, but the GK are so secretive that it might not make sense lore-wise for them to get Primaris marines. Granted, they may make their presence known to Guilliman who could then pass on that knowledge to Cawl so he could make Primaris GK, but still I’m not sure if that would make much sense. I don’t know, I’m still quite new to the setting, but maybe y’all can give me insight as to what the rest of you guys may think.

 

Anyways, thanks for coming to my TED talk & as always, God Bless!

 

So im gonna answer your questions like so:

 

1-It has been a long issue with the lack of models for Grey Knights as far back as I can remember. Apothecaries and Ancients were characters until the recent index. Which is super annoying because Apothecaries can not go into Paladin squads when the could only be taken in Paladin squads a few editions ago.  An upgrade sprue would have been nice for Space Marine vehicles.  

 

2-I think it has to do with art work.

 

3- That is how paladins should be equipped, Shields, Right hand bolters and nemesis weapons

 

4- Rumor is 11th ed is the range refresh for Grey Knights. Which would mean enlarged Terminators. 

 

I am going to add a few more issues to your Ted Talk-

• 1 enhancement out of 8 from both detachments is partial good against daemons yet Grey Knights are daemonhunters. 
• Nemesis Force Weapons part 1...Halbreds, Swords, falchions, hammer MAKE THEM SEPARATE 
• Nemesis Force Weapon part 2 on Brotherhood Librarian different than every other Infantry models Nemesis Force Weapon. 
• Dreadknight is not strong enough to fight Greater Daemons toe to toe like in the fluff

 

 

 

 

[casb1965]

Where do I start.

I understand where you are coming from but did you read everything you could on GK before choosing them?

GK come in two flavours, power armour or Terminator armour, nothing more, nothing less. Librarians, Chaplains, Apothecaries are no different to any other GK except for the title and are armed and armoured no differently, especially as all GKs are technically Librarians. 

As for Primaris GK, not going to happen, Cawl is oblivious to their existence and even if he did know of them the GK sure as hell won't give him access to their gene seed. It's hard enough to make a GK in the first place without having some outsider mess with your Gene seed to see if they can cross the rubicon. 

 

Rules wise everything mentioned has been and gone and in some cases come back over the many iterations of 40k. And no doubt some will reappear in 11th.

Force weapons were standardised to one stat line so it was easy to remember and also you didn't have to change your model to get different stats, this may change I 11th.

What i would like to see more than anything is being a psyker actually having benefits rather than the drawback of an anti-psyker rule. They rolled the psychic powers in to being a unit buff without giving GK anything psychic to do.

[CastellanDeMolay]

I remember when Grey Knights were one unit. You could buy a squad of metal Terminators, I don't think they were even calling them Paladins at that point. I thought it was a strange idea to try to spin them off into their own army, but GW seemed to be trying to get away from the concept of allies and agents for a whlle. Historically the fluff stated that they would send small contingents to assist other forces against Daemons and Chaos then hit everyone involved with the forgetti-beam to keep it a secret. Their secretive nature and methods are at odds with the concept of having a wide range of models and a large presence on the tabletop; the fantasy of the army doesn't translate well into a product line. 

 

I think the solution to the problem is to make them as elite as possible, without stepping too much on the Custodes' toes. (I find Custodes being their own self-contained army equally baffling) I think (hope) that the whole Primaris thing will just be quietly retconned as Cawl having made a secret army of Astartes and kept them in stasis, and made some new armour for them, once the last of the firstborn kits are done away with, and we can just pretend that whole thing didn't happen and that size thing is just the same scale-creep to which we're used. 

 

That all said, I think there's potential for new GK units, besides upscaled versions of the current kits. The need for secrecy, and perhaps to establish beachheads from which deep-strike attacks could commence would make a Phobos-like version of Aegis armour logical, and I could maybe see Gravis being useful for situations where teleportation is impractical. Ideally GK would be included as the marine half of a starter set as part of the range refresh, so you get two sets of poses for your main battleline units, similar to what DA got in 6/7th, but that potentially limits the appeal of the starter. It would mean a sprue full of push-fit characters wearing the right types of armour, which should address one of the biggest problems identified in the OP. 

 

Presumably GK will get access to things like the newer Grav-tanks; it seems strange to me that the chapter with supposedly the best technology has fallen behind the rest of the Astartes in armoured warfare. 

[Brother Tyler]

The Grey Knights as we now know them are a relic of their 3rd edition reintroduction (albeit with a few additions in the intervening editions of the game) and the fact that they are (now) different from all the other Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes. Limited resources mean that Games Workshop has to prioritize how it modernizes model ranges; and the introduction of the Primaris into the Adeptus Astartes further forced the incorporation of those models into various Chapter lines. We've seen how Games Workshop has gradually given each Chapter proper Primaris models. It was common sense to start with the basic units that apply to everyone, and to then work Chapter by Chapter. Given the Grey Knights' distinctiveness from both a lore aspect as well as in their models, it makes sense that they would be the last Chapter in the prioritization sequence. Whether or not the Grey Knights will get the Primaris treatment is up for debate. Arguments can be made for either alternative. Ultimately, Games Workshop will make that decision regardless of what players think.

 

Point of fact: the Grey Knights are not "all ... librarians." They are all psykers. While all psykers in other Chapters are librarians, very few of the Grey Knights are librarians, despite their psychic potential. The members of a Chapter's Librarius have specific roles, and these aren't roles performed by the non-Librarian Grey Knights. There was a time when very few of the Grey Knights were psykers:

[The Grey Knights] are specially screened to exclude all but the strongest and most resilient psykers, a measure designed to prevent any Daemonic contamination. As a result, very few of the Grey Knights have any psychic power whatsoever.

That's ancient history, however.

 

The Grey Knights were first introduced back in the 1st edition of the game, with an army list appearing in Realm of Chaos: Slaves to Darkness. In that 1st edition army list, the Grey Knights were remarkably similar to the other Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes, which can be seen by comparing them with the White Scars army list that was published in Warhammer 40,000 Chapter Approved: Book of the Astronomicon (the White Scars army list was described as being representative of the Space Marine Chapters). The key differences were that the Grey Knights were immune to fear effects; when making fear tests caused by Daemons, Grey Knights received a +1 bonus to their Cool; and the Grey Knights had access to psyk-out grenades and some other unique anti-Daemon weapons. In addition, the Grey Knights didn't have all of the vehicles that White Scars [regular] Space Marines could take. In terms of their profiles and most other rules, however, they were recognizable as and largely interchangeable with other Space Marines.

 

Notably, there weren't any special models for the Grey Knights at that time. It wasn't until Terminators were introduced to the game (via Space Hulk) that we saw special Grey Knights Terminator models, and these were the only models unique to the Grey Knights. For the most part, other Grey Knights models were nothing more than regular Space Marines painted as Grey Knights.

 

When the 2nd edition of the game was introduced, the Grey Knights were effectively reduced to just the Grey Knights Terminator squads (which is the period that @CastellanDeMolay recalls). This lasted through the early 3rd edition, with the Grey Knights introduced into that edition via a Chapter Approved article. It wasn't until Codex: Daemonhunters was published in late 3rd edition that we saw the Grey Knights as we now know them. This was effectively a restoration of them in their 1st edition version, though changed so that all Grey Knights were now psykers. As with their 1st edition version, they lacked access to many of the units that other Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes had, such as Assault Squads, bikes, Land Speeders, etc. Forge World filled in some of the gaps with vehicles, including a beloved (and now lost) Dreadnought. Some units were added in later editions, including the Nemesis Dreadknights, Paladins, and Interceptors. The full army list was also expanded to include Assassins, a range of Inquisitorial henchmen, etc.

 

The Grey Knights have always been more limited than their "regular" Adeptus Astartes counterparts, however, because they have a decided focus on daemons. Personally, I liked the 2nd edition version where the Grey Knights showed up as a squad (led by a Captain) to give other armies of the Imperium a bit of muscle against daemons. I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority, however, and the Grey Knights will be perpetuated as a standalone army (and I'm okay with that). Still, I'd like to see them focused a bit more on the anti-daemon role, not giving them access to the full stable of vehicles and other units that other Chapters enjoy. Many of the current limitations can be attributed to the lack of Primaris Space Marines within the Chapter's ranks. If that changes, we may see an expansion of the vehicles that the Grey Knights can take.

 

While I love the idea of being able to choose the forearm upon which individual Grey Knights mount their storm bolters, it seems unlikely to me because this increases the bits needed on the sprues, which are already pretty crowded given the number of weapons options available to each model. This is largely a matter of real world practicality.

 

I'm neutral on the matter of shields. Shields are definitely evocative of the "knights" portion of the Chapter name, certainly, but I don't think they're absolutely necessary. I could see them as an option for certain characters, and perhaps for a special unit, but I think that most rank-and-file Grey Knights should remain with the current stable of weapons and wargear. Most Grey Knights weapons, after all, are two-handed or dual-wield (and they usually have the forearm-mounted storm bolters, too), so models equipped with [storm] shields would necessarily need smaller, and therefore slightly less potent, weapons as a result of carrying a shield.

 

I definitely agree, however, that the Grey Knights need access to the full range of officers/specialists (e.g., standard bearers/ancients, apothecaries, chaplains, and librarians) models that are properly representative of the Grey Knights (i.e., armoured appropriately). If the Grey Knights get those, I imagine they'll come with a range refresh in which the models are properly embiggened. It would be very easy for Games Workshop to give them the Primaris embiggening without needing to have distinct models since the Grey Knights already have unique armour. It would simply be a matter of putting all Grey Knights models in proper Primaris size and handwaving the introduction of Primaris into the ranks. Or they could put the models in that size without adding the Primaris lore (much the way the regular Terminator models have been embiggened). There would be no need for a firstborn/Primaris distinction or different models.

 

I would love to see a reintroduction of an updated proper Grey Knights Dreadnought, and I would love to see the Nemesis Dreadknight improved to make it more similar to an Imperial Knight and able to go toe-to-toe with a Greater Daemon (maybe not the Daemon Princes, though). I've never hated the "baby carrier" appearance of the Nemesis Dreadknight, but I wouldn't mind an update.

[Indy Techwisp]

Just going to chime in here with a note:
There's not many "Loyalist Marine" factions left that need a proper range update.
Space Wolves just got theirs, Deathwatch are in a weird limbo (are they going to return in full from their new index or get fully integrated into IA), the Codex chapters are heavily rumoured/hinted to be getting dedicated content this edition...

 

If 11th want an updated Marine Faction to sell, that's probably gonna be Grey Knights at this point (unless they fully lean into the lingering Space Marine II hype and focus Deathwatch or randomly promote one of the Codex chapters to Divergent status).

So hopefully Grey Knights won't need to wait long for their much needed range refresh.

[CastellanDeMolay]

Random thought, assuming GK get most/all of their range refreshed, would you be happy with getting a bigger variety of units added to the Codex by having the Exorcists rolled in, or would you only want to see new GK units added if there were to be new unit types? 

[Kaede45]

22 hours ago, CastellanDeMolay said:

Random thought, assuming GK get most/all of their range refreshed, would you be happy with getting a bigger variety of units added to the Codex by having the Exorcists rolled in, or would you only want to see new GK units added if there were to be new unit types? 

That’s a good question…

If I’m being honest, it may just be the fact that their main units are just variations of the same two model sets & their character units, like the chaplain & librarian, are just generic versions with nothing that unique might be the most frustrating thing about their range. It feels like they kinda suffer from the same problem as trying to build an “Imperial Agents” army. They’re made to more be ally units in other armies rather than their own unique thing.

 

I guess their lack of models makes them feel more like an afterthought, especially when you consider that they haven’t been upgraded to Primaris status alongside every other chapter.

 

Edit:

Another thought hit me that, as someone who likes to kitbash models & has bought a couple of Buster Swords for such, it does irk me that trying to find non-Primaris bits is very hard. Sure there are quite a few, but these days the majority of bits & upgrades are made explicitly for Primaris scale which can look a little out of place on non-Primaris models. I’m sure most people can look past such tiny details, but unfortunately for me, I’m an extremely detail oriented person.

Edited July 1 by Kaede45
Added a thought

[casb1965]

On 6/30/2025 at 9:49 PM, CastellanDeMolay said:

Random thought, assuming GK get most/all of their range refreshed, would you be happy with getting a bigger variety of units added to the Codex by having the Exorcists rolled in, or would you only want to see new GK units added if there were to be new unit types? 

Why would you include the Exorcists in the codex, they are not a successor chapter and have no more links with the GKs than any other chapter does.

[W.A.Rorie]

23 minutes ago, casb1965 said:

Why would you include the Exorcists in the codex, they are not a successor chapter and have no more links with the GKs than any other chapter does.

 

And to add to this, Exorcists have ties to Plutoian Inquisitors who are Radical in nature. But also until an Exorcists reaches a veteran status they are told they are Descendants of Rogal Dorn, and not Descendants of Grey Knights ,as they are led to believe. 

 

Exorcists- The whole "Dorn is our Primarch",  Not Grey Knight Descendants, and Orison Cults thing is just smoke and mirrors.....

 

Spoiler

They are Loyalist Word Bearers that survived the Horus Heresy! 

 

 

[casb1965]

I rule Exorcists out as being GK successors purely on ghe fact they need Daemonhunters to pass their ritual to become a fully fledged member of the Chapter. If they had GK geneseed that is inbuilt.

[CastellanDeMolay]

On 7/2/2025 at 5:49 PM, casb1965 said:

Why would you include the Exorcists in the codex, they are not a successor chapter and have no more links with the GKs than any other chapter does.

Why would they need to be a successor chapter to be in the same codex? My understanding is that the Exorcists were created [possibly at the behest of the Inquisition] as a means to battle Daemons and Chaos, similar to the GK. I use them as an example because I see a degree of synergy in that including them provides GK with less elite and more varied options, and the Exorcists get their own rules independent of the core codex, albeit ones that work alongside the GK's. 

 

In theory GW could shart out another Cawl-retcon and say he made a GK successor chapter in secret, but I imagine that would be less palatable than an existing chapter with established lore that aligns them closely with the Ordo Malleus, who are themselves already aligned to a significant degree with the GK themselves. The original fantasy of the GK was not as an army unto themselves, but as anti-Daemon reinforcements for other armies, and their very limited model range still [kinda] reflects that. 

 

Going forwards I see three things GW could do with GK.

Making them more elite to allow you to build an army around fewer models treads on the Custodes toes a lot, and potentially creates a ludo-narrative dissonance where the GK essentially becomes silver Custodes. 

Expanding the GK model range potentially introduces unwanted retcons to lore, changes the core fantasy of the army, and may saddle you with an even worse model range than you already had. (Desolator Squads anyone?)

It seems to me that rolling other forces into the GK codex would be a way of avoiding the above pitfalls while maintaining the existing lore and fantasy, and ensuring synergy between the allied force and the GK in terms of rules and themes. There's a danger that this "waters down" the GK codex into a kind of codex: Daemonhunters; my thinking is that this is probably the least bad risk, but I was interested to hear other people's opinions. 

[W.A.Rorie]

12 hours ago, CastellanDeMolay said:

Why would they need to be a successor chapter to be in the same codex? My understanding is that the Exorcists were created [possibly at the behest of the Inquisition] as a means to battle Daemons and Chaos, similar to the GK. I use them as an example because I see a degree of synergy in that including them provides GK with less elite and more varied options, and the Exorcists get their own rules independent of the core codex, albeit ones that work alongside the GK's. 

 

In theory GW could shart out another Cawl-retcon and say he made a GK successor chapter in secret, but I imagine that would be less palatable than an existing chapter with established lore that aligns them closely with the Ordo Malleus, who are themselves already aligned to a significant degree with the GK themselves. The original fantasy of the GK was not as an army unto themselves, but as anti-Daemon reinforcements for other armies, and their very limited model range still [kinda] reflects that. 

 

Going forwards I see three things GW could do with GK.

Making them more elite to allow you to build an army around fewer models treads on the Custodes toes a lot, and potentially creates a ludo-narrative dissonance where the GK essentially becomes silver Custodes. 

Expanding the GK model range potentially introduces unwanted retcons to lore, changes the core fantasy of the army, and may saddle you with an even worse model range than you already had. (Desolator Squads anyone?)

It seems to me that rolling other forces into the GK codex would be a way of avoiding the above pitfalls while maintaining the existing lore and fantasy, and ensuring synergy between the allied force and the GK in terms of rules and themes. There's a danger that this "waters down" the GK codex into a kind of codex: Daemonhunters; my thinking is that this is probably the least bad risk, but I was interested to hear other people's opinions. 

Exorcists were a Cursed Founding Chapter. It was later that the Daemon abilities came to light and that was because their Chapter Master was possessed by a daemon and was able to fight it off. 
 

Cawl would not know about the Grey Knights as they were hidden by Malacador and it is hinted that the Emperor was not aware of his founding. 
 

Currently there is no way that the Grey Knights aka “ Daemon Hunters” can get water downed worse than they are.  One enhancement good against daemons and it effects 1 model….

 

Grey Knights are known for mind wiping all but the most important individuals so  having allied units in the codex seems odd

[Brother Tyler]

The Exorcists don't belong in the Grey Knights codex. Aside from being better than other (non-Grey Knights) Chapters at fighting daemons, the Exorcists have little in common with the Grey Knights. Their organization (two extra companies notwithstanding), equipment, and tactics are consistent with the other Adeptus Astartes Chapters. The Exorcists' participation in the Badab War serves as an excellent illustration of their potency beyond fighting daemons.

 

On 7/3/2025 at 6:53 AM, casb1965 said:

I rule Exorcists out as being GK successors purely on ghe fact they need Daemonhunters to pass their ritual to become a fully fledged member of the Chapter. If they had GK geneseed that is inbuilt.

 

The Grey Knights don't subject their aspirants to deliberate daemonic possession, though. One could argue that they couldn't do that, but whether or not Grey Knights aspirants are vulnerable to daemonic possession prior to their training is open to debate. I'm of the opinion that the Grey Knights' resistance to daemonic possession isn't intrinsic, but is the result of their training. The end result for the two Chapters is slightly different. Each Grey Knight becomes a bastion of purity, his resistance to Chaos the result of years of training and some level of augmentation from their gene-seed; whereas each Exorcist becomes a pseudo-Illuminati (assuming the old lore retains any validity) since the act of casting a daemon out creates a bulwark of defenses against subsequent daemonic possession (which makes the throwaway statement about repossession in the original Third War for Armageddon lore interesting).

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I wish Games Workshop had never revealed the gene-seed lineage of the Exorcists. The original reveal of the Grey Knights (via the Deathwatch stories) was simplistic and the subsequent "correction" to Rogal Dorn was unnecessary.

 

Just my opinion. 

[INKS]

For what it's worth, Crowe is one of the newer models. When you stack him up verse the older models there is a difference in height. While they aren't likely to get "Primaris" they are likely to get a model glowup at some point. That point is anyone's guess. The rumor for a long time now has been 11th edition. Will this actually happen? who knows. 

 

Right now Crowe is safe and maybe the Dreadknight since it's getting a new sprue, although the model itself is more or less the same. which is a shame. 

Hopefully the GK for get a little height adjustment. 

 

I have wanted to start GKs for years. Literally. But I know they need new models, and as much as I am tempted I just will not buy them until they get a refresh to their range. 

I continue to wait.

[CastellanDeMolay]

15 hours ago, INKS said:

For what it's worth, Crowe is one of the newer models. When you stack him up verse the older models there is a difference in height. While they aren't likely to get "Primaris" they are likely to get a model glowup at some point. That point is anyone's guess. The rumor for a long time now has been 11th edition. Will this actually happen? who knows. 

 

Right now Crowe is safe and maybe the Dreadknight since it's getting a new sprue, although the model itself is more or less the same. which is a shame. 

Hopefully the GK for get a little height adjustment. 

 

I have wanted to start GKs for years. Literally. But I know they need new models, and as much as I am tempted I just will not buy them until they get a refresh to their range. 

I continue to wait.

I think We're seeing a soft retcon of the whole "Primaris as an excuse for scale-creep". I think when we've reached the point that GW are comfortable releasing newer versions of older kits without any mention of Primaris on it, then you'll see a GK refresh, but I don't know if we're there for sure yet. I think the Drop Pod refresh is a good sign. If I'm right, the 11th launch box will have a Primaris-sized tactical squad with no mention of Primaris, similar to the SW's new models, I think that will be the indicator I need to confirm when we're there. 

 

That said, I can pretty much guarantee the Strike Squad refresh starts out as part of a Kill Team box. 

[Indy Techwisp]

2 hours ago, CastellanDeMolay said:

If I'm right, the 11th launch box will have a Primaris-sized tactical squad with no mention of Primaris, similar to the SW's new models, I think that will be the indicator I need to confirm when we're there. 

 

That said, I can pretty much guarantee the Strike Squad refresh starts out as part of a Kill Team box. 

 

IMO it's far more likely that GW drop the Firstborn designation (Imperium? I think?) from the unit and let the Primaris Keywords into Rhinos.

GW don't want you to still have a Firstborn army at this point because Primaris are Space Marines now.

They're no longer "special".

 

TL;DR you're not gonna get a kit of "Primaris Grey Knights", just Grey Knights at Primaris scale with power armour that's doing the whole "Mark 7 and Mark X mix" thing units like the Sternguard have going on.

They are Primaris, they're just not gonna be called that explicitly.,

Edited Friday at 08:45 PM by Indy Techwisp

[CastellanDeMolay]

On 7/11/2025 at 9:42 PM, Indy Techwisp said:

 

IMO it's far more likely that GW drop the Firstborn designation (Imperium? I think?) from the unit and let the Primaris Keywords into Rhinos.

GW don't want you to still have a Firstborn army at this point because Primaris are Space Marines now.

They're no longer "special".

 

TL;DR you're not gonna get a kit of "Primaris Grey Knights", just Grey Knights at Primaris scale with power armour that's doing the whole "Mark 7 and Mark X mix" thing units like the Sternguard have going on.

They are Primaris, they're just not gonna be called that explicitly.,

That's what I mean; they'll stop differentiating between Firstborn and Primaris entirely. That said, I kinda disagree with you about people not having playable Firstborn armies any longer. I think that was the original intent with Primaris, but GW have preserved way too much of the Firstborn in Primaris form at this point for that to still be the plan, IMO. That's the reason I'm thinking Tacticals are the Litmus test, as they already have a near-equivalent in the Intercessors, so it doesn't really make sense to create a new Tac kit unless It's to allow them to write rules that will avoid invalidating people's older models.

 

With everything I'm hearing about the 11th launch box, it sounds like It's going to be a throwback to 2nd edition, probably set on Armageddon, Marines Vs Orks, maybe a new Landspeeder, which is one of the first Marine units to ever exist; so I'm expecting it to contain near equivalents to models from the 2nd starter, including a new Tactical Squad. That makes me feel confident that Tacticals, if they are updated, will get that treatment first, and serve as confirmation of how other SM and adjacent updates will be handled going forwards.