Codex Supplement: Black Templars & New Ancient

[SvenIronhand]

The vows feel kind of weak on their lonesome; Oaths is definitely the overall better rule imo. 

[Nephaston]

28 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Interesting they don’t get sternguard. 

Article makes it sound like there will be a "Black Templar Sternguard" unit like the Tanks which have access to a multi-melta due to the upgrade kit. Though, looking at the upgrade kit, there doesn't seem to be anything standout outside of some of the relic-y bits. 

 

 

[Casual Heresy]

I can see why people might view vows as weaker than oaths, but I do think in combination with the templar specific detachments and datasheets it will prove to be equal to or more powerful.

 

I'm liking what I'm seeing regarding the detachments rules. All three sound like they'll work for my exsiting collection without many new additions.

[DemonGSides]

49 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

The +1 to wound on the powerfists would only activate againsts target with toughness 8 or greater. Of course you can argue against low toughness targets, the S8 is already gnarly.

 

Still, I think the effect might be more keenly felt with mass number of lower strength attacks, like the chainswords on a 20 man crusader squad, vs equal or higher toughness opponents.

 

Yeah I think a powerfist wounding on 4's against most tanks is great, and it was already wounding on 2/3 against anything else so I wasn't even considering the +1 wound against anything other than what you'd want to aim a power fist at; the big stuff you'd normally be fishing for 5's on.  It might be better than the BA's LAG detatchment rule for how powerful it makes PFists fighting into armor, though the extra attacks + Oath is probably overall more strong, plus it can't be combined with Lance or anything like that, so it does suffer a bit from that direction.

 

50 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Interesting they don’t get sternguard. 

I’ve always said blood angels red thirst should have been the army rule instead of oath of moment.

 

It'd probably have to revert to old Red Thirst benefit and be just +1 Attacks +1S instead of +2, otherwise it might be a bit too strong, but I agree, and would be happy to pick up some unit restrictions as part of the deal as well; happy to go back to 7th when I couldn't field Centurions, for example.

 

Oath may be more powerful (especially with the update Oath which I always forget about since I'm in a BA mindset and we get neutered Oath), but it's significantly more boring than these vows.

 

Edited Monday at 01:45 PM by DemonGSides

[Tokugawa]

What Oath brings is not linear % increased damage output, it's you can reroll any dice which is not 6 and farming triggered effects.

 

I can't see same power on vows.

[Sir Clausel]

Not totally impressed with the rules so far. But we dont know most of it so too soon to judge.

But the vows only really seem to have one good one(accept) one okay(uphold) and two meh. The old ones were very good and match up dependant.

[redmapa]

I like what I see but perhaps Im being too optimist, only one week to see what the Land Raider Crusader does for us and what new options  and rules the BT Sternguard get.

[Sir Clausel]

13 minutes ago, redmapa said:

I like what I see but perhaps Im being too optimist, only one week to see what the Land Raider Crusader does for us and what new options  and rules the BT Sternguard get.

Im still optimistic. We dont know any strarts or enhancements bar one of each. 

Or anything regarding our units. 

Edited Monday at 02:43 PM by Sir Clausel

[RWJP]

Regardless of how good or bad vows may be, it's very interesting to see how differently GW implemented this compared to the SW rules.

SW are in a weird spot where all of the generic Marine units don't benefit from a bunch of their specific rules, whereas BT armies will benefit from their Vows. Seems very odd that GW have taken two very different approaches to effectively the same situation.

[SteveAntilles]

nevermind, I can read good

Edited Monday at 03:29 PM by SteveAntilles

[DemonGSides]

55 minutes ago, redmapa said:

I like what I see but perhaps Im being too optimist, only one week to see what the Land Raider Crusader does for us and what new options  and rules the BT Sternguard get.

 

I'm guessing the Sword Bretheren are their version of Sternguard, as they're a mixed weapons veteran crew.

 

3 minutes ago, SteveAntilles said:

Am I reading this right, Templars can't take Land Raider Crusaders anymore, or do they have their own bespoke datasheet? 

 

the Black Templar have bespoke datasheets for all of their vehicles as they get the option of adding Multi-Meltas.  Been that way the entire edition, though I do believe they've previously been able to mix and match, which made them de-facto better than any other SM force that wanted to spam Hulls, as they were basically operating on Rule of 6.  This cleans that interaction up, and makes them only able to use their own vehicles.

[redmapa]

10 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

I'm guessing the Sword Bretheren are their version of Sternguard, as they're a mixed weapons veteran crew.

 

 

Sword Brethren are our version of 1st Company Veterans, they are veterans hand picked by the Marshalls to be part of their personal households. BT have always had both a ranged Veteran unit (Company Veterans in 4th and then Sternguard when they were rolled into SM codex) and now the Warhammer article clearly says BT get our own version of Sternguard which makes sense since the datasheet would need to be reworked as their buff only works with Oath which BT no longer have, so we arent losing Sternguard because we already have Sword Brethren, we are losing Sternguard because we are gaining our own version just like in 4th ed when we had Company Veterans which was practically the same datasheet as the one in the vanilla codex but with BT special rules.

[Marshal Reinhard]

11 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

I'm guessing the Sword Bretheren are their version of Sternguard, as they're a mixed weapons veteran crew.

Sword Brethren are a catch all term for the chapters elite. Think of it as interchangeable with "first company veterans". Back in the 4th edition codex, in addition to various close combat options, they could also be loaded with various heavy weapons options, like lascannons or missile launchers. Still predates the idea of the more modern sternguard with access to squad wide combi weapons etc, but it feels like they covered the niche of shooty veterans as well back in the day.

 

The modern sword brethren sheet only gives you access to 1 combi weapon for leader, the rest of the squad's shooting is restricted to pistols.

 

The article also makes it kinda clear that there will be a Templar version of the Sternguard datasheet, which together with the 2 new characters account for 3 of the 4 sheets. I'm guessing the third might be terminators or some other unit, but if so it's odd that Heirs of Sigismund didn't mention restricting access to the codex variant.

[Sir Clausel]

45 minutes ago, Marshal Reinhard said:

The article also makes it kinda clear that there will be a Templar version of the Sternguard datasheet, which together with the 2 new characters account for 3 of the 4 sheets. I'm guessing the third might be terminators or some other unit, but if so it's odd that Heirs of Sigismund didn't mention restricting access to the codex variant.

 

My guess its either an error that terminators are missed or the SM 2.0 rumors are correct and terminators will get a different special rule

[jaxom]

2 hours ago, RWJP said:

Regardless of how good or bad vows may be, it's very interesting to see how differently GW implemented this compared to the SW rules.

SW are in a weird spot where all of the generic Marine units don't benefit from a bunch of their specific rules, whereas BT armies will benefit from their Vows. Seems very odd that GW have taken two very different approaches to effectively the same situation.

BT armies have more often had non-BT infantry as part of their zeitgeist. The new SW detachments try to capture the old feeling of SW being unique by rewarding taking only (or mostly) the unique SW units.

[Orange Knight]

Honestly, I'm happy to see actual divergence in the rules and limitations on units (although in the case of the Templars, the Sternguard will probably still be an option with a slightly different name and wargear selection).

 

Ideally the Oath of Moment is replaced by a more bespoke rule for all the divergent chapters.

 

I wish Games Workshop had simply made rules and had spread the releases more evenly over the last 8 years. It's great to see armies like the Dark Angels and Space Wolves get unique units, but they should have lost some similar options as a result. Unfortunately this kind of common sense approach can't possibly happen when the chapters are updated piecemeal over a decade.

 

In general I think the game needs a new edition to inject more real excitements. I'd like a refresh to all the rules and some fair streamlining.

[Sir Clausel]

I totally agree that its so good there is some ruled diversity. However the wolves should also have chsnged oath to something new since they are just as codex noncompliant as the templars. BA and DA you could argue to also switch it up but they are following the codex at least to some degree. 

If there should be any limitations for units available it should be very few. I only really think that it works with no psykers for bt. If they would lose acces to more units it would just be sad and just limiting instead of flavour. 

[Borbarad]

7 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

It's great to see armies like the Dark Angels and Space Wolves get unique units, but they should have lost some similar options as a result.

Agree; the divergent chapters have been dubbed Space Marines Plus for a reason.

 

Unit limitations were a thing in the past, and it proved those armies with additional character. 
 

Unfortunately GW had to prop up those armies with generic SM units while redoing old kits into primaris. Now they cant go back and limit unit choices without upsetting players whose units would have been taken away. 

[HeadlessCross]

58 minutes ago, Borbarad said:

Agree; the divergent chapters have been dubbed Space Marines Plus for a reason.

 

Unit limitations were a thing in the past, and it proved those armies with additional character. 
 

Unfortunately GW had to prop up those armies with generic SM units while redoing old kits into primaris. Now they cant go back and limit unit choices without upsetting players whose units would have been taken away. 

Except what should BE the limitation? Does it really make sense for Black Templars to lose Sternguard when they still have access to units like Heavy Intercessors or Suppressors?

[Muck1ng]

41 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

Except what should BE the limitation? Does it really make sense for Black Templars to lose Sternguard when they still have access to units like Heavy Intercessors or Suppressors?

They're not loosing them, they're gaining thier own datasheet for them as the current one relies on Oaths. 

[Mike8404]

On 7/21/2025 at 10:45 AM, redmapa said:

 

Sword Brethren are our version of 1st Company Veterans, they are veterans hand picked by the Marshalls to be part of their personal households. BT have always had both a ranged Veteran unit (Company Veterans in 4th and then Sternguard when they were rolled into SM codex) and now the Warhammer article clearly says BT get our own version of Sternguard which makes sense since the datasheet would need to be reworked as their buff only works with Oath which BT no longer have, so we arent losing Sternguard because we already have Sword Brethren, we are losing Sternguard because we are gaining our own version just like in 4th ed when we had Company Veterans which was practically the same datasheet as the one in the vanilla codex but with BT special rules.

 

I'm curious what will be different with Sternguard.   I wasn't around for 4th edition, so idk what Sternguard looked like for us, but now Company Vets are limited to the Command Squad.

 

Do we think Stetnguard will have melee weapons and a ranged weapon like Company Vets did, or will they just change from the oath to vows and leave the rest alone?

Edited Tuesday at 11:09 PM by Mike8404

[Blindhamster]

They’ll have a new special rule that doesn’t interact with oath I guess. I doubt anything else will change, the Templar upgrade sprue doesn’t really have new weapons on it that you’d give them.

[Nephaston]

New fluff-piece article on which faction is the most zealous.

 

Also; why is this not the codex cover?

[Exarch Telepse-Ehto]

Found this on the Reddit page which claimed it was from a Discord

[redmapa]

I foresee  a lot of Marshalls and Castellans leading all sorts of squads, I like the transport detachment the most and the Emperors Champion seems like an absolute beast! Your charactes? TORN TO SHREDS!.

 

Some things are very situational, others are really strong, so far it looks like the army will be carried on the backs of certain characters and a couple strats but at least it looks fun.