Taghmata Omnissiah - The HH 3rd Ed Mechanicum Discussion

[Trokair]

Taghmata Omnissiah - The HH 3rd Ed Mechanicum Discussion   

 

While the Sky might have been falling for the Astartes (and unfalling somewhat today), what little I have been able to gleam from reviews on the Omnisiaah's forces seems to have been more positives, even with the loss of a few options and the Ordinatus (as far as I can tell).

 

However I will reserve judgment until I can actually see all the rules and especially until I have gotten my head around how army selection works for us. I did always a have a few spare Tech-Priest  models (between conversion and the 40k selection), so I don’t think our command/troop choice fillers is going to be an issue for me, maybe.

 

Anyway, I thought we should have our own thread so as to not get buried by the Astartes.

 

So fellow devotes of the Omnissiah, how are we feeling in this new Age of Darkness? What new options and strategies are there and how will our collections transition.

 

 

 

[Pearson73]

Definitely intrigued to see how things work with unit selection. From what I've seen the new force organisation feels very fluffly for Mechanicum with each Magos bringing their own personal entourage almost. 

 

The new pricing for Thallax seems way undercosted, though I don't know if they keep their jumping shennanigans.

[Xenith]

I haven't seen the mech rules but have read that Thallax and castellax are a lot cheaper now as they suffer a bit with the damage stat on weapons - previously you needed like 4 lascannon wounds to take down one castellax, but with D2 that's halved, and demolisher cannons will be killing a Thallax per wound. I'm hoping they're just as mobile, mainly as I just painted a unit of them, though they're less important now that everything can score. 

[Trokair]

With the book in had I have only had a glance through, so there may well be aspects I am still missing. However my first stop was Thallax (and by extension Ursarax) as they are the reason why I have a Mechancium Army in the first place. To think that the Thallax is turning 12 this year (I know they were in the June 2013 WD, but I can’t remember the actual release date as I did not get my first lot until a few months later).

 

 

The first thing and I think most significant change is that Thallax (and Ursarax) are now two wounds instead of three, and we have lost our feel no pain, however they are now 3+ and 6++ and down to 20p from 37p (HH2 or even 40 in HH1).

 

This change to me fundamentally changes the nature of the unit.  Thallax have gone from cybernetic jump pack OEQ (Ogryn equivalents, T5 3W 4+) kind of unit into more of a fancy marine or given the base size a terminator knock off. Now in a sense from a fluff point of view they were a marine equivalent, and the Lorica Thallax being a divergent power armour development. However from a how to use on the tabletop to me at least (and without having played any games yet) they have had a role change, we will see how this plays out.

 

Other changes of note are:

• A movement increase to 10 in exchange for the jet pack utility, which I am fine with, and in fact in my home made attempts to port Thallax to 40k (for 8^th, 9^th and 10^th edition I did much the same thing, taking the cue from Tau Battle suits that also used to be jet pack back in 7^th). They have the Antigrav type, so can still move over models and terrain so that aspect has not been lost.
• The Lightning Gun has finished the Transition it started in HH2 and is now only a 3 shot S5 gun instead of a 1 shot s7 Rending gun it was in HH1, and as such has lots a little utility compared to the HH2 version with both profiles, but again I think I am ok with this (and again did similar in my 40k port house rules, taking cues form necron tesla weapons), especially given the next point.
• Special weapons are no longer limited to one in three, so if you want to load up you can. For my own I will probably stick to 1 in three for now, as that is how I built them, but when I get round to building Thallax #25-30 for my collection I’ll probably build them mostly as special to bulk out or swap out with the existing units (I am at 18 Resin and 3 Plastic built and painted, with another 9 plastic on sprue).  I-rad cleanser and Multilaser are gone, which given that the former has been out of production for some years now, and hte latter never had a model is not surprising. I guess that plan for converting a plastic Thallax to have a multilaser will now never happen, oh well, they where the less used weapon options anyhow, Maybe it was my target selection, but my one I-rad never seem to do anything.  The Photon-Thruster, Phased Plasma Fussile and Multimelta all changed a little with the edition transition, but they look like they still do the same jobs as before more or less.  
• Squad size is now at 6 to 9, and I will miss having small three Thallax units around but given the price drop (and the contents of the plastic box) this change was on the cards, to be honest I am a little surprised the option of going to 9 remained

 

If you take Ordo Reductor Archmagos then there is a Apex detachment that you can fill with three Thallax units that can take a Prime Advantage for a 5++ and an extra point of leadership.

 

 

Ursarax

 

Changes are much the same as the Thallax, 2 wounds, 3+ 6++, power fists nolonger limited to one in three and a simmlar price drop to 25p (from 45 in HH2 and 50 in HH1). Their fists however are nolonger true power fists in that they are S+2 (so S6) and not Sx2.

 

That said, if you take a Lacyraemarta Archmagos then corresponding uniq Apex detachment can field up to three units of Ursarax that can take a Prime Advantages that adds two to their strength and gives them an extra wound, basically putting them back to where they used to be (and making the lightning claw stronger to boot).

 

 

 

Taking my army into HH3

 

The core of my Ordo Reductor themed list in both HH1 and HH2 was always along the line of:

• 1 tooled up Archmagos
• 4 units of Thallax (one 6man with plasma, and a 3 man of each MM, Photon and I-rad respectively)
• 1 unit of Ursarax (6 to 9) 
• 3 Medusa Tanks

And then additional units added for flavour or points permitting, such as more Thallax, Macrocarid Explorator and whatever took my fancy.

 

 

In terms of bring this into HH3, the smaller Thallax units get amalgamated into 6 man units, the Ursarax stay as is and while the Medusa tanks are dead (and unless there is a surprise in the Legacy PDF will remain so) with plastic Krios now a thing I will just do a one for one replacement, and the Medusa might find a home in a marine list somewhere).

 

I will need a second character, but I have a few spare Magos/Techprist models, so that Tax is ok, more problematic is that the Archmagos have lost access to jet pack, so when joined to Thallax/Ursarax will slow the entire unit down.

 

So the core of my list I think is going to be fine, though with the point drops I think what used ot be approx.2k is now 1.5k. I guess I am playing smaller games (which honestly suits me) until I can build more stuff. I havent looked to close at the Cybernetica stuff, but I suspect that my 2k Automata list is likewise smaller.

 

[Astartes Consul]

Assuming one had the Mechanicum Support Group box and six Thallax on the shelf, how would you build that out into an allied detatchment / small army?

[Cleon]

3 hours ago, Astartes Consul said:

Assuming one had the Mechanicum Support Group box and six Thallax on the shelf, how would you build that out into an allied detatchment / small army?

As I understand it, it's going to be a little painful, please bear with me as the names for all the new slots bounced straight off my simple brain.

 

What you have is:

A Krios (tank slot)

A Karacnos (also tank slot, Hooray!)
A Thanatar (dreadnought slot)

and a Thallax cohort which is the troopy thing with the transport on it - support slot?

 

So you're going to need the Allied detachment to be legal, which is annoying as you have nothing that goes in there, but you are going to need force unlock heroes, so hooray I guess.

 

First you'll want to grab that HQ in the prime slot and take Logisitical benefit so you can take the Thanatar without taking a Heavy support detachment.

Then you need enough HQ to unlock an Armoured support detachment to take both the tanks and a Tactical support to let you take the Thallax.

 

To build out I'd then look at extra units in the free slots I ha left, so basic troops and more of the thallax style support things?

 

 

 

[Trokair]

3 hours ago, Astartes Consul said:

Assuming one had the Mechanicum Support Group box and six Thallax on the shelf, how would you build that out into an allied detatchment / small army?

 

 

I haven’t got my head fully around army building yet (and the added weirdness of the Mechanicum specific quirks) but I think the following is all correct... 

First of the two quirks to keep in mind with Mechnaicum list building:

 

1. Our Troop choice is a 30p (before upgrades) Tech-Priest, they can join units, provide buffs or utility through equipment choices and cyberthurgy

The traditional Troop choices (Thallax, Castellax and Tech-Thralls) are all support choices now. Mechancium dose get a bespoke Auxillia Detachment (Taghmata Cohort) with 4 Support slots, so you can still filed plenty of what used to be troop.
It does feel strange that we need to use one of our auxiliary slots to field the sort of units (and in the quantity if we so choose) that other armies get of the bat with the Primary or Ally Detachment in the form of 4 Troop slots.  

 

2. Mechanicum Sub factions, some units have predetermined sub factions (Cybernetica for Castlellax (and all Automat I think), Lacrymaerta for Tech-Thralls and Reductor for Thallax. This is all nice and flavourful and keys of certain abilities and rules. The army building issue is that with the exception of the Primary (or Allied) detachment all units in a detachment must be of the same sub faction. So that 4 support slot Axulliary detachment I mentioned can take up to 4 units of Castellax or up to 4 units of Tech Thrall etc, but it cannot be used to take 1 Unit of each of Castellax, Thallax and Tech-Thralls (ie exactly what came in the battle box).
Also as per main rule book, characters joining units from different factions (and I think Mech sub factions count for this) suffer stats penalties.

 

So keeping that in mind, and on the assumption we have One unit of 2 Castellax*, Two units of 6 Thallax, One unit of 20 Tech-Thralls (or Two units of 10) and Triaros as our starting point (as I think that is what you have from what you mentioned) we can do as follow.

 

*Support Slot Castellax can only take Mauler Bolt Cannons, but the Castellax Destructor (a heavy assault slot unit)  which can be built from the same box can come with Multimeltas or Darkfire Cannons  

 

 

As Allies.

 

Get 1 Magos. Which has Officer of the Line (2) so lets us take two Auxilliary detachment, the Comand slot in the Allied Detahcment is also a Prime slot so that Magos can also take Logistica for one extra unit slot.
 

This would let us build:

• Allied Detachment with 1 Magos – I’d probably pick Cybernetica so it can go with the Castellax, or Lacrymaerta if blobbing up with the Tech Thralls
• Logistica slot for one support for Castellax (or one heavy assault for Castlleax Destructor)
• Taghmata Cohort  with 2 units of Thallax
• Taghmata Cohort with 1 (or 2 small) units of Tech Thralls

This does not use the Triaros and if you wanted to use it you either drop one of the three non Magos options above and take a Triaros as either a Logistica or as a Armoured Fist Deatachment or add a second Mago which would give you two more Auxilliary slots, so you could expand and take the auxillary that fits the type of unit you want to take.

 

As full army

If you then wanted to expand into a full army get an Archmagos, either for the Apex Detachment for your subfaction of choice (there are some really interesting one) or another Auxillary Detachment. If going Mech main there are a lot of choices, but due to the above mentioned quirks it is a bit restrictive and you have to pick your theme/intent. 

 

As far as I can tell picking a thematic army that goes with one (or maybe two) sub faction specific units flavours works quite well, but because of the subfaction restriction picking a bit of everything is awkward.

 

Due to the quantity of units that are Cyberntica I think a Cybernetica lists is the easiest to build/round out.

 

 

EDIT: I see from Cleons reply that I may have been thinking ofthe wrong box and therfore which untis you have avilable.

If so then much as he said, A Magos with Logistica get you a heavy suport slot for the Thanatar, the tanks can go in a Armoured Suport and the Thalalx in a Taghmata Cohort (or as there is only one the Tactical Suport would also work)

 

Edited 16 hours ago by Trokair