40k Leagues of Votann Second Wave

[DemonGSides]

1 minute ago, phandaal said:

 

I was impressed by how well LoV lore incorporated old Squats lore, classic Dwarven tropes, and 40k history. Their reintroduction is a retcon, but honestly the thing it retconned was very stupid so that does not bother me.

 

The aesthetic seems to throw people off, mainly. Not sure where the "space marines" thing comes from besides Warriors having chest armor and a backpack/helmet or Einhyr having full armor. If anything, those guys look more like Terran Marines from StarCraft than 40k Space Marines.

 

I always thought this was the "Space Marine" people were referencing when talking about their design language.  I like it, because I also like Starcraft, but I can understand if it rubs people wrong.  People are wrong all the time!

 

1 minute ago, phandaal said:

 

Also there is still whatever animosity lodged itself in people's hind brains because of pre-launch 9th edition codex rules. A lot of people swear they played against an OP army that never existed.

 

Yeah one of the problems with our ever connected society is that there's for sure some "phantom feels" about what the Votaan were capable of.

[INKS]

So a better question, which of the new units are you buying first if you place Votann?

[AvePicante]

11 minutes ago, INKS said:

So a better question, which of the new units are you buying first if you place Votann?

I'll hopefully get all of them in one go, but I particularly like the Earth Shaker and the Steeljacks. Definitely working as many of those into my army as I can

[DemonGSides]

The mole mortar is just so cool idk how you resist buying 3 units of them off the rip.

[silverstu]

10 minutes ago, INKS said:

So a better question, which of the new units are you buying first if you place Votann?

Tough question! I'm cycling through them- Steeljacks look cool and a nice durable unit which hits hard is very tempting, the Earthshaker is a very cool diorama, really love the Cthonian crew and it would add long range firepower to cause opponents trouble. Finally the Kapricus would add a lot of extra firepower to my bike units which I love, a cheap magna rail zipping about is very tempting.. Depends on the rules and points for each, model wise I love them all so there is no bad option for me. my priority is the codex, dice [if I like the design] and Buri, then pick one of the units depending on the respective rules. 

[phandaal]

15 minutes ago, INKS said:

So a better question, which of the new units are you buying first if you place Votann?

 

Kapricus x3 + Memnyr. Been seriously considering building a second Votann army with a new color scheme (allies for my Norse Votann of course), and this is a push in that direction. Might paint them up to fit in my existing army too.

 

Those vehicles are too cool, and the Memnyr will be awesome as a psi-tech-caster-hacker model.

 

Steeljacks are intriguing as well, but want to see them painted up with something besides Thurian colors before pulling the trigger there. I could see these guys bodyguarding the Memnyr with a couple of converted Kastelan "golems" backing them up for a cool brobot subdivision in the overall force.

[Jukkiz]

this damn tread about new models has turned me to collecting funny DRG dwarfs because they´re absolute bastards XD

Rock and stone!

[Lord Marshal]

1 hour ago, INKS said:

So a better question, which of the new units are you buying first if you place Votann?

 

Definitely the (bigger) Mole Mortar for me.

 

I adore the Thrice-Devoured, but I'll want to up my painting game before giving him a proper crack.

 

The Kapricus has also very quickly grown on me.

 

Gerald Robotnik and the Steeljacks I'm not in-love with, the latter especially because I feel like making Ironkin a bespoke unit takes away from their fluff identity as being treated as largely just equal Kin. I'm sure I'll find myself picking them up eventually though, particularly if they end up in any discount boxes.

 

Edited Monday at 06:12 PM by Lord Marshal

[TheVoidDragon]

1 hour ago, Lord Marshal said:

Gerald Robotnik and the Steeljacks I'm not in-love with, the latter especially because I feel like making Ironkin a bespoke unit takes away from their fluff identity as being treated as largely just equal Kin. I'm sure I'll find myself picking them up eventually though, particularly if they end up in any discount boxes.

 

 

I think it's worth remembering that this isn't the first unit of Ironkin that's a function exclusive to them, either model or lore wise. There's already the Ironkin Co-pilot of the Hekaton, who doesn't have arms or legs even, and then there's Ironkin roles like Wayfinders and Kognitaars that the organic Kin can't do. 

Edited Monday at 07:21 PM by TheVoidDragon

[AvePicante]

35 minutes ago, TheVoidDragon said:

 

I think it's worth remembering that this isn't the first unit of Ironkin that's a function exclusive to them, either model or lore wise. There's already the Ironkin Co-pilot of the Hekaton, who doesn't have arms or legs even, and then there's Ironkin roles like Wayfinders and Kognitaars that the organic Kin can't do. 

Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the co-pilot of the Hekaton a COG and not an Ironkin? The Ironkin have real intelligence while the COGs are simple robots. Same as the three E-COGs (not the Assistant) with the Iron-Master and the two CORVs that accompany the Grimnyr

Edited Monday at 07:56 PM by AvePicante
Punctuation

[TheVoidDragon]

1 hour ago, AvePicante said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't the co-pilot of the Hekaton a COG and not an Ironkin? The Ironkin have real intelligence while the COGs are simple robots. Same as the three E-COGs (not the Assistant) with the Iron-Master and the two CORVs that accompany the Grimnyr

 

You can tell the difference between a COG and Ironkin by the head - an Ironkin can talk, so it has a speaker on the front. COGs can't talk, so they have just a bolt there. The Co-pilot has the speaker, so is an Ironkin; further shown by this article saying: 

 

Quote

> the Hearthkyn driver and his Ironkin co-pilot

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/BryX6O1D/this-aint-your-ancestors-land-train-take-a-closer-look-at-the-hekaton-land-fortress/

 

Strangely though the new Kapricus article says the gunner in the back of the defender variant is an Ironkin, despite having the bolt. So it seems either the article got it wrong and it's a COG, or unfortunately that Ironkin can't even talk.

Edited Monday at 09:24 PM by TheVoidDragon

[phandaal]

12 minutes ago, TheVoidDragon said:

Strangely though the new Kapricus article says the gunner in the back of the defender variant is an Ironkin, despite having the bolt. So it seems either the article got it wrong and it's a COG, or unfortunately that Ironkin can't even talk.

 

Probably the former. Just going off of looks, that is a COG and not an Ironkin. Maybe they got confused because the pilot can be an Ironkin.

[TheVoidDragon]

16 minutes ago, phandaal said:

 

Probably the former. Just going off of looks, that is a COG and not an Ironkin. Maybe they got confused because the pilot can be an Ironkin.

 

It could also be that the model designer got it wrong, and mistakenly used the COG gunner as the basis rather than the Ironkin co-pilot.

[ThePenitentOne]

6 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

 

Gerald Robotnik and the Steeljacks I'm not in-love with, the latter especially because I feel like making Ironkin a bespoke unit takes away from their fluff identity as being treated as largely just equal Kin. I'm sure I'll find myself picking them up eventually though, particularly if they end up in any discount boxes.

 

See, I feel the other way around: thanks to Steeljacks and Memnyr, you can finally field a small army of nothing but Ironkin. It wasn't possible to do that until now, so as far as I'm concerned, the new units make them MORE equal, not less.

 

Because the Kaprica can have an Ironkin pilot, it's also usable in the "all Ironkin" detachment.

 

 

[INKS]

Ironkin army or detachment would be cool.

[Shinespider]

I think it fits pretty neatly into the way the Votann instrumentalize bodies. They already genetically weave the flesh kin based on whatever is needed (a lot like GSC, actually,) so why wouldn't they do the same for the Ironkin? 

[silverstu]

The Kapricus looks like a cracking wee model - folks have compared it to the Sagitaur but its 2/3rds the size, lighter and has serious firepower proportionately. I'm wondering if it will have Mag riders ability so it can redeploy with the pioneers. 

Really liking how they have expanded the Ironkyn into their own element within the faction with this release - gives them leeway to create other forms and I like the idea of Kin society having different sized members of the community. 

Plus they have added Arkanysts to the mix- could get a unit/construct/character related to them in the future. 

I think this is a great release and it gives me the feeling of more to come in 11th, more than just a single character .. future is bright!

[Dr. Clock]

9 hours ago, Shinespider said:

instrumentalize bodies

100% this; I figure the 'dome/egg' is the only thing Ironkyn 'need' to survive. That's 'them', and all the functional sensors, containers, limbs and weapons are just peripherals they can swap out as needs be. Some will have different capacities, specialties or preferences, but ultimately they aren't bound to a standard body layout / size. That's my headcanon anyway.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor. 

[TheVoidDragon]

2 hours ago, Dr. Clock said:

100% this; I figure the 'dome/egg' is the only thing Ironkyn 'need' to survive. That's 'them', and all the functional sensors, containers, limbs and weapons are just peripherals they can swap out as needs be. Some will have different capacities, specialties or preferences, but ultimately they aren't bound to a standard body layout / size. That's my headcanon anyway.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor. 

 

The entire thing is 'them', in the same way the body of an organic kin is who they are. They're not just some mechanical components to be swapped out as if it makes no difference, they're all unique to what makes up that individual ironkin. Ironkin in other forms like the Steeljacks will have been created like that and remain that way. 

[StrangerOrders]

Been a hot minute since I read Khal's Oath but iirc the Ironkyn can survive without their bodies as long as the head survives and can adjust their bodies.

 

What I can't recall for the life of me is how resistant/difficult they are to modify from a programming/psychological perspective. 

 

The fleshy Kyn however tend to really dislike changing their role or getting sidelined due to how much self-worth is tied into the whole Skein and contribution thing. They also mentioned in the Livestream that the Ironkyn in the Steel Jack frames are made for combat.

 

So if we extrapolate from what we know, until an author or GW throws it out the window and sets a precedent, it would stand to reason that getting formatted into/out of a Steel Jack frame would not be a 'great' occurance for the Ironkyn involved. Since it implies a failure or obsolete previous role which can easily fall into being a failed product for a purpose-built existence.

 

Just my two cents.

[Dr. Clock]

12 minutes ago, TheVoidDragon said:

They're not just some mechanical components to be swapped out as if it makes no difference, they're all unique to what makes up that individual ironkin.

I agree to a point, but again in my headcanon the 'dome egg' as the seat of memory and consciousness is the 'bare minimum' an individual would need to survive. Of course individuals would become attached to their peripherals/bodies over time just like you and I may get attached to a car, or our boots. Indeed, for me this all highlights the extent to which all our identities are intermingled with our things [not to say mere objects]. 

 

Material culture, it appears to me, is a basic component of individuation and identity... Thus I don't see any problem thinking of the 'peripherals' as important 'parts of the body and identity', even while they are understood to be ultimately fungible, especially when put to warfare. Clothes really do make the kyn, so to speak.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

[TheVoidDragon]

2 hours ago, Dr. Clock said:

I agree to a point, but again in my headcanon the 'dome egg' as the seat of memory and consciousness is the 'bare minimum' an individual would need to survive. Of course individuals would become attached to their peripherals/bodies over time just like you and I may get attached to a car, or our boots. Indeed, for me this all highlights the extent to which all our identities are intermingled with our things [not to say mere objects]. 

 

Material culture, it appears to me, is a basic component of individuation and identity... Thus I don't see any problem thinking of the 'peripherals' as important 'parts of the body and identity', even while they are understood to be ultimately fungible, especially when put to warfare. Clothes really do make the kyn, so to speak.

 

Cheers,

 

The Good Doctor.

 

The dome part is the AI core part of them, yes. The Memnyr character here confirms that as it's basically 5 ironkin stuck together, although we have no idea how or why that's happened. 

I wouldn't say that it's like becoming attached to a car or clothing though. Their components aren't just things to them, it's not going to be any different from someone being attached to their actual arm and that being a part of them, because that's in essence what it is.  They're people that happen to be AI, their bodies are not just machines to be swapped around as if it makes no difference. 

Edited Tuesday at 07:43 PM by TheVoidDragon

[INKS]

1 hour ago, TheVoidDragon said:

 

The dome part is the AI core part of them, yes. The Memnyr character here confirms that as it's basically 5 ironkin stuck together, although we have no idea how or why that's happened. 

I wouldn't say that it's like becoming attached to a car or clothing though. Their components aren't just things to them, it's not going to be any different from someone being attached to their actual arm and that being a part of them, because that's in essence what it is.  They're people that happen to be AI, their bodies are not just machines to be swapped around as if it makes no difference. 

Hmmm, yes and no? The difference is if they lose and arm or leg they will make a new one. far easier than it is for the flesh... although adding a bionic is not overly difficult in 40k. I don't think they have the save ideal as the ad mech when it comes to upgrading themselves as such. but if they need to replace their whole body, I think they would with very little trouble. 

[TheVoidDragon]

48 minutes ago, INKS said:

Hmmm, yes and no? The difference is if they lose and arm or leg they will make a new one. far easier than it is for the flesh... although adding a bionic is not overly difficult in 40k. I don't think they have the save ideal as the ad mech when it comes to upgrading themselves as such. but if they need to replace their whole body, I think they would with very little trouble. 

 

The point is, while they can do that and obviously do (both flesh and mechanical replacements), with Ironkin their own body is what makes up the idea of them in the same way as it does with the organic kin and theirs.  Here's what the article said about it originally, although I'm sure there's more in the codex elaborating on it: 

 

An Ironkin’s body isn’t just some component to be replaced – it’s deeply personal, as much as the bodies of their fleshy cousins, and designed to fulfil a certain niche, such as mining support units, cargo luggers, combat pilots, or shock troopers.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/kYSZrSMB/lore-of-the-leagues-introducing-the-ironkin-mechanical-members-of-the-leagues/

 

They are able to be swapped around and get replacements and all that, but it's not some trivial thing that gets done on a whim, because they're not just machines. 

Edited Tuesday at 09:48 PM by TheVoidDragon