40k First Founding Champions + Combat Patrols

[LSM]

13 hours ago, MoriyaSchism said:

What's really strange about the new Raven Guard is that he has elements of Shrike you see on some of the Black Library book covers and the sharp edges of the plate Corax used to wear, but they added Chaos Raptor feet to it and that awful helmet. The feather coat makes me think of the Tzeentchian warband from War Cry or fancy scarves women sometimes wear. 

 

Raptor/Havoc-esque feet.

Master of Possession-esque feathered shawl.

Eidolon's limp mohawk.

Vaguely Cypher-ish pieces of armour.

 

Prime CSM conversion fodder.

 

//

 

On the other hand, I've been trying to figure out what the gosh-golly he's supposed to be clinging to. At first I thought it might be some sort of alien chitin, but there's bits of metal sticking out of it...

 

I saw someone elsewhere suggest a giant mound of bird poop, and until someone can figure otherwise, I guess that's what I've got to go with.

[jaxom]

3 hours ago, 01RTB01 said:

There seems to be a trend that the most recent CPs have been more interesting. It's a welcome change after so many boring CPs have been released. I've no beakie interest but the new boxes look a lot more fun/ interesting/ varietable.

My current theory is 11th Ed will have Combat Patrol more like AoS Spearhead and the new Patrols are more themed in preparation.

[Xenith]

I don't really know why but that raven guard one is really nice, the others are a bit limp. 

 

I look at the RG one and I see prime corax conversion fodder! He's probably the same size as the fw model!

[Ayatollah_of_Rock_n_Rolla]

I'm a bit torn on the RG character. 

On the one hand he seems overdone with the pose, clawed boots, all those things flying around and the weird lightning claws design.

On the other hand he vaguely reminds of Alex Alice's "Third Testament", which I really liked. 

 

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, LSM said:

 

 

 

On the other hand, I've been trying to figure out what the gosh-golly he's supposed to be clinging to. At first I thought it might be some sort of alien chitin, but there's bits of metal sticking out of it...

 

I saw someone elsewhere suggest a giant mound of bird poop, and until someone can figure otherwise, I guess that's what I've got to go with.

 

I think it's supposed to be a melted statue.

[divad8]

11 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

I think we've already had one small leak of the supposed Vanguard Veterans and they're just wearing Tacticus

 

What do you mean exactly? When has this happened? 

[LSM]

25 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

I think it's supposed to be a melted statue.

 

Statue, you say?

 

[Blindhamster]

1 hour ago, divad8 said:

 

What do you mean exactly? When has this happened? 

Just comments from Valrak

[ArcusArmis]

On 7/19/2025 at 10:09 PM, Toxichobbit said:

 

The shoulder pads are not weird in the slightest. Iron Hand Gorgons had them before gravis even existed. And Iron Hands Tactical Squads had them before Gorgons existed. That shoulder pad design for the Iron Hands dates back 20 years.

I'm not saying they are weird based on the Cog part of it.

I'm meaning more in the way that it has trim? Current Terminators, and The Gorgon Terminator models don't have the full trim around them, they are generally pretty bare right?

Like I don't think I've seen a Terminator with the full shoulder pad trim? And at least to me, it feels kinda wrong?

 

[CastellanDeMolay]

Wasn't the supposed Vanguard Veterans leak, just a photograph of some guys army on WarCom, where he had converted some existing Primaris models? 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

On 7/18/2025 at 10:04 PM, HeadlessCross said:

I mean, I really didn't give a criticism of the model itself to be fair, just the concept of redundancy. I think all the models are a home run, especially the Iron Hands dude with the power equivalent of a baseball bat with nails/studs in it. 

He is holding a tetsubo. In mythology the oni, Asian ogres, are often depicted with those clubs. To my knowledge the Iron Hands had to this point never any Asian influences. In fact their home planet Medusa and the nickname of their Primarch, the Gorgon, strongly hint at Greek roots. This means the tetsubo doesn´t fit. However I will purchase this model anyway.

[redmapa]

14 minutes ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

He is holding a tetsubo. In mythology the oni, Asian ogres, are often depicted with those clubs. To my knowledge the Iron Hands had to this point never any Asian influences. In fact their home planet Medusa and the nickname of their Primarch, the Gorgon, strongly hint at Greek roots. This means the tetsubo doesn´t fit. However I will purchase this model anyway.

 

I would disagree with the idea that a tetsubo does not fit with the Iron Hands, from the point of view of it being "asian" weapon sure BUT Iron Hands are known for their cold, remorseless, brutality and there is nothing more brutal than being beaten by a giant metal club AND like you said the Iron Hands names are greek in origin but it can also be seen as monsters, Medusa, Gorgon, Morlocks, Avernus are all connontations of monsters so having weapons that are known to be for monsters (Ogres in this case) fits fairly well imo, its a neat detail that adds a lot of character.

[divad8]

1 hour ago, CastellanDeMolay said:

Wasn't the supposed Vanguard Veterans leak, just a photograph of some guys army on WarCom, where he had converted some existing Primaris models? 

 

Yeah, I was fearing he was referring to that, which was just some jump pack intercessors with other weapons, like a BT hammer and a gladius from the UM primaris upgrade kit.

[SvenIronhand]

1 hour ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

He is holding a tetsubo. In mythology the oni, Asian ogres, are often depicted with those clubs. To my knowledge the Iron Hands had to this point never any Asian influences. In fact their home planet Medusa and the nickname of their Primarch, the Gorgon, strongly hint at Greek roots. This means the tetsubo doesn´t fit. However I will purchase this model anyway.

It's the 41st Millennium. There's plenty of time for cultural admixture to have occurred. 

[HeadlessCross]

1 hour ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

He is holding a tetsubo. In mythology the oni, Asian ogres, are often depicted with those clubs. To my knowledge the Iron Hands had to this point never any Asian influences. In fact their home planet Medusa and the nickname of their Primarch, the Gorgon, strongly hint at Greek roots. This means the tetsubo doesn´t fit. However I will purchase this model anyway.

It's a power club for intents and purposes. That fits the Iron Hands. 

[01RTB01]

2 hours ago, redmapa said:

 

I would disagree with the idea that a tetsubo does not fit with the Iron Hands, from the point of view of it being "asian" weapon sure BUT Iron Hands are known for their cold, remorseless, brutality and there is nothing more brutal than being beaten by a giant metal club AND like you said the Iron Hands names are greek in origin but it can also be seen as monsters, Medusa, Gorgon, Morlocks, Avernus are all connontations of monsters so having weapons that are known to be for monsters (Ogres in this case) fits fairly well imo, its a neat detail that adds a lot of character.

Iron Hands having Greek influences seems apt as their Primarch suffered with Achilles neck...

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

1 hour ago, SvenIronhand said:

It's the 41st Millennium. There's plenty of time for cultural admixture to have occurred. 

So you have nothing but your ideology to throw in? Not good enough.

[SvenIronhand]

Just now, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

So you have nothing but your ideology to throw in? Not good enough.

You're the one who made it about politics. But to keep us on topic, a good deal of the Iron Hands' naming in the novels I've read is either just straight fantastic crude-sounding syllables or vaguely late Roman or Southern Slavic sounding, like with Anatolus Gdolkin. Now, while those cultures were in the Hellenic sphere, they're hardly just Greek. That's a surface-level reading of the Iron Hands based on unit names. If I were to actually compare the Medusans and Iron Hands to any of the classical cultures in the Greek sphere, it would be the Thracians, not the Greeks themselves.  

And no, it isn't 'ideology' to suggest that human cultures mix, borrow, and lift elements from each other.

[Marshal Reinhard]

A tetsubo is just an ancient earth club design in the 41st millennium. A society does not have to be "Space Asians" (really, Space Japan specifically) to make use of the design or for it to fit. The design's been used before, like this Ravenwing "power maul" can attest to.

 

 

Iron hands don't really borrow much elements from ancient Greece beyond names either. Their cultural kit is more futuristic by being about steel, machinery and robotics. What club design would specifically fit them in that case?

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Regardless.  It looks dumb and I will convert the hell out of it when the time comes.

[Orange Knight]

3 hours ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

Regardless.  It looks dumb and I will convert the hell out of it when the time comes.

 

I really like the new Iron Hands character. Serious, understated, and conveys his role as a planner and tactician.

 

He looks more like a Horus Heresy consul, and I like that.

[Brother Tyler]

Regarding Caanok Var's maul, while I can see why people are referring to it as a tetsubō, I see it more as just a brutal Adeptus Astartes upscaling of the mauls used by the Adeptus Arbites (see the Subductor and the Proctor-Exactant). While the tetsubō (or kanabō) is an apt description of Var's maul, spiked/studded clubs were used by numerous cultures around the world. Moreover, while one can see some influences from Ancient Greece in the Iron Hands Legion/Chapter, there are many other influences. When the 3rd edition Index Astartes article was published for the Chapter, few would have pointed to Ancient Greece as the primary thematic influence. For those who choose to focus on Ancient Greece as the core influence for their Iron Hands models, the easy thematic justification for Var's maul would be Heracles and his club. Var's maul might be described as a hi-tech version of that demigod's weapon.

 

Regardless, thematic influences are rarely, if ever, limiting factors on the forces of the setting. The most nuanced representations incorporate multiple influences to create more sophisticated entities, avoiding the pitfall of simplistic "X in space" caricatures. So even if one sees Ancient Greece as the primary influence for the Iron Hands (I would point to the Minotaurs, Iron Snakes, and Ultramarines as the more obvious inheritors of such a theme), that doesn't mean that the Iron Hands necessarily need to be limited to and by that theme. Allowing the incorporation of elements from other sources would provide more depth and character, allowing the Iron Hands to be more than just the Argonauts in space. Everyone is entitled to do their own thing with their models, however, so it's fine for one player to impose an Ancient Greece limit and just as fine for another player to allow other influences.

 

Getting back to the miniatures...

 

I think the Vulkan He'Stan model is a huge improvement over the previous model. I have always hated the Gauntlet of the Forge because the placement under the forearm seems like it would be uncomfortable.

 

I'm a fan of the new Darnath Lysander. The proportions are much better, of course, since they bring him in line with the newer Terminators. The chest is less fiddly (easier to paint, cleaner to look at). I also think that the hammer is an improvement over the first model's hammer. As a big fan of the VIIth Legion, I know that this model will definitely be joining my collection (in addition to two of the old Lysander models ).

 

I'm not up to the Aethon Shan lore, but I like that GW has created a situation where a leader has stepped down in favor of another - it gives a depth of character [to Shrike]. And while I love the fact that all of the models (minus Caanok Var?) shown have both bare heads and helmets, I really like that Shaan comes with two bare heads. I can see these becoming fodder for conversions. At the very least, this model gives Raven Guard players the quintessential thematic loadout for their Chapter Master. And the fact that GW has given Raven Guard players a way to model for advantage is telling.

 

Caanok Var is the most interesting to me. I see the static pose as exhibiting the Chapter's stoicism. The weapon, too, is interesting, implying directness and brutality. And while I don't dislike it, I can see why some would. Luckily, it looks like it will be pretty easy to convert into a hammer, an axe, a sword, or even a polearm. One thing I really love about the character/model is that GW has given Iron Hands players a Warhammer 40,000 setting character that fulfills the 3rd edition lore about the Chapter and its Terminators.

 

Suboden Khan is a standout for me. While I was a little surprised by the grav-bike at first, it fit well with the Primaris technology advancements. I'm sure that Dark Angels fans are hoping that we'll see an update of Sammael on a brand spanking new grav-bike. And while power lances have been a thing for the White Scars since 3rd edition, I've always preferred swords (scimitar/sabre) for the White Scars in representing the Mongol theme. I don't hate the power lance, but it always seemed to me that a two-handed slashing weapon (which that power lance clearly is) would be difficult to wield while mounted. A proper lance (i.e., a thrusting/piercing weapon) would be more easily used, but that would be more in keeping with a force themed on the Franks. At this point, I'm betting that a sword-like weapon was ruled out to distinguish this model from an upcoming (hopefully) update of Sammael. My issue with the form of the power "lance" is where my earlier comments about complex themes comes in, I suppose. I've never really been a fan of Chapters having unique vehicles, though I can get behind unique modifications/variants. I hope that grav-bikes become more widespread across the Adeptus Astartes.

 

For those lamenting that other Chapters weren't included in this release, I think this batch was spot-on for representing the non-Big Five "First Founding" Chapters. The other "First Founding" Chapters already have plenty of their own models already. While it would be great for them to get more, I suppose, it's even better for GW to share the love with other Chapters. It would be great for some other Chapters to get some attention, too, but I think it's right that they're lower on the prioritization.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

I don't dislike it because its visual representation draws from any culture not normally associated with the chapter; I dislike it because it's just a damn club.  Traditional chapter weaponry is the power axe and thunder hammer, so that's what I'm going to give him.

[Orange Knight]

I agree that the Grav bike is a big winner.

 

I'm really hoping we get a full unit of these bikes in the future. I have no issue in them existing alongside the Outriders as a precedent for this already happened with the Horus Heresy. 

 

I love the fact that the bike isn't using a clear flight stand, I'd much rather they were skimming low to the ground. I really dislike the flightstands on the custodes bikes and even more so on the Inceptors.

 

11 hours ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

I don't dislike it because its visual representation draws from any culture not normally associated with the chapter; I dislike it because it's just a damn club.  Traditional chapter weaponry is the power axe and thunder hammer, so that's what I'm going to give him.

 

I think his weapon will just end up being some fancy power maul.

 

But looking at the model and pose, in this particular case it looks especially easy to replace.

[Nephaston]

48 minutes ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

I dislike it because it's just a damn club.

That's a perfectly valid reason to swap bits.

 

49 minutes ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

Traditional chapter weaponry is the power axe and thunder hammer, so that's what I'm going to give him.

Isn't that just stereotyping? Or am I getting my fallacies mixed up?