40k First Founding Champions + Combat Patrols

[Scribe]

As long as he doesn't want the IH to get back in touch with their feels, he's good to go.

[ArcusArmis]

Whilst the club doesn't feel very Space Marine-y, It feels very thematic and its cool as hell imo.

Its a Brutalist weapon that calls back to the Iron Hands' Heritage of the techno barbarian clans of Medusa. It feels like a relic weapon from a clan's ancient armory.

I feels like it wouldn't fit most chapters or even characters, but it feels very Iron Handsy in a new way.

[Joe]

It's definitely odd to see a kanabō on an Iron Hand, however I do sort of vibe with it.

 

[Iron Father Ferrum]

10 hours ago, Nephaston said:

That's a perfectly valid reason to swap bits.

 

Isn't that just stereotyping? Or am I getting my fallacies mixed up?

 

Not stereotype.  "Standard issue."

 

8 hours ago, sitnam said:

 

I don't think either weapon is particularly unique to the Iron Hands. There is also no reason a character can't have unique weaponry distinct from their chapter. I don't associate power axes with the Blood Angels but Dantes is iconic.

 

Not liking it is perfectly valid..I personally think power clubs are a perfect fit for IH

 

I never said unique.  I said "normally associated with the chapter."  Go looking at official art and official models, and you'll see LOTS of power axes and thunder hammers.  There's been three Iron Father models -- 3rd edition pewter, Cataphractii resin, and Feirros -- and all have power axes.  The 3rd edition pewter/Finecast squad kit came with a thunder hammer.  Gorgon Terminators have power axes.  Big daddy Ferrus carried a hammer.  Dip into literature, and the Iron Father in Wrath of Iron carried a thunder hammer (though admittedly Rauth carried a power sword) and the cover art of Eye of Medusa & Voice of Mars show Stronos carrying a power axe.

 

So yeah.  Axes & hammers are associated with the Chapter.  Tetsubos are not.  I think axes & hammers are cool.  I think tetsubos are not.  Ergo, I will update his weapon to be an axe or hammer.

[chapter master 454]

I mean...I don't think there have been tetsubo shown in many incarnations. Saying it doesn't work because it hasn't been shown before is a rather daft thing because that means before vulkan he'stan we were never shown salamanders with spears...but he had one so ergo should be updated with a thunder hammer because that is what ALL salamanders use...which they don't.

 

I think the club adds an air to the character. It tells you about the character and their preferences and how they do things. He is standing, observing and directing but yet despite this outwardly calm and possibly serene posture is juxtaposed tetsubo, a brutal and unforgiving weapon belying a cold and ruthless mentality.

If it were an axe or sword it wouldn't work, nor would a hammer. This weapon tells us about the character by being minimal about it. Being efficient at it. How very logical. Feels on point to me and looks great.

 

However your model, your world. Have fun but I think maybe it is time to step away from the discussion frater as you seem to be being a little wound up about it. Then again, not the first disgruntled comments as Shan has drawn some ire it seems...but I think he looks good as long as he keeps the helmet on!

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

18 hours ago, sitnam said:

 

I don't think either weapon is particularly unique to the Iron Hands. There is also no reason a character can't have unique weaponry distinct from their chapter. I don't associate power axes with the Blood Angels but Dantes is iconic.

 

Not liking it is perfectly valid..I personally think power clubs are a perfect fit for IH

The original 40K Iron Hands set came with a thunder hammer for the sergeant. The Primarch wields a thunder hammer. The Gorgon terminators in 30K wield power axes. Sorry pal, no tetsubos in sight. 

 

21 hours ago, Iron Father Ferrum said:

I don't dislike it because its visual representation draws from any culture not normally associated with the chapter; I dislike it because it's just a damn club.  Traditional chapter weaponry is the power axe and thunder hammer, so that's what I'm going to give him.

The high-tech chapter gets a brutish club. Let that sink in. The obvious choice would have been a weird sci-fi gun but a run-of-the-mill storm bolter is good enough for the first captain of the Avernii clan. If you look up disgrace in the dictionary this character shows up.

[Marshal Reinhard]

24 minutes ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

The high-tech chapter gets a brutish club. Let that sink in. The obvious choice would have been a weird sci-fi gun but a run-of-the-mill storm bolter is good enough for the first captain of the Avernii clan. If you look up disgrace in the dictionary this character shows up.

I suppose you care nothing for the juxtaposition then?, cold calculating machine man, brutal looking beat stick?

 

Regardless, I guess my own blunt opinion on the matter is that I don't think the Iron Hands has much of a historically anchored culture to begin with. Any crushing instrument design will thus fit. A single weapon also does not provide nearly as strong a link as I feel you're suggesting.

 

Ultimately though I don't think anyone here actually has much input with what you do with your minis, perhaps more about the fervor and certainty your proclaim the choice anathema.

[Scribe]

I'm all for setting up a position on a hill, but I guess my own read on the Iron Hands just say's "brutal efficiency" and less 'super high tech'.

 

Cold, detached, brutal.

 

Wrath of Iron.

 

Of all these new characters/models, the IH is my jam, the primaris jetbike is hideous as all the primaris grav vehicles are, and the RG guy is perfectly on brand for Gen Z going back to the styles of a few decades ago.

 

Yes, the IH is the winner in my book.

[sitnam]

1 hour ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

The original 40K Iron Hands set came with a thunder hammer for the sergeant. The Primarch wields a thunder hammer. The Gorgon terminators in 30K wield power axes. Sorry pal, no tetsubos in sight. 

 Sanguinius wielded a spear and sword. Sanguinary guard wielrd spears and swords. Why doesn't Dante have a sword or spear? Does his iconic weapon not fit within the "traditional" weapons of the chapter?

 

Its perfectly fine if you prefer power axes and thunder hammers. But given the popularity of both weapons amongst the Astartes, I don't find either particularly interesting to set apart a new Iron Hand character. Imperial Fists and Salamanders also iconic TH users. Space Wolves and Ultramarines (to a lesser extent) uses power axes. I personally think a big, brutish power club is perfectly in line with the aesthetics of the Iron Hands. 

 

Am I biased because clubs and maces are my favorite melee weapons, and I think thunder hammers look dumb? Absolutely.

 

I'd also love some high-tech gun for him to be perfectly fair. It's always bothered me that the HH kind of showed the Dark Angels as the high tech legion.

[Scribe]

9 minutes ago, sitnam said:

I'd also love some high-tech gun for him to be perfectly fair. It's always bothered me that the HH kind of showed the Dark Angels as the high tech legion.

 

Thats because I dont think IH ARE the high tech legion.

 

;)

[Morovir]

In fairness, the most iconic Medusan weapon in the Horus Heresy books is the Medusan Zweihander, a weapon that is just as Greek as the Tetsubo. The truth is, the Iron Hands have never had much of a cohesive iconic weapon other than Iron Hands = Mechanicus = Cog power axes and one thunder hammer from a 20+ year old upgrade kit. The Greek theming doesn't go beyond the name Medusa and the Gorgon, and it could be argued that they have just as much Scottish influence from the clan companies, and the pre-Primarch origins in Old Albia. Combined with Medusa apparently having Zweihanders, we have a Greek named world with Scottish themed clans and Germanic weapons - can we really argue that the addition of Japanese theming is truly so much of a departure from their existing cultural melting pot of an identity?

[Marshal Reinhard]

5 minutes ago, Morovir said:

In fairness, the most iconic Medusan weapon in the Horus Heresy books is the Medusan Zweihander, a weapon that is just as Greek as the Tetsubo. The truth is, the Iron Hands have never had much of a cohesive iconic weapon other than Iron Hands = Mechanicus = Cog power axes and one thunder hammer from a 20+ year old upgrade kit. The Greek theming doesn't go beyond the name Medusa and the Gorgon, and it could be argued that they have just as much Scottish influence from the clan companies, and the pre-Primarch origins in Old Albia. Combined with Medusa apparently having Zweihanders, we have a Greek named world with Scottish themed clans and Germanic weapons - can we really argue that the addition of Japanese theming is truly so much of a departure from their existing cultural melting pot of an identity?

Even calling the addition of a single weapon "japanese themeing" is a stretch.

[Morovir]

Exactly - it's precisely the same amount of influence that they get from any of their other cultural influences (i e very little), and so defines them just as much 

[Matcap86]

Leaving all the culture purity nonsense aside. There's a ton of references in the books to practice cages having every variant of weapon they could think/know of to practice with.

 

The idea that marines would go: "wait that specific weapon?? No no no, that's cultural appropriation, we don't practice with those." Is just silly.

[Lord_Ikka]

=][= Keep the topic on track and constructive- discussion about various chapter culture and what is deemed more "appropriate" or common is perfectly fine. What is not fine, are personal attacks or the idea that there is only "one way" to hobby. Carry on. =][=

[Wispy]

17 hours ago, Joe said:

It's definitely odd to see a kanabō on an Iron Hand, however I do sort of vibe with it.

 

Of course the Iron Hands are weebs, Ghost in the Shell is part of their holy tomes.

 

Seriously though I think the simple brutality of the tetsubo marries well with the Technocool aspect of the Iron Hands.  You can see those studs as a sort of shock-disk that emit concussive shockwaves when they strike. it's a cool unique weapon for the Iron Hands that we haven't seen in Space Marines before. The Iron Hands are the most undeveloped of the First Founding chapters in the terms of miniatures and design elements so they've done well finding something unique here.

Edited 17 hours ago by Wispy

[HeadlessCross]

9 hours ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

The original 40K Iron Hands set came with a thunder hammer for the sergeant. The Primarch wields a thunder hammer. The Gorgon terminators in 30K wield power axes. Sorry pal, no tetsubos in sight. 

 

The high-tech chapter gets a brutish club. Let that sink in. The obvious choice would have been a weird sci-fi gun but a run-of-the-mill storm bolter is good enough for the first captain of the Avernii clan. If you look up disgrace in the dictionary this character shows up.

What an absurd argument. Are Alpha Legion using Spears and Axes as standard because their special Terminators and Primarch in 30k used them? Ya know, stuff that didn't exist until a decade or so ago?