Kill Team Kill Team: Tomb World (Primaris Deathwatch vs Canoptek Circle)

[TheMawr]

19 minutes ago, Jukkiz said:

this might be offtopic, BUT?!

Is it better for the game itself to GW keep making fomo boxes instead of mkaing the box available with separate killteams arriving like month later for purchase? 

 

Right now its FOMO box with the contents seperate roughly 3 months later wich makes it all the harsher.

 

Keeping it a limited box but have the seperate content pop up very shortly after ( or even at the same time.. the boxes will still sell out relatively fast for the discount, but it will be a little less attractive for scalpers as the seperate contents cant be sold at a markup, its only attractive for friends who split or people who want everything.) is a solution that would be "healthier" without extra production strain. imho the only losers in such a scenario are scalpers.

 

it really suprises me, because the situation right now is also the situation that hurts GW the most, because a lot are not going to wait the 3 months to finally play.. for some the newness hype will have long faded, for others they will just proxy the team, and after the effort put in that.. might not buy the team when it is finally released.

 

 

[Ahzek451]

Seems glitchy. Had a friend add to cart and process payment but then get an error message saying insufficient stock. But its still showing available on website. 

[Alby the Slayer]

At this point I'm starting to see malice in this type of behaviour from GW, not only incompetence.

 

If someone is doing this on purpose they deserve to make a warp travel somewhere. With Gellar Field down.

 

I'm joking but come on... what is the joy to waiting for something in your hobby but in fear to never get it? Or have to pay stupid scalpers?

 

As someone said this is rather good in the end, cause I can save up some money, if you want to see the positive side.

[lansalt]

4 minutes ago, Ahzek451 said:

Seems glitchy. Had a friend add to cart and process payment but then get an error message saying insufficient stock. But its still showing available on website. 

This is what happened to me this morning, and later the box became out of stock. My bank account registered the payment, but my order is missing, I didn't receive a confirmation email from GW and I'm waiting for their customer support to fix it or give me back my money.

[fudblinker]

1 hour ago, lansalt said:

This is what happened to me this morning, and later the box became out of stock. My bank account registered the payment, but my order is missing, I didn't receive a confirmation email from GW and I'm waiting for their customer support to fix it or give me back my money.

Same issue here where it completed things on PayPal’s side, then I got the error saying there was “insufficient stock of some items in my cart and those items were removed”. And even after that it was still showing available in stock for several minutes.

Edited Saturday at 06:38 PM by fudblinker

[Ahzek451]

I tried it myself to see if it work for me. Nope. I am really sick of these website issues, and above all, limited stock/FOMO. This is just murdering good will. 

[Ahzek451]

1 hour ago, TheMawr said:

 

Right now its FOMO box with the contents seperate roughly 3 months later wich makes it all the harsher.

 

Keeping it a limited box but have the seperate content pop up very shortly after ( or even at the same time.. the boxes will still sell out relatively fast for the discount, but it will be a little less attractive for scalpers as the seperate contents cant be sold at a markup, its only attractive for friends who split or people who want everything.) is a solution that would be "healthier" without extra production strain. imho the only losers in such a scenario are scalpers.

 

it really suprises me, because the situation right now is also the situation that hurts GW the most, because a lot are not going to wait the 3 months to finally play.. for some the newness hype will have long faded, for others they will just proxy the team, and after the effort put in that.. might not buy the team when it is finally released.

 

 

Well, it killed interest in my friend and I from playing/acquiring this. We were going to split the teams. Even if this comes out a few months down the road I do not see us having interest. 

[INKS]

They are a multi billion dollar company who can't figure their website out, and who cater to scalpers. They give all of their influences product to review and help sell but everything is sold out. They under produce on purpose and leave your LGS lacking in stock and won't help them fulfill orders. Not just on this box but many before and many after. 

 

And I am just as bad because I feed into it, at least with Votann.... 

[Indy Techwisp]

Y'know, if any killteam box would be scalped, it'd be the one that has the Game's namesake in it.

[lhg033]

I was late to the party in signing up for the register of interest so the chances were low anyway and then was away over the weekend so have only just checked my email:

 

"

Thank you very much for filling out our Register of Interest for this week's preorders.

 

Unfortunately due to very harsh allocations from Games Workshop we will not be able to fulfil your request on this occasion.

"

 

The fact that the reseller is saying there were harsh allocations from GW really puts me off. This happened with Gallowdark and it pretty much killed Kill team for me at the time.

This with the price rises are really making me consider pivoting my hobby time into something else for a while. I'll at the very least be refocusing om my pile of 'potential' more again which is no bad thing.

 

I have far exceeded my hobby budget this year so its probably a good thing for my wallet to step back

[INKS]

59 minutes ago, lhg033 said:

I was late to the party in signing up for the register of interest so the chances were low anyway and then was away over the weekend so have only just checked my email:

 

"

Thank you very much for filling out our Register of Interest for this week's preorders.

 

Unfortunately due to very harsh allocations from Games Workshop we will not be able to fulfil your request on this occasion.

"

 

The fact that the reseller is saying there were harsh allocations from GW really puts me off. This happened with Gallowdark and it pretty much killed Kill team for me at the time.

This with the price rises are really making me consider pivoting my hobby time into something else for a while. I'll at the very least be refocusing om my pile of 'potential' more again which is no bad thing.

 

I have far exceeded my hobby budget this year so its probably a good thing for my wallet to step back

would it be better if they said nothing, and just "sorry could not fill order?"  Personally I want to know it's GWs fault and not the retailers. 

[lhg033]

True but I've had a standard 'sorry we could not fill your order' on a number of other things perfectly fairly and I think the fact they have chosen to add the comment is more a reflection on this case. If i end up in store at some point soon I may ask them how many they were provided. They have always been quite open on this sort of stuff.

[Antarius]

My guess is the limitations on stock are due to production bottlenecks, more than actual incompetence (not to mention malice, which I think is way off - they're a company, so on the one hand it's not like their heart beats warmly for you, but otoh they do want you to be a satisfied customer, at least enough to keep buying their stuff and they certainly gain nothing by annoying you or making you assoicate their brand with bad things). I mean the FOMO is definitely real, but I can't recall ever seeing them do actual FOMO marketing - and in any case, they'd make more money selling more products than they do selling fewer products. So I'm guessing they just can't make enough of those products at present and/or they think they'll make more by selling the parts individually down the road.

I certainly think having the "big boxes" and the individual Kill Teams available at the same time (or at the very least with much shorter intervals) would be a much better move, both when it comes to PR and making money. I mean, apart from having fewer angry customers and more actual customers, the savings from the big box would seem like a better deal next to the individual boxes and would probably drive sales, plus people wouldn't have to wait for the new teams and realise they might not actually want them once they're less new and shiny (ironically, I guess you could say there might actually be less FOMO under the current model, because people realise they don't actually need to fear missing out in the months between the big box and the subsequent individual releases and just skip the purchases altogether). So, I'm guessing it's mostly that they have a limited amount of product that they can put out, if they want to put something out every week.

I guess they might be able to put the big box out one week and then the individual teams next week, but maybe that would mess with their weekly release "rotation" between different games - come to think of it that weekly rotation is probably where I see their "hype machine" as having more of an impact on release schedules, because they seem to really feel the need to not keep any game system out of their customers minds for more than a couple of weeks at a time (I'm thinking of Specialist Games as one system here, as that's how it seems placed in their rotation). Personally, I think that's a bit of a mistake, but then, I'm not a marketing guy (for better or worse).

[Karhedron]

I think production bottlenecks are likely. We know for a fact from their annual report that GW's production capacity is currently maxed out and they are looking to build another factory on their site to increase capacity. GW have been struggling to meet demand since lockdown so I think it is simply a case of them not being able to mold sprues fast enough to meet demand.

[Lord Marshal]

24 minutes ago, Antarius said:

I certainly think having the "big boxes" and the individual Kill Teams available at the same time (or at the very least with much shorter intervals) would be a much better move, both when it comes to PR and making money. I mean, apart from having fewer angry customers and more actual customers, the savings from the big box would seem like a better deal next to the individual boxes and would probably drive sales, plus people wouldn't have to wait for the new teams and realise they might not actually want them once they're less new and shiny (ironically, I guess you could say there might actually be less FOMO under the current model, because people realise they don't actually need to fear missing out in the months between the big box and the subsequent individual releases and just skip the purchases altogether). So, I'm guessing it's mostly that they have a limited amount of product that they can put out, if they want to put something out every week.

 

Heresy has, for the most part, either had standalone boxes drop at the same time as the FOMO boxes or release just a week or two after, so it's not something that GW are entirely adverse to. Why they don't take that approach with their non-Specialist Games systems is... probably up for debate.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 10:53 AM by Lord Marshal

[lhg033]

I get the why it may have happened but the result for me is I am much less likely to buy a separate kill team vs buying the big boxes.
I am very, very unlikely to buy the books or terrain separately. The value in the big box is what works for me so for me they have completely missed out on the sale for this and the future products from the components found in this box and as mentioned, it puts a dampener on the rest of kill team for me. I am less likely to invest on the rest of this season having missed the first box part of it. My views arent going to change GWs release strategy or production issues but it is another thing making me seriously reconsider where my hobby interests lie going forward. 
 

[INKS]

2 hours ago, Antarius said:

My guess is the limitations on stock are due to production bottlenecks, more than actual incompetence (not to mention malice, which I think is way off - they're a company, so on the one hand it's not like their heart beats warmly for you, but otoh they do want you to be a satisfied customer, at least enough to keep buying their stuff and they certainly gain nothing by annoying you or making you assoicate their brand with bad things). I mean the FOMO is definitely real, but I can't recall ever seeing them do actual FOMO marketing - and in any case, they'd make more money selling more products than they do selling fewer products. So I'm guessing they just can't make enough of those products at present and/or they think they'll make more by selling the parts individually down the road.

I certainly think having the "big boxes" and the individual Kill Teams available at the same time (or at the very least with much shorter intervals) would be a much better move, both when it comes to PR and making money. I mean, apart from having fewer angry customers and more actual customers, the savings from the big box would seem like a better deal next to the individual boxes and would probably drive sales, plus people wouldn't have to wait for the new teams and realise they might not actually want them once they're less new and shiny (ironically, I guess you could say there might actually be less FOMO under the current model, because people realise they don't actually need to fear missing out in the months between the big box and the subsequent individual releases and just skip the purchases altogether). So, I'm guessing it's mostly that they have a limited amount of product that they can put out, if they want to put something out every week.

I guess they might be able to put the big box out one week and then the individual teams next week, but maybe that would mess with their weekly release "rotation" between different games - come to think of it that weekly rotation is probably where I see their "hype machine" as having more of an impact on release schedules, because they seem to really feel the need to not keep any game system out of their customers minds for more than a couple of weeks at a time (I'm thinking of Specialist Games as one system here, as that's how it seems placed in their rotation). Personally, I think that's a bit of a mistake, but then, I'm not a marketing guy (for better or worse).

I don't doubt production bottlenecks. However, what they could do and have done in the past is say "everyone gets one who wants one" which stops a little of this scalping none sense if you are patient enough. If I want one and have to wait until wave 3, then so be it. I will. But they don't do this. they FOMO it. If you don't get one... well then you didn't get one. And to make it worse, sometimes you don't get one because their on website is the problem... it is frustrating for sure. 

[Ripper.McGuirl]

The only consolation is that they put the rules up for free very quickly. But that doesnt help if you want the terrain.

The fact is: this is how they do it. They underproduce so they sell through everything and it doesnt sit around taking up space. To their eye, they aren’t mossing sales or alienating people, they are knocking it out of the park by selling through everything. It’s possible this will be around longer as a “season opener”, but that’s unknown.

[Mmmmm Napalm]

Oof, just looked at eBay. Correct me if I'm wrong but it's been a while since theres been a box with scalping issues this bad. I hadnt planned on purchasing the box but figured I'd be able to find someone to split the box with. A quick look at eBay has disabused me of that notion.

 

Like others have said, it wouldn't be such a big deal if the release gap between box sets and standalone KT's wasn't so long.

[ZeroWolf]

1 hour ago, INKS said:

I don't doubt production bottlenecks. However, what they could do and have done in the past is say "everyone gets one who wants one" which stops a little of this scalping none sense if you are patient enough. If I want one and have to wait until wave 3, then so be it. I will. But they don't do this. they FOMO it. If you don't get one... well then you didn't get one. And to make it worse, sometimes you don't get one because their on website is the problem... it is frustrating for sure. 

Sadly made to orders also take production time away, hence why current made to order timings are either individual miniatures or done in times where there's a slight lull (like the warhammer 40k 3rd edition set if I recall). Basically made to orders have to be carefully managed to fit their timescales.

[Casual Heresy]

43 minutes ago, Mmmmm Napalm said:

Oof, just looked at eBay. Correct me if I'm wrong but it's been a while since theres been a box with scalping issues this bad. I hadnt planned on purchasing the box but figured I'd be able to find someone to split the box with. A quick look at eBay has disabused me of that notion.

 

Like others have said, it wouldn't be such a big deal if the release gap between box sets and standalone KT's wasn't so long.

 

Yeah. I was planning on picking up the Deathwatch seperately on eBay since I am tempted by the full box, but can't justify the expense and space it would take up. But £70 average for just the marines is a no go for me.

[phandaal]

4 hours ago, Karhedron said:

I think production bottlenecks are likely. We know for a fact from their annual report that GW's production capacity is currently maxed out and they are looking to build another factory on their site to increase capacity. GW have been struggling to meet demand since lockdown so I think it is simply a case of them not being able to mold sprues fast enough to meet demand.

 

Yeah they talk about capacity in pretty much every report to their investors.

 

On the other hand, no one is going to Nottingham and threatening GW to come up with more kill teams to release. This is a self inflicted problem.

 

They will be fine in the long run though I am sure. People are angry about not being able to spend more money on Warhammer, which is not the worst problem for a company to have.

[ThePenitentOne]

1 hour ago, Ripper.McGuirl said:

The only consolation is that they put the rules up for free very quickly. But that doesnt help if you want the terrain.

The fact is: this is how they do it. They underproduce so they sell through everything and it doesnt sit around taking up space. To their eye, they aren’t mossing sales or alienating people, they are knocking it out of the park by selling through everything. It’s possible this will be around longer as a “season opener”, but that’s unknown.

 

They do, but also they don't. You'll get the rules for each team, and fairly quickly and that's good.

 

But the campaign rules and NPO stuff? It's only available in the box, so not only does it not go up for free (ever); it's also not available (ever) if, like most players, you can't get your hands on FOMO box.

 

Funny, this actually provides an unexpected silver lining to the death of Spec Ops: If Spec Ops still existed, not having the damn book would bother me, because the Spec Ops content was always the coolest part of any team. Yes, I HATE that they removed Spec Ops, and yes I'd rather have it back... But at least the fact that it's gone means I won't really miss this book.

[Laurence]

6 hours ago, Lord Marshal said:

 

Heresy has, for the most part, either had standalone boxes drop at the same time as the FOMO boxes or release just a week or two after, so it's not something that GW are entirely adverse to. Why they don't take that approach with their non-Specialist Games systems is... probably up for debate.

 

 

Heresy is played with armies, where I player may want to pick up an extra squad alongside the big box, but with players of Kill Team there's little reason to double up.

[ThePenitentOne]

6 minutes ago, Laurence said:

Heresy is played with armies, where I player may want to pick up an extra squad alongside the big box, but with players of Kill Team there's little reason to double up.

Some teams require two boxes to get all the specialists- Inquisitorial Agents, I think Sactifiers. And some have multiple 40k units Arbites, Corsairs, Rogue Traders... I think there might be others in both of these categories, but those are the ones that come to mind for me. There are also some that you might want multiple boxes for 40k purposes, though this tends to be something that appeals to people who want a certain kind of army for fluff reasons rather than because they can win... Thinking about folks who want to replicate a lot and the damned army full of Beastmen and Renegade Guard- it won't win, but it would be cool and fluffy.

 

These are all edge cases of course- generally, your statement is true... But it is at least a bit more complex.