What are the thematic influences on the Iron Hands?

[Brother Tyler]

For those of you that haven't been keeping up on discussions in the + NEWS, RUMORS, AND BOARD ANNOUNCEMENTS + forum, a debate has sprung up around the thematic influences on the Iron Hands Legion/Chapter in the discussion about the latest models and combat patrols announced for the Imperial Fists, Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Salamanders, and White Scars Chapters. If you just crawled out from under a rock, you can see the announcement, which was part of the recent Big Summer Preview, here. The issue arises from the weapon that the new Iron Hands Iron Captain, Caanok Var, is bearing. To simplify things, the image is below.

 

(click the image to see the large version)

 

Many hobbyists have described the weapon as a tetsubō (or kanabō), the studded/spiked war club used in Feudal Japan, both in history as well as in legend (e.g., by the mythical oni). That is not an inaccurate description, though it should be remembered that studded/spiked war clubs were not confined to the Far East, having been used by various cultures across the world, not to mention primitive post-apocalyptic settings such as Neegan's Lucille. Examples can be found in pre-Columbian Mesoamerica, sub-Saharan Africa, across Europe (including Ancient Greece), etc. More importantly, Caanok Var's club includes stylistic choices that are reminiscent of the various mauls that are used by the Adeptus Arbites.

 

The controversy (okay, it's controversial to some, but not to others) stems from whether or not the club is accurate to the Legion's/Chapter's theme, whether you base that on the cultural influences that you perceive or from precedents from other Iron Hands models. Some people like (or accept) the club and others don't, and that's okay. The "debate" was becoming disruptive in the context of the NRBA discussion, but it's worth pursuing, so this topic has been created so that members can identify the various thematic influences they see on the Iron Hands Legion/Chapter and how those influences might be represented on models.

 

It is important to remember that while there are a few key elements of the Legion's/Chapter's theme, the overall theme of the Iron Hands is a lot more subtle and complex than some of the more overtly themed Chapters such as the Space Wolves and Blood Angels (both of which also have myriad other subtle influences woven into the more obvious elements). Different hobbyists are going to focus on different things, emphasizing those things and de-emphasizing other things. Where one hobbyist might see the Iron Hands being X, others may see them as being Y or Z. There is no right or wrong answer here.

[Karhedron]

While some Chapters have clear stylistic influences, Iron Hands are most obviously characterised by their bionic augmentation. I have not read a lot of Iron Hands lore but they never struck me as having a particular cultural style. The cogged axe fits with their Techmarine/Iron Father lore. I also power fists as being fitting because they looking striking painted in silver and emphasize the "Iron Hand" theme. Apart from that they seem a bit of a blank canvas.

[DemonGSides]

15 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

While some Chapters have clear stylistic influences, Iron Hands are most obviously characterised by their bionic augmentation. I have not read a lot of Iron Hands lore but they never struck me as having a particular cultural style. The cogged axe fits with their Techmarine/Iron Father lore. I also power fists as being fitting because they looking striking painted in silver and emphasize the "Iron Hand" theme. Apart from that they seem a bit of a blank canvas.

 

Agreed; i'm sure an IH mega-fan can point to something that they have IN LORE that might be a 'defining cultural heritage', in the same sense that White Scars are traditionally 'steppe rider' adjacent, at least in their practice of war and their interior chapter rituals.  But they have absolutely no OBVIOUS cultural tie in in that same vein based on their models or previously available artwork.  There's motif's; as mentioned, Bionics and 'The Flesh is Weak' is very strongly their theme, and a great exchange between them and the Adeptus Mechanicus is expected.  Their 'defining cultural heritage' to me IS the connection between them and the Adeptus Mechanicus, not really anything else; if there is something, it's either artfully hidden or not blatantly obvious, such as the White Scars, which are like, blatantly steppe riders and have just sort of ported that idea whole-sale into 40k.

I don't think it's any loss that the IH DON'T have a real world cultural heritage to lean on.  Things are more interesting when they're blended, if I wanted Greek Clans I can just go play a war-game set during that period.  If they wanted to MAKE the IH more Greek, that'd also be cool, but I think the big maul (Tetsubo adjacent, but obviously not a tetsubo, as the area to hold the weapons is much closer to "weird mace" territory) REALLY speaks to "Cold, Brutal, Iron" that Iron Hands DO exemplify.

Edited Wednesday at 05:06 PM by DemonGSides

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

 

Agreed; i'm sure an IH mega-fan can point to something that they have IN LORE that might be a 'defining cultural heritage', in the same sense that White Scars are traditionally 'steppe rider' adjacent, at least in their practice of war and their interior chapter rituals.  But they have absolutely no OBVIOUS cultural tie in in that same vein based on their models or previously available artwork.  There's motif's; as mentioned, Bionics and 'The Flesh is Weak' is very strongly their theme, and a great exchange between them and the Adeptus Mechanicus is expected.  Their 'defining cultural heritage' to me IS the connection between them and the Adeptus Mechanicus, not really anything else; if there is something, it's either artfully hidden or not blatantly obvious, such as the White Scars, which are like, blatantly steppe riders and have just sort of ported that idea whole-sale into 40k.

I don't think it's any loss that the IH DON'T have a real world cultural heritage to lean on.  Things are more interesting when they're blended, if I wanted Greek Clans I can just go play a war-game set during that period.  If they wanted to MAKE the IH more Greek, that'd also be cool, but I think the big maul (Tetsubo adjacent, but obviously not a tetsubo, as the area to hold the weapons is much closer to "weird mace" territory) REALLY speaks to "Cold, Brutal, Iron" that Iron Hands DO exemplify.

Yep, to me blunt force weapons just seem to fit them. Club, hammer, fists, all make sense for them to me.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

*cracks knuckles*

 

I remember the topic of thematic & cultural influences in the Iron Hands being one of the very first long conversations I had here with Bannus on the B&C like, twenty-ish years ago now.  My conclusion back then was that, as @Brother Tyler stated in the introduction, there is no centralized theming of the chapter.  The names in particular pull from a variety of cultural sources (Greek myth, Latin *coughhighgothic*, Biblical references, etc) and the culture is no different.  Its Terran founders draw heavily from Britain, the Clan structure and its feature of internecine squabbling speaks to the fractious nature of medieval-era Scotland, and yet on Medusa we're met with nomadic clans, techno-barbarism, and a German weapon name (Medusan zweihander).

 

So yeah.  The Iron Hands are unlike some of the more monolithic cultural references of other Legions that are dominated by a single culture.

 

But here's the thing.  That's all window dressing.  Having a canon character named Gabriel, and another with a sci-fi gobbly-gook name like Gdolkin, just means writers are not constrained in picking names or references for people and objects.  And in that sense, Caanok Var's tetsubo is perfectly allowable.  The history of warfare is just inventing new ways to hit people with sticks, and a stick with metal on the end for extra mass probably predates written language.  I call it a tetsubo instead of a club because the visual reference is obviously that of the tetsubo/kanobo, a medieval Japanese weapon.  European maces tended to use flanges and spikes instead of rows of studs; while I'm certain there were some simple metal-plated or studded clubs used in European warfare, the cultural reference for Var's weapon is Japanese -- and anyone saying otherwise is being dishonest.  Look at the discourse for the weapon anywhere on social media -- here, Facebook, wherever -- and it's being called a tetsubo or kanobo by the majority of folks.  So, while Japanese -- or even East Asian as a whole -- references have never before been made for the Iron Hands, it's not that big of a deal because of their cultural mishmash.  That's also not my reason for disliking it.

 

The monolithic cultural theme of the Iron Hands is technology.  Every Chapter uses cybernetics to get wounded Astartes back into the fight quickly, but the Iron Hands seek out cybernetic or augmetic replacement.  They desire it, removing perfectly healthy and functioning body parts for replacing them with technologically advanced parts.  Every Chapter has a relationship with the Adeptus Mechanicus, which is the last word in tech in the Imperium; even if the Chapter needs no aid in manufacturing weapons, equipment, and vehicles, they all send tech-savvy members to the AdMech for Techmarine training.  But the Iron Hands are even closer, sending more Marines to Mars than other Chapters, and these members get more in-depth training than those of other Chapters.  Every Chapter (even those who have distaste for them, like the White Scars), use Dreadnoughts.  The Iron Hands don't just use them, they revere them as a technological marvel that blends man and machine into a single, indomitable weapon.  "The Salamanders are a technologically savvy Chapter too!" I hear you say, and you're half-right.  Both Chapters have a theme of forging weapons buried in the lore somewhere, but the difference is that Salamanders are craftsmen.  They make weapons that are master-crafted and beautiful, but it's smithing.  It's a Salamander making a weapon.  The Iron Hands don't generally care too much about craftsmanship.  They're too focused on efficiency.  The difference between between Salamander and Iron Hand is the difference between a workshop and factory.

 

The thematic close combat weapons for the Iron Hands are axes and hammers.  Yes, they're pretty standard.  Every Chapter uses both of those; the Salamanders have perhaps a stronger preference for hammers than the Iron Hands, but no one's making an argument for uniqueness.  I making an argument to theme.  Ferrus Manus used a hammer for most, if not all, of the Great Crusade, and GW wanted to give the Chapter that theme with the 3rd Edition-era upgrade kit including a thunder hammer for the squad sergeant.  The Iron Father character from Wrath of Iron also wielded a thunder hammer.  It is a weapon themed into the Chapter's lore, and it speaks back to the technology theme because of the "forge" discussion -- workshop or factory, hammers are used to forge weapons in both.  The other thematic weapon is the axe, specifically the power axe.  We have three Iron Father models (3rd Edition special character, HH Terminator character, and Feirros) and all carry power axes.  Our 40K melee weapon relic -- when relics were a thing -- was an axe.  Art for our current-day Chapter leadership, Kardan Stronos, always shows him carrying a power axe (the cover art for Eye of Medusa and Voice of Mars, and then his big art piece with all the servoarms).  Hell, the leaked HH3.0 rules give us an improved power axe for our Chapter's unique melee weapon.  And because the axe is the preferred weapon of the Adeptus Mechanicus, we come back, once more, to the Chapter's theme being technology.

 

When I first learned of and became a fan of the Chapter back in the early 2000's -- they're the first entry in Index Astartes III, the first non-codex 40K book I ever bought -- I always thought the power fist would be the thematic weapon for the Chapter.  They're called Iron Hands after all.  But no, the power axe because of the link to the AdMech and the thunder hammer because they're emulating their "I can forge weapons with my hands" gene-father who carried a hammer.

 

The tetsubo and hammer are, at their most basic, simple bludgeoning weapons.  Both can be fitted with power field generators.  The difference isn't in the technology used, the difference is in the theme: one's just a club, the other is a thematic symbol of Ferrus "I made high-tech weapons for my brother Primarchs" Manus.

 

That's why I think Var's tetsubo is a dumb choice and I will be converting it to an axe or hammer, period.

[Marshal Reinhard]

Disagree that the tetsubo is just a club, while a hammer would have some higher symbolic meaning, wether Ferrus used a hammer or not. Agreed with the rest of the post.

 

Don't care what anyone does with their models though.

[Felix Antipodes]

In my headcanon I’m calling the tetsubo some kind of symbol of rank (like a sceptre) we hadn’t seen before.  He will be carrying a power axe into battle though.

 

I do agree that GW missed a trick by not making power fists their weapon of choice, especially wrt characters.

[Captain Idaho]

Theme matters. As an Ultramarines player, I like the Greco-Roman heritage that was culturally important to all of them. Originally. Now that has been diminished by what represents the Ultramarines by GW media and product releases.

 

Ultramarines with katanas? No thank you. Sure, someone can show me a single historical example that might show a warrior using a non Greco-Roman weapon. Maybe. But the exception is irrelevant for overall representation of theme and narrative.

 

GW produce few special characters, so they should be exemplary to their theme and narrative or what's the point right?

 

If people want to represent a different weapon or genetic lineage or whatever in their White Scars, sure go for it. It's your head canon and enjoy! But the stock narrative remains and SHOULD exist.

 

If we remove the Greco-Roman from Ultramarines, for example, then what are they culturally?

[Marshal Reinhard]

Apples and oranges. The Greco-Roman theme is way way more pronounced for ultramarines than any historical theme is for Iron Hands, making it a stilted comparison in my view.

 

EDIT: Culturally, I'd like to claim that rather than any historical anchor, the iron hands are THE adeptus mechanicus chapter. Machines, robotics, cybernetics, adhoc alterations are the norm for the chapter. Thus, any variety of weapons designs fit them to a t. Tetsubos, hammers, yes even *gasp* a katana would fit them, as long as its portrayed with technological gubbins and alterations.

Edited 20 hours ago by Marshal Reinhard

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah, to be fair I can't argue from a position of any real depth regarding Iron Hands background, in fact, I thought Manus was Albion/British in his depictions!

 

So broadly speaking I would say let's emphasise the cultural (and in some aspects too, racial) identity of a faction in official models in a general sense.

 

As for Iron Hands... I have little idea of the correct approach as not sure what their identification is synonymous with in real depth. Probably not ancient Japanese but again, just spitballing there?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 7/24/2025 at 7:58 PM, Iron Father Ferrum said:

*cracks knuckles*

 

I remember the topic of thematic & cultural influences in the Iron Hands being one of the very first long conversations I had here with Bannus on the B&C like, twenty-ish years ago now.  My conclusion back then was that, as @Brother Tyler stated in the introduction, there is no centralized theming of the chapter.  The names in particular pull from a variety of cultural sources (Greek myth, Latin *coughhighgothic*, Biblical references, etc) and the culture is no different.  Its Terran founders draw heavily from Britain, the Clan structure and its feature of internecine squabbling speaks to the fractious nature of medieval-era Scotland, and yet on Medusa we're met with nomadic clans, techno-barbarism, and a German weapon name (Medusan zweihander).

 

So yeah.  The Iron Hands are unlike some of the more monolithic cultural references of other Legions that are dominated by a single culture.

 

But here's the thing.  That's all window dressing.  Having a canon character named Gabriel, and another with a sci-fi gobbly-gook name like Gdolkin, just means writers are not constrained in picking names or references for people and objects.  And in that sense, Caanok Var's tetsubo is perfectly allowable.  The history of warfare is just inventing new ways to hit people with sticks, and a stick with metal on the end for extra mass probably predates written language.  I call it a tetsubo instead of a club because the visual reference is obviously that of the tetsubo/kanobo, a medieval Japanese weapon.  European maces tended to use flanges and spikes instead of rows of studs; while I'm certain there were some simple metal-plated or studded clubs used in European warfare, the cultural reference for Var's weapon is Japanese -- and anyone saying otherwise is being dishonest.  Look at the discourse for the weapon anywhere on social media -- here, Facebook, wherever -- and it's being called a tetsubo or kanobo by the majority of folks.  So, while Japanese -- or even East Asian as a whole -- references have never before been made for the Iron Hands, it's not that big of a deal because of their cultural mishmash.  That's also not my reason for disliking it.

 

The monolithic cultural theme of the Iron Hands is technology.  Every Chapter uses cybernetics to get wounded Astartes back into the fight quickly, but the Iron Hands seek out cybernetic or augmetic replacement.  They desire it, removing perfectly healthy and functioning body parts for replacing them with technologically advanced parts.  Every Chapter has a relationship with the Adeptus Mechanicus, which is the last word in tech in the Imperium; even if the Chapter needs no aid in manufacturing weapons, equipment, and vehicles, they all send tech-savvy members to the AdMech for Techmarine training.  But the Iron Hands are even closer, sending more Marines to Mars than other Chapters, and these members get more in-depth training than those of other Chapters.  Every Chapter (even those who have distaste for them, like the White Scars), use Dreadnoughts.  The Iron Hands don't just use them, they revere them as a technological marvel that blends man and machine into a single, indomitable weapon.  "The Salamanders are a technologically savvy Chapter too!" I hear you say, and you're half-right.  Both Chapters have a theme of forging weapons buried in the lore somewhere, but the difference is that Salamanders are craftsmen.  They make weapons that are master-crafted and beautiful, but it's smithing.  It's a Salamander making a weapon.  The Iron Hands don't generally care too much about craftsmanship.  They're too focused on efficiency.  The difference between between Salamander and Iron Hand is the difference between a workshop and factory.

 

The thematic close combat weapons for the Iron Hands are axes and hammers.  Yes, they're pretty standard.  Every Chapter uses both of those; the Salamanders have perhaps a stronger preference for hammers than the Iron Hands, but no one's making an argument for uniqueness.  I making an argument to theme.  Ferrus Manus used a hammer for most, if not all, of the Great Crusade, and GW wanted to give the Chapter that theme with the 3rd Edition-era upgrade kit including a thunder hammer for the squad sergeant.  The Iron Father character from Wrath of Iron also wielded a thunder hammer.  It is a weapon themed into the Chapter's lore, and it speaks back to the technology theme because of the "forge" discussion -- workshop or factory, hammers are used to forge weapons in both.  The other thematic weapon is the axe, specifically the power axe.  We have three Iron Father models (3rd Edition special character, HH Terminator character, and Feirros) and all carry power axes.  Our 40K melee weapon relic -- when relics were a thing -- was an axe.  Art for our current-day Chapter leadership, Kardan Stronos, always shows him carrying a power axe (the cover art for Eye of Medusa and Voice of Mars, and then his big art piece with all the servoarms).  Hell, the leaked HH3.0 rules give us an improved power axe for our Chapter's unique melee weapon.  And because the axe is the preferred weapon of the Adeptus Mechanicus, we come back, once more, to the Chapter's theme being technology.

 

When I first learned of and became a fan of the Chapter back in the early 2000's -- they're the first entry in Index Astartes III, the first non-codex 40K book I ever bought -- I always thought the power fist would be the thematic weapon for the Chapter.  They're called Iron Hands after all.  But no, the power axe because of the link to the AdMech and the thunder hammer because they're emulating their "I can forge weapons with my hands" gene-father who carried a hammer.

 

The tetsubo and hammer are, at their most basic, simple bludgeoning weapons.  Both can be fitted with power field generators.  The difference isn't in the technology used, the difference is in the theme: one's just a club, the other is a thematic symbol of Ferrus "I made high-tech weapons for my brother Primarchs" Manus.

 

That's why I think Var's tetsubo is a dumb choice and I will be converting it to an axe or hammer, period.

If everyone has a hammer or an axe it gets boring and becomes a parody of the theme.

blunt force weapons make sense for the chapter, so why not a character with a one off weapon?

 

On 7/25/2025 at 5:09 PM, Captain Idaho said:

Theme matters. As an Ultramarines player, I like the Greco-Roman heritage that was culturally important to all of them. Originally. Now that has been diminished by what represents the Ultramarines by GW media and product releases.

 

Ultramarines with katanas? No thank you. Sure, someone can show me a single historical example that might show a warrior using a non Greco-Roman weapon. Maybe. But the exception is irrelevant for overall representation of theme and narrative.

 

GW produce few special characters, so they should be exemplary to their theme and narrative or what's the point right?

 

If people want to represent a different weapon or genetic lineage or whatever in their White Scars, sure go for it. It's your head canon and enjoy! But the stock narrative remains and SHOULD exist.

 

If we remove the Greco-Roman from Ultramarines, for example, then what are they culturally?

lol nothing because UM are bland and genetic as they come.

 

but that’s not a good comparison 

[HeadlessCross]

On 7/25/2025 at 3:09 PM, Captain Idaho said:

 

 

If we remove the Greco-Roman from Ultramarines, for example, then what are they culturally?

They would be culturally not a boring ass Planet Of Hats writing. 

[Captain Idaho]

41 minutes ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

lol nothing because UM are bland and genetic as they come.

 

but that’s not a good comparison 

 

I quite like the convergence of Sparta and Roman culture in the Ultramarines but the modern depictions of them in 40K are indeed bland and generic. But then that demonstrates my point for me, thank you 

 

12 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

They would be culturally not a boring ass Planet Of Hats writing. 

 

That's 40K completely, in case you hadn't noticed! 

 

Same as Star Wars, Dune and most science fiction settings - planets are geographically limited to a single characteristic and monocultural.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, Captain Idaho said:

 

I quite like the convergence of Sparta and Roman culture in the Ultramarines but the modern depictions of them in 40K are indeed bland and generic. But then that demonstrates my point for me, thank you 

 

 

That's 40K completely, in case you hadn't noticed! 

 

Same as Star Wars, Dune and most science fiction settings - planets are geographically limited to a single characteristic and monocultural.

That’s just GW sucking and differentiating them.

 

has nothing to do with if IH should have a war club of some sort on a character vs a hammer or axe.

[Brother Tyler]

Let's stay on topic, folks. This topic is about the Iron Hands. There is a whole forum dedicated to the Ultramarines and discussion of their thematic elements should be taken up therein.

 

For my own part, I've never inferred a distinct historical/regional [Terran] culture as being the defining element of the Iron Hands. The names used in the Chapter derive from a variety of sources, but none of those sources appears to drive the thematic appearance of the Legion/Chapter. To me, the core of their theme has always been their reverence for the mechanical and logic over the flesh and emotion. I think the Clan Raukaan codex supplement articulated it fairly clearly:

 

[The Iron Hands] despise the weakness of flesh above all, [they] bear a scar upon their collective soul that drives them to seek the purity and perfection of the machine... Thus the Iron Hands as a Chapter are driven to embrace logic and mechanical precision lest they fall prety to the same error that claimed their gene-father.

 

...and later as...

 

Iron over flesh; logic over emotion; the merciless, relentless purge of those weaknesses that threatened ruin.

 

Despite their reverence for the mechanical over flesh and their alignment with the Adeptus Mechanicus, however, I don't see them as being notably more "high tech" than other Chapters. Yes, there are some areas in which they embrace technology in ways that [the majority of] their counterparts do not, such as the methods and means by which the Iron Council works. However, in the millennia since the Second Founding, there is little evidence that they have "more" or "better" technological advances compared to other Chapters. The Legion definitely stood as one of those who led in technological innovation and experimentation during the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy, but that preeminence appears to have stalled since the death of Ferrus Manus. Where they are more technologically inclined than other Chapters is in their willingness to embrace augmetics, typically choosing to replace injured body parts with augmetics even when natural (insofar as their transhuman physiologies are "natural") healing/tissue replacement would suffice. Moreover, they deliberately remove otherwise healthy tissue and replace it with augmetics, including the Forgechain, which is wholly unnecessary.

 

As far as their physical representation in artwork and miniatures, I see the defining element as being the presence of augmetics. Luckily for most of us, many augmetics can be considered as being present while being concealed by armour. There are many bits and models with visible augmetics, however, and both additive manufacturing and skilful sculpting/conversion present opportunities for the more enterprising among us. The typical markings of the Chapter/Legion, too, serve as thematic identifiers, but those markings bear little resemblance to motifs used by historical/regional Terran cultures. Generally speaking, they bear more in common with simplistic modern technologically-oriented logos and icons, which seems perfectly in keeping with the Chapter's theme.

 

In terms of weapons (the catalyst for this discussion), while I agree that the cog-toothed axes of the Adeptus Mechanicus and the hammer of the original kit, not to mention the power fists that harken to the Chapter's/Legion's (and its Primarch's) name, are logical as the typical weapons of the Chapter, there's no reason whatsoever that they should be limited to those weapons. Iron Hands have been depicted in both artwork and model form equipped with swords and normal axes (i.e., non-cogged), and no one has complained that these are inappropriate. If anything, I see the Iron Hands' reliance on logic as driving its members to use whatever weapons seem most appropriate to the circumstances. As with the other Chapters/Legions, they likely have all manner of weapons within their armories, not limiting themselves to a narrow set of weapons. While individuals may have personal preferences, they might reasonably choose different weapons based on their tactical needs. A club or maul is similar to a hammer in terms of its simple brutality.

 

One of the key factors driving the success of this hobby is that the rules allow hobbyists to express their own creativity and individuality in the choices they make with regard to their armies and the modeling opportunities afforded by unit and weapon/wargear selection. Different hobbyists have different views and there is room for significant diversity in army appearance. While each (sub)faction might have some general trends and concepts driving their thematic representation, hobbyists aren't strictly limited - or perhaps it may be more accurate to say that the themes present in each (sub)faction allow for a little more flexibility than some hobbyists think. This allows those hobbyists with narrower views to adhere to their conceptualization of what a (sub)faction should be while also allowing other hobbyists to blur the lines a little. After all, while (sub)factions may draw inspiration from specific historical/regional sources, they are certainly influenced in other ways by countless other sources. This is a science fantasy setting that is tens of thousands of years in the future and it is highly unlikely that any (sub)faction would be limited to any one historical/regional source. Consider how much intermingling there is of influences in modern times (or at any time in history) and then consider how things might develop over the next 28,000 years, especially given the drastic changes that impacted human civilization over that time in the fictional setting. There are those among us who have well-defined preferences regarding the theme of the Iron Hands, and there's nothing wrong with that. Conversely, there are others who have no problem with a little more variability, and that's okay, too.