Space Crusade (PBP Conversion/RPG/Boardgame)

[Mazer Rackham]

 

AIRLOCK 47 BREACHED...

 

Spoiler

 

 

A Discovery

 

Hail fraters of the Nook. I have posted this here to just advertise a few bits and pieces really, and to see how this could be taken forward as a PBP game. I understand that this more appropriate to 'Other Games', but it is technically something that we might deal with given the format. Obviously, if this is in the wrong place, I would be obliged if a Moderator could shuffle it to the appropriate section!

 

So, what prompted this? I was scouring websites for battlemaps for the RPG Nook (hence it's also here), and came across some fairly (shexy too!) faithful replicas of the old board tiles. I regret I do not know who made them, but the credit is certainly not mine. If you recognise them, please let me know, and I will edit this post with a complete citation. I'd also been waxing nostalgic and, since I've had the Spectrum version of this game stuck in my head since forever, I watched a few YT videos and thought I'd bring my mania to the attention of others.

 

Materials.

 

Player handbooks and Rulebooks can be found online, if you haven't got your original copies - and if not, why not, you scallwags!? This is PEAK 40K historical fantasy battle!

 

Board tiles:

Spoiler

 

Dice/Rolling:

 

Essentially it's a completely punishing, and totally unfair D6 system of GM Griefing. Which is another reason I think this belongs in the Nook, as the Alien Player is essentially a GM, from the days in Warhammer Quest and the legacy of Heroquest, we can also see this was the grand design...

 

The Dice don't exist electronically, but with a bit of engineering, this can be made so: Light Attack Dice (D6) Only the result of a 1-2 counts, and Heavy Attack Dice got from 1-3. Any other result, is a Zero. Alternatively, we are well versed in D3 and D4 mechanics here, and so provision could be made for that, if people thought it was preferable.

 

Players/Play:

 

In the Game, we have up to three squads of five Marines, with a Commander and 4 x Mooks. The Players recieve Equipment and Order Cards (which I have somewhere, but I bet they can be found online, otherwise we can digitise them here in a forum project, perhaps (Bro T is always at this for KT, so we should capture him and lock him in the Nook until he complies - which is totally not the behaviour of a Cult...).

 

Now, for simplicity's sake, we could play this much like an exceptionally light DW game (and the more I think about it, the more my brain starts seeing parellels with the Order Cards and Squad Modes...) where folks just take on an assigned role (Cmdr, PG, ML, AsC, Bolter Redshirt) or a brace of Players controlling a 'Set' of Marines, each. The latter is down to time/investment really, since this latter approach will involve a LOT of juggling and extra work by the GM/Alien Player, and it depends on how much time everyone has to invest.

 

Conclusion:

 

I think it's something that can be done, and could scale with interest. Obviously, some of the Space Crusade expansions allow for extra Marines (+2) and additional equipment, Fusion Guns (MM) and Conversion Beamers, but also bigger Dreadnoughts....and I think that a Player = Model would work a little better than Player = Marine Set Controller for Player numbers and GM logistics, it could work in either iteration.

 

Have at it below.

 

Spoiler

(Now I just have to work out PBP BFG....) Stay on topic! :D

 

 

Edited July 30 by Mazer Rackham
Title edited for clarity.

[Trokair]

Well, I would be willing to give this a go, I never played it back in the day, unlike Space Hulk (though I think that might have been second edition).

 

 

In regards to players controlling one marine vs being the sergeant and controlling a squad I think that might be a choice to make based on player number and how large a battle the GM is willing to preside over.

 

I could see it starting as one marine each, and then if they survive and succeed in a few missions they get promoted so the later parts of the game the players then have a squad each or some such.

[Mazer Rackham]

1 hour ago, Trokair said:

Well, I would be willing to give this a go, I never played it back in the day, unlike Space Hulk (though I think that might have been second edition).

 

Spack Hulk definitely is of the lineage. If Space Hulk was a Chapter Master, Space Crusade is the Primarch (probably one of the missing ones...!)

 

1 hour ago, Trokair said:

In regards to players controlling one marine vs being the sergeant and controlling a squad I think that might be a choice to make based on player number and how large a battle the GM is willing to preside over.

 

Easily scaled-up - the battles are generally a set-piece mission with a certain number of enemies and surprises, which the Players have to offset with placing, tactics and thier Orders/Equipment. The missions scale in difficulty - I think there's 10 OTTOMH. Extra missions add to this, and even allow the Marines to take a Tarantula Weapons Battery (yes, they're OLD, and not just Heresy!).

 

1 hour ago, Trokair said:

I could see it starting as one marine each, and then if they survive and succeed in a few missions they get promoted so the later parts of the game the players then have a squad each or some such.

 

This is actually a good idea. The Commander is usually a Player and starts as a Sergeant, and as they win missions, they go up a rank, ending in Captain, IIRC, so there's definitely scope for this.

 

 

Edited July 30 by Mazer Rackham
Tro had already suggested taking over a squad - derp

[Xin Ceithan]

Oh! Killer Androids from space! The terror of moving blips!  Robot dreads! 
Actually, I still might have one of those Tarantulas in a bitsbox somewhere…

 

I like the idea of character progression ( maybe including a grainy  8 bit pic capture „for the annals of the Imperium“ for the odd survivor )

 

Also - Will players be restricted to classic red, yellow and blue?

[Mazer Rackham]

I'm not sure. It depends on how 'classic' an experience Players want, although I've been thinking about it and I could see a way forward allowing people to be a 'Deathwatch' crew wherein you could be red, yellow or blue (or variations thereof) with an equipment card from each chapter set. That would have to bounce up the difficulty a bit though, since it's a teeny-tiny imbalance.

 

It wouldn't be hard to run a squad of 'pick chapter' and then we could just work it out from there.

 

As I say, it's just how complicated can the GM and Players put up with. Seeing we have someone who's never played it before, the first game should be as simple as possible.

 

Edited July 30 by Mazer Rackham

[Lysimachus]

I can't remember much about how the rules for Space Crusade worked... but I do remember loving it!

 

The impression I have, though, is that it is very much a squad level game, and squad level tactics? I think it would be a lot truer to the feel of the original if each player is the Sgt of a squad, rather than individuals.

 

In that case, if you were using DW as a base for it, you might have to simplify the rules as far as the individual Marines were concerned. But maybe the different Chapters might allow different choices with regard to special, heavy or CC weapons, or something like that?

 

 

[Urauloth]

The nostalgia of seeing those board sections is always incredible.

 

Like you say, the bespoke dice being 6-sided means they can be digitally substituted with a d6 chart. The rules are all pretty simple, so if you wanted to adapt it to PBP "as-is" the only stumbling block I can see is the cards - there used to be a German fan site that had scans of them iirc, but I don't think it's up any more. John Liu still hosts all the other stuff on his website.

[Mazer Rackham]

40 minutes ago, Urauloth said:

...the only stumbling block I can see is the cards - there used to be a German fan site that had scans of them iirc, but I don't think it's up any more. John Liu still hosts all the other stuff on his website.

 

Seen a French one with everything including Eldar Attack, a wonderful repository, unfortunately, the only foreign language I speak with any competence is "Idiot". It's a damn shame, because they've got articles from WD as well giving a Renegade Marine Campaign, TDA, there was so much stuff for this under the radar...

 

I'm working on sorting it, but push-to-shove, I've got most if not all of the hard-copy stuff. If necessary, I'll scan the bloody lot and whack it into a private, shared google folder as per usual.

 

1 hour ago, Lysimachus said:

The impression I have, though, is that it is very much a squad level game, and squad level tactics? I think it would be a lot truer to the feel of the original if each player is the Sgt of a squad, rather than individuals.

 

Not a problem to get that feel sorted. I do want to keep it as classic as I can.

 

1 hour ago, Lysimachus said:

In that case, if you were using DW as a base for it, you might have to simplify the rules as far as the individual Marines were concerned. But maybe the different Chapters might allow different choices with regard to special, heavy or CC weapons, or something like that.

 

No, you can't have 7 Marines with a PG because you're DA. 

 

I wasn't thinking of using the Deathwatch RPG rulebook - that's a whole different scale of task - just an allowance for someone wanting to be a Successor or something if we went Player = Model, that kind of thing. Just a little bit of Player choice. Otherwise a Player picks Red/Yellow/Blue and gets a Squad. 

[Lysimachus]

Ah, I think I misunderstood your comment about 'exceptionally light DW'.

 

So it's just straight up playing original SC as a PBP game? I guess the main thing would be having very clear maps showing exactly where all of the models/blips are, and players being specific about where they are moving. The special dice are easy, as Urauloth said, just need a standard dice and a chart.

 

7 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

No, you can't have 7 Marines with a PG because you're DA. 

 

 

 I was more thinking that you get a couple of special weapon troopers, standard is 1 Plas and 1 ML, but a DA team might take 2 Plas instead, or IF might take 2 ML, or BA or Wolves might take a second special CC weapon instead of a heavy... stuff like that? But that might needlessly unbalance the various squads.

 

 

Edited July 31 by Lysimachus

[Trokair]

20 minutes ago, Lysimachus said:

I guess the main thing would be having very clear maps showing exactly where all of the models/blips are, and players being specific about where they are moving. 

 

I was thinking on this as well, and given that the map is on a grid system it ptobably make sense if one axsis is labled A, B , c etc and the one 1, 2, 3 etc. then players could specify exactly where they are moving, shooting and so on.  For example a Marine on D12 activates and cane move 4 spaces, D13,D14,E15(diagonal),E16. 

[Mazer Rackham]

Those are top quality suggestions, gentlemen. I don't think it would be too hard to slap axes on the maps - the 'boards' also fit on a standard powerpoint tile, so should be easy enough for any low-brow technobarbarian like me to shuffle all the bits around.

 

Interesting idea on the expanded/duplicate weapons. The only imbalance I can see is that 2 x PG will be crazy, but having said that, also exceptionally dangerous for a Player's own Marines...it shouldn't be too hard to wangle something considering that in Mission: Dreadnaught you gain access to a Fusion Gun, which is a MM but works like a PG, but isn't.

 

Then again, in M:D, the Alien Player (GM) gets big Dreads with lots of speed and lascannons...! 

 

Edited July 31 by Mazer Rackham

[Xin Ceithan]

9 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Seen a French one with everything including Eldar Attack

That might be the first  box of plastic crack I bought all by myself after my brother and I got a box of Space Crusade for Christmas

 

9 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

…as well giving a Renegade Marine Campaign…

… I mean, yes, ahem, do go on …  

 

Also, thinking about it, I think @Lysimachus is right with this being primarily a squad based game.

There could still be some sort of progression , as survivors earn veteran / specialist status or progress to fill in as leader when the sergeant gets killed. In a way, the squad becomes the character with a sort of overall unit history 

I quite like this - it’s also a nice change in pace from the other games 

[Gillyfish]

It depends how faithful you want to be to the original game. It was definitely squad based and the equipment and order cards for the marine players added flavour to the different chapters.

 

When we played we typically had all three heavy weapons (in the original game), so assault cannon, missile launcher and plasma gun, with the fourth marine having a bolter. Each heavy weapon had a different rule; the missile launcher affected a nine square area with the sum of the two heavy weapon dice hitting the central square and the higher of the two the outer squares. The plasma gun was the sum of the two heavy dice in a straight line and the assault cannon allowed you to attribute the sum of the dice between models in an area (from memory).

 

You could give your sergeant a heavy bolter, power axe and bolt pistol or power glove and power sword, for different effects.

 

Alien cards might cause weapon malfunctions, unleash genestealers, or even benefit marine players. The alien player was definitely not a GM though (unless you are the kind of GM who actively tries to kill your players...). In addition, it was not unheard of for marine players to try and kill one another...