Horus Heresy: Legacies of the Age of Darkness

[Pearson73]

32 minutes ago, Dezron said:

 

It has Ordnance (RS) rule, which means that if the Legion Basilisk hasn't moved the RS stats get doubled.

 

Ahhh, that makes sense now. I did wonder if Ordnance had a scaling effect, rather than simple addition. Thanks for clearing it up.

[Valkyrion]

I don't know why I'm so fixated on this tartaros thing but here we go...

 

I'm now firmly of the belief that the omission of power fists in the Libers was intentional and a FAQ introduced to assuage the hue and cry that would follow.

I think a new Tartaros kit with only power weapons is on the way, but is either delayed or not tabled for several months, hence the day 1 urgency of the power fist FAQ.

A new Tartaros kit would lead to an updated FAQ removing the power fist options and 'relegating' current tartaros builds to legacies and the Tartaros Siege Terminator entry.

 

 

 

[MARK0SIAN]

17 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

Its not culled though, its all useable stuff isn't it?

It was culled from the main libers. A lot of it has been put back (not all of it) but I think a lot of that is only in response to the backlash. 

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

One thing I still dislike from this type of documents is put as separate units the same unit but with or without jump packs. Procurators, Red Hand Destroyers,Ofanim,...for example. It is a waste of space. 

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

4 minutes ago, Valkyrion said:

I don't know why I'm so fixated on this tartaros thing but here we go...

 

I'm now firmly of the belief that the omission of power fists in the Libers was intentional and a FAQ introduced to assuage the hue and cry that would follow.

I think a new Tartaros kit with only power weapons is on the way, but is either delayed or not tabled for several months, hence the day 1 urgency of the power fist FAQ.

A new Tartaros kit would lead to an updated FAQ removing the power fist options and 'relegating' current tartaros builds to legacies and the Tartaros Siege Terminator entry.

 

 

 

I hope it doesn't 

[sarabando]

vet breachers all with power fists sounds hilarious and just what i want to add to my IH. 

[Astartes Consul]

42 minutes ago, Jarl of Wulfen said:

I noticed speaker of the dead for SW doesn't have bitter duty so it can't join the deathsworn.

 

And the Ultramarine Nemesis Destroyers don't have Bitter Duty, so can be joined by anyone...

 

55 minutes ago, MasterBlaster said:

Its amazing how piss poor performance can light a fire. Less than an hour and already people in here on their knees thanking gw again. LMAO. Give that same grace to everyone in your daily life 

 

I'll have a little nibble on this bait. I don't think 'Wow, I am glad they saw sense and didn't completely wipe out everyone's previous armies in the end' is the same as being on one's knees thanking GW. There's very little point in trying to find something to stay mad about when, it seems, the Legacies document is addressing most of the concerns around the units/wargear presented to us in the Libers. Life's too short.

[Chyttering]

Between the FAQ and this document they've had several opportunities to correct an error in not giving Chaplains (and now Speakers of the Dead) Hatred, and the fact that they haven't taken those opportunities suggests that this wasn't actually an error. Now they're centurions with a nice power maul and an extra point of Cool, which is... something, but the loss of their inspirational rage aspect is a major departure from their traditional fluff.

 

Edit: can't spell.

Edited 8 hours ago by Chyttering

[Robbienw]

21 minutes ago, MARK0SIAN said:

It was culled from the main libers. A lot of it has been put back (not all of it) but I think a lot of that is only in response to the backlash. 

 

Right so not actually culled just not in the main books.

 

The Legacies PDF was on the plan ages ago and was always coming, it wasn't made it result to the leaks upset.  Given its size its likely most of it was going to be in there and only a few bits have been added as a result of the upset.

[MARK0SIAN]

12 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

 

Right so not actually culled just not in the main books.

 

The Legacies PDF was on the plan ages ago and was always coming, it wasn't made it result to the leaks upset.  Given its size its likely most of it was going to be in there and only a few bits have been added as a result of the upset.

I don’t think we will agree on this. Even though the announced the legacies document ages ago, I don’t think they originally intended to restore everything they have. I think the intent was to fully cull those units and particularly the options that the various units had. It was only the backlash that has seen them restored. Neither of us are likely to know the whole truth but their reasoning given for why things were in legacies instead of the libers just doesn’t make sense.

[Irate Khornate]

21 minutes ago, Robbienw said:

 

Right so not actually culled just not in the main books.

 

The Legacies PDF was on the plan ages ago and was always coming, it wasn't made it result to the leaks upset.  Given its size its likely most of it was going to be in there and only a few bits have been added as a result of the upset.

At this point, we don't know and we will never know. Do I think they went in and added a good bit to the legacies document? Absolutely. I will also admit it was likely a big book to begin with. 

 

As for Culling, by it not being in the main book at some point or another they are going to attempt to cut these options out. It is their modus operandi. While I cannot confirm it was attempted this time, I am also seeing a lot of Legion specific units are worse than their generic counterparts.

[Hfran Morkai]

1 hour ago, Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf said:

I hope it doesn't 

 

Here's hoping too.

 

Although they could always release a weapon pack (which may well be the plan down the line anyway).

[Bouargh]

A few surprising things, at least from my distance knowing I do not play HH since mid of its first Ed. But looking at the trends of the games and ranges beyond HH 28mm...

- Aurox and Carnaudon out?

- Arlatax whereas there is a Epic size model / So no update to be expected too soon?

- Infernus Abomination away? This one is quite a recent model, isn't it?

 

Most of the rest of the reclassification looks quite logical yet, considering the release pattern and geenral orientations toward no-box-no-rule. It is also rather sane IMHO not to build up too much special units in all directions. A couple of Signature units and special characters might be more than enough for each legion while keeping flavour without generating balance issues. Even if HH looks like a well balanced game (after all it is harder to unbalance things when 2 sides are (generally speaking seen the over presence of SMs) so close and identical rule wise...).

I am generally not a big fan of shrinkage, but here it is looking like a rather sane exercice. Theoritically at least. 

I understood anyway that these models listed will remain playable in GW events (which I suppose is a poor consolation)?

[Robbienw]

1 hour ago, Irate Khornate said:

At this point, we don't know and we will never know. Do I think they went in and added a good bit to the legacies document? Absolutely. I will also admit it was likely a big book to begin with. 

 

As for Culling, by it not being in the main book at some point or another they are going to attempt to cut these options out. It is their modus operandi. While I cannot confirm it was attempted this time, I am also seeing a lot of Legion specific units are worse than their generic counterparts.

 

Given the time scale and the size of the document though, it’s unlikely they added much relative to the size of it.  Probably what was added (or rather resurrected) is some of the options for existing units that don't come with the sets, like thunderhammer on Inner Circle Knights or variats of special units with no specific models like Companions in terminator suits.

 

It must have always been the plan for the oop resin models to be in there.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if we see some units return from the legacy PDF to the main book though, as more units are made in plastic.

Edited 8 hours ago by Robbienw

[Lord Marshal]

19 minutes ago, Bouargh said:

A few surprising things, at least from my distance knowing I do not play HH since mid of its first Ed. But looking at the trends of the games and ranges beyond HH 28mm...

- Aurox and Carnaudon out?

- Arlatax whereas there is a Epic size model / So no update to be expected too soon?

- Infernus Abomination away? This one is quite a recent model, isn't it?

 

Carnodon was Legacies in 2nd as well, which was very odd but then so were the Legion Basilisk and Medusa I suppose.

 

The Aurox is a surprise, but I'd not be shocked if it still turned up in plastic eventually since it's an obvious avenue to expand the SA range with. They have UnLegacy'ed stuff before like various resin characters and the Tarantula.

 

The Meatball Abomination I think is just a victim of not easily slotting into any of the Libers. 

 

Edited 9 hours ago by Lord Marshal

[1ncarnadine]

Well that confirms it. Typhon's chem hand flamer and the Ultramarine Nemesis chem bolters get Panic, but none of the normal Death Guard chem flamers cause Panic. :cuss:

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

1 hour ago, Irate Khornate said:

At this point, we don't know and we will never know. Do I think they went in and added a good bit to the legacies document? Absolutely. I will also admit it was likely a big book to begin with. 

 

As for Culling, by it not being in the main book at some point or another they are going to attempt to cut these options out. It is their modus operandi. While I cannot confirm it was attempted this time, I am also seeing a lot of Legion specific units are worse than their generic counterparts.

Honestly, I'm 100% convinced that both the archive was planned for a long time to be extensive, and convinced too that they've had to make many profound changes to the document due to the reactions to the leaks. So many changes and additions, that it's been released so late. And there are things they haven't released and will leave for other documents, too. Partly to avoid further delaying the release of the archive.

 

This file isn't going to make people forget and relax about what things would have been like if there hadn't been leaks and GW had been forced to make corrections. Or it shouldn't, because I'm sure GW will try to return to their original plans and goals using another route.

 

Is this a good document? I think so. Could it be better? Of course. Will GW do better? Undoubtedly not, because it's neither interested nor beneficial to its objectives.

 

And I hope it doesn't make things worse in the future.

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

2 hours ago, Astartes Consul said:

 

I'll have a little nibble on this bait. I don't think 'Wow, I am glad they saw sense and didn't completely wipe out everyone's previous armies in the end' is the same as being on one's knees thanking GW. There's very little point in trying to find something to stay mad about when, it seems, the Legacies document is addressing most of the concerns around the units/wargear presented to us in the Libers. Life's too short.

 Agree,totally. And if I may say so, it is too short to take into consideration certain opinions lacking in tact and good taste.

[SvenIronhand]

LOOKS LIKE MEAT'S BACK ON THE MENU BOYS.

[Doghouse]

Glad to see the Pathfinder and Indomitus Terminators are back in.

Edited 7 hours ago by Doghouse

[Astartes Consul]

Just clocked that the Veteran Heavy Support Squad can take a mix of weapons, as well as having access to Disintegrators. And Special Weapons as well? 

[Deakz28]

After seeing everything, including things that weren’t mentioned in the original article I’m saddened that Khan on bike isn’t in the legacies pdf :(

Edited 7 hours ago by Deakz28

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

4 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

Great they did this, its still a huge unnecessary bloat to have 2 massive rules sources for army construction, one free, one not. One printed, one not. Then for both to be fully supported and game legal is just messy conceptually.

I expect from a premium game company an excellent product as they charge a premium price. So EVERYTHING needs to be in the core book and the respective Libers. As this hasn´t happened GW has plummeted from their lofty perch straight into low-tier in regards to creating a tabletop wargame. 

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

Mounted Praetor:

 

I love that the Praetor becomes more intelligent when he rides a jetbike instead of a motorcycle. The Legacies debacle is the gift which keeps giving us endless conversation material.

[Agramar_The_Luna_Wolf]

39 minutes ago, Astartes Consul said:

Just clocked that the Veteran Heavy Support Squad can take a mix of weapons, as well as having access to Disintegrators. And Special Weapons as well? 

Yup. Quite a mix