Horus Heresy: Legacies of the Age of Darkness

[BitsHammer]

1 hour ago, skylerboodie said:

But they're not advertising it as recycled material or intended for new players, so how exactly are people expected to know pre purchase as you don't get to read it before buying. Shouldn't have to rely on warnings from others in the community who got ripped off that it's old material rewritten.

 

It's advertised as new not rehashed, so to say "you aren't forced to buy it" as though that means GW haven't put out a poor product for established players and if anyone is disappointed having forked out £16.50 for it then it's their own problem is some serious simping for GW.

Considering GW has been reprinting and recycling lore basically forever I am failing to see how we have set the expectation for it to be all new lore for an event that got rather deep lore coverage in the black books.

 

If you were new to the game then the lore is still new to you, but if you aren't new to Warhammer this should be something you're used to because this is how literally every codex recycled lore from 2nd through 7th edition at minimum (though 8th ed on it dropped off considerably).

 

If this book wasn't what you wanted, fine. I get that. GW makes a bunch of stuff these days that isn't really working for me either. But let's not pretend that this is some kind of new thing never seen before where they are trying to rip us off.

 

No one is holding you at gun point to buy everything. If you feel swindled over this one then make sure you wait and see what's in the future ones before you buy and see if it fits what you want out of these books. 

 

GW didn't hide what the book was. It's a think book that covers some events of Istvaan V and adds some datasheets and an alternative mission. How much that's worth is up to you on if it's good value but people need to start taking responsibility for buying stuff blind without actually researching what is actually in it. 

 

This isn't a FOMO book. There is no excuse that you had to buy it before you could find out what is actually in the book. You are responsible for the purchases you make as much as GW is for putting it on sale for you to buy.

 

I am all for holding GW's feet to the fire but it takes two to tango and pretending we don't impulse buy stuff before we actually slow down to figure out if we really even want it is something I am long past tired of.

 

I bought the journal and while I think it's underwhelming for what I know they could do for someone like me who doesn't have all the Black Books in print it's nice to start collecting this lore in print for myself.

 

But I bought the book fully understanding it would be stuff we already saw before because Istvaan V was covered in great detail in the Black Books in the past. It's not like Cthonia in 2.0 where we got to see a mid-Heresy event with new details.

 

So before you click buy and then complain about the book slow down and find out exactly what is in the book before you throw money at GW. 

 

This is the same mantra that has been repeated for the video games for well over two decades now: do not pre-order.

 

I would amend that as "do not blind pre-order" hut the point remains. It's our money and we're responsible for how it is spent. If we jump in blind we don't really get to complain that we landed in the mud because we didn't look first.

 

/Rant

 

On a more positive topic: I don't hate the journal system. The game launched with nearly every faction having their rules, and the journals get to fill the role of the old Chapter Approved books by adding units to various armies without being tied to some kind of fixed release window and lets them add more missions to the game as the edition goes on keeping it fresh without the churn 40k has.

 

Maybe it could use more stuff (hobby guides would be a nice addition when they get to doing the legions for example), but as a premise I prefer it over 40k forcing people to wait 3-6 years to get updates outside of index resets or dataslates.

 

 

[Mogger351]

Is there any confirmation the splat books aren't limited run.

 

GW have a tendency to make a stack of these things then never print more historically.

[BitsHammer]

10 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Is there any confirmation the splat books aren't limited run.

 

GW have a tendency to make a stack of these things then never print more historically.

Nothing they have marketed has even implied a limited print run on this stuff.

 

And if you did miss that there are other sources for the content if they don't want your money. Let's not pretend the internet doesn't put this stuff online in like a week anyways.

[Mogger351]

2 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

Nothing they have marketed has even implied a limited print run on this stuff.

 

And if you did miss that there are other sources for the content if they don't want your money. Let's not pretend the internet doesn't put this stuff online in like a week anyways.

Ok, so what you're saying is don't worry about buying them as they're not worth it when people upload them to pirate, right?

 

Yes I am being a touch facetious but there's plenty of examples, such as the crusade books for 40k, tyrannical war and pariah nexus simply have been removed now. Neither ever mentioned being limited run.

 

So if you absolutely want these books physically, yes they are fomo until proven otherwise.

 

Personally I consider it foolish to assume if they drop even one a quarter that they'll keep them all in print.

[BitsHammer]

10 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Ok, so what you're saying is don't worry about buying them as they're not worth it when people upload them to pirate, right?

 

Yes I am being a touch facetious but there's plenty of examples, such as the crusade books for 40k, tyrannical war and pariah nexus simply have been removed now. Neither ever mentioned being limited run.

 

So if you absolutely want these books physically, yes they are fomo until proven otherwise.

 

Personally I consider it foolish to assume if they drop even one a quarter that they'll keep them all in print.

Read my point however you choose. Fact remains that we hold some responsibility for giving GW money for products we don't both to research as much as they do for releasing them in an unsatisfactory condition.

 

And I am not pretending that they will stay in print forever, but certainly long enough for us to find out if we actually want them before hitting "add to cart" the second it goes on pre-order.

 

Let's not pretend a week or two wait to order something is an automatic loss of our chance to get something. 30k sells out far slower than 40k and the scalper market isn't breathing down our necks over the rulebooks. We can afford to actually research our purchases instead of commiting to FOMO mentality on every single book release.

[Robbienw]

5 hours ago, skylerboodie said:

But they're not advertising it as recycled material or intended for new players, so how exactly are people expected to know pre purchase as you don't get to read it before buying. Shouldn't have to rely on warnings from others in the community who got ripped off that it's old material rewritten.

 

It's advertised as new not rehashed, so to say "you aren't forced to buy it" as though that means GW haven't put out a poor product for established players and if anyone is disappointed having forked out £16.50 for it then it's their own problem is some serious simping for GW.

But you aren’t forced to buy it.

 

Reviews on the internet will tell you the nature of the book before buying it, you aren’t buying it blind.

 

Its not hugely expensive.

 

Fuss over nothing.

 

 

[Mandragola]

This is a very tricky one. There have absolutely been products from GW that have sold out faster than you could even read a review. And reviews are embargoed till stuff goes on preorder. They don’t always say when things will be one and done so it’s tough to say. I’ve had big problems in the past with Adeptus Titanicus cards and kill team can be very sketchy too. 

[twopounder]

20 hours ago, BitsHammer said:

Considering GW has been reprinting and recycling lore basically forever I am failing to see how we have set the expectation for it to be all new lore for an event that got rather deep lore coverage in the black books.

 

If you were new to the game then the lore is still new to you, but if you aren't new to Warhammer this should be something you're used to because this is how literally every codex recycled lore from 2nd through 7th edition at minimum (though 8th ed on it dropped off considerably).

 

If this book wasn't what you wanted, fine. I get that. GW makes a bunch of stuff these days that isn't really working for me either. But let's not pretend that this is some kind of new thing never seen before where they are trying to rip us off.

 

No one is holding you at gun point to buy everything. If you feel swindled over this one then make sure you wait and see what's in the future ones before you buy and see if it fits what you want out of these books. 

 

GW didn't hide what the book was. It's a think book that covers some events of Istvaan V and adds some datasheets and an alternative mission. How much that's worth is up to you on if it's good value but people need to start taking responsibility for buying stuff blind without actually researching what is actually in it. 

 

This isn't a FOMO book. There is no excuse that you had to buy it before you could find out what is actually in the book. You are responsible for the purchases you make as much as GW is for putting it on sale for you to buy.

 

I am all for holding GW's feet to the fire but it takes two to tango and pretending we don't impulse buy stuff before we actually slow down to figure out if we really even want it is something I am long past tired of.

 

I bought the journal and while I think it's underwhelming for what I know they could do for someone like me who doesn't have all the Black Books in print it's nice to start collecting this lore in print for myself.

 

But I bought the book fully understanding it would be stuff we already saw before because Istvaan V was covered in great detail in the Black Books in the past. It's not like Cthonia in 2.0 where we got to see a mid-Heresy event with new details.

 

So before you click buy and then complain about the book slow down and find out exactly what is in the book before you throw money at GW. 

 

This is the same mantra that has been repeated for the video games for well over two decades now: do not pre-order.

 

I would amend that as "do not blind pre-order" hut the point remains. It's our money and we're responsible for how it is spent. If we jump in blind we don't really get to complain that we landed in the mud because we didn't look first.

 

/Rant

 

On a more positive topic: I don't hate the journal system. The game launched with nearly every faction having their rules, and the journals get to fill the role of the old Chapter Approved books by adding units to various armies without being tied to some kind of fixed release window and lets them add more missions to the game as the edition goes on keeping it fresh without the churn 40k has.

 

Maybe it could use more stuff (hobby guides would be a nice addition when they get to doing the legions for example), but as a premise I prefer it over 40k forcing people to wait 3-6 years to get updates outside of index resets or dataslates.

 

 

 

Which is what makes a 207 page legends PDF so frustrating. The storyline is finished and set. Its not like they introduced new aliens, surprise new war machines or a censored legion. They already know exactly what units exist, what people potentially have (either because they sold it as a box or its been a unit for 2 editions) and they act surprised when people are upset that the unit got dropped for extremely flimsy reasons. And these aren't fringe units either, many of them are core to how multiple legions army build.

 

Look at how empty the pages are under the centurion and Praetorian entries. They could have easily put bikes and jet bikes on the pages. Same with terminator armor for the consuls. 

[BitsHammer]

2 hours ago, Mandragola said:

This is a very tricky one. There have absolutely been products from GW that have sold out faster than you could even read a review. And reviews are embargoed till stuff goes on preorder. They don’t always say when things will be one and done so it’s tough to say. I’ve had big problems in the past with Adeptus Titanicus cards and kill team can be very sketchy too. 

Cards are a different product than books though. GW seems to only do one major run on cards but rulebooks rarely go on limited print runs out of the gate save for special editions and they usually indicate they are a limited run through marketing or "while supplies last" tags on the webstore.

 

28 minutes ago, twopounder said:

 

Which is what makes a 207 page legends PDF so frustrating. The storyline is finished and set. Its not like they introduced new aliens, surprise new war machines or a censored legion. They already know exactly what units exist, what people potentially have (either because they sold it as a box or its been a unit for 2 editions) and they act surprised when people are upset that the unit got dropped for extremely flimsy reasons. And these aren't fringe units either, many of them are core to how multiple legions army build.

 

Look at how empty the pages are under the centurion and Praetorian entries. They could have easily put bikes and jet bikes on the pages. Same with terminator armor for the consuls. 

The storyline is finished and set but as a setting for a wargame there is a lot of room to add battles and events only hinted at before or named in passing, something GW has always been good at doing.

 

The separate statlines seem to be an artefact of how they are handling statlines. Namely in that your wargear doesn't change your stats, likely to make it easier for new players to keep track of instead of needing to look up what a Jetbike does or how Tartaros Armor changes the unit's rules and stats.

 

Both approaches have pros and cons.

 

I suspect the guidance the rules team had was "only stuff with a model kit goes in the libers.and anything else will have to be worked on in your own time" which is the kind of crap GW has pulled before.

[Mandragola]

5 hours ago, BitsHammer said:

Cards are a different product than books though. GW seems to only do one major run on cards but rulebooks rarely go on limited print runs out of the gate save for special editions and they usually indicate they are a limited run through marketing or "while supplies last" tags on the webstore.

Sometimes. A good example is the matched play guide for Titanicus. That's a really useful book but now totally unavailable.

 

Even in 40k we've seen times where the essential general's handbook thing (whatever it's called) was totally unavailable. I remember thinking I'd have a go but being unable to get a Pariah nexus book, so I passed.

[BitsHammer]

12 minutes ago, Mandragola said:

Sometimes. A good example is the matched play guide for Titanicus. That's a really useful book but now totally unavailable.

 

Even in 40k we've seen times where the essential general's handbook thing (whatever it's called) was totally unavailable. I remember thinking I'd have a go but being unable to get a Pariah nexus book, so I passed.

I did say "usually" as GW does muck things up sometimes.

 

I never claimed GW does no wrong or that they always get it right 

 

I just want us to stop pretending we have no control over our purchases and acting like we are being forced to buy products we don't want, need, or find sub-standard.

 

If we want better we need to be more responsible with our purchases and not just buy things because they are selling them.

[Mandragola]

22 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

I did say "usually" as GW does muck things up sometimes.

 

I never claimed GW does no wrong or that they always get it right 

 

I just want us to stop pretending we have no control over our purchases and acting like we are being forced to buy products we don't want, need, or find sub-standard.

 

If we want better we need to be more responsible with our purchases and not just buy things because they are selling them.

I do broadly agree with you but unfortunately I don't think it's always as simple a decision as it ought to be. To be fair to GW I think they're doing a better job of saying that things are limited than they have in the past. Those Saturdays at 10am when you really want something are still really stressful though, and that's when you sometimes make bad choices.

[BitsHammer]

21 minutes ago, Mandragola said:

I do broadly agree with you but unfortunately I don't think it's always as simple a decision as it ought to be. To be fair to GW I think they're doing a better job of saying that things are limited than they have in the past. Those Saturdays at 10am when you really want something are still really stressful though, and that's when you sometimes make bad choices.

Fair, but if we make bad choices I would hope we at least admit that we made the choice.

 

As for the journals, the Saturn one is the one I really want to see. Partially for the expanded Saturnine stuff, but mostly because I'm hoping we get more details about the armor. Like a cross section diagram of what a person wearing it looks like. I miss those technical schematic images GW used to give us. It made the setting feel more alive even if when you thought about it things didn't always make sense.

[Gorgoff]

I couldn't care less abiut the Saturnine fluff but I absolutely agree on the schematics. 

I have seen so many memes about how the pilot looks like in that armour that it would be nice to see an official picture explaining how a human fits in there without chopping their arms and legs off. 

 

Regarding pre ordering stuff... someone already said that.

Never pre order.

Just don't. 

Wait till the reviews come in. Let others take the hit first.

Don't be a hero.

 

Edited 12 hours ago by Gorgoff

[Mogger351]

The point stands though, there's no confirmation or possibly confidence these journals being long term products, whether they're good value or not doesn't help someone in 18 months time if they're no longer sold and want a copy.

 

Beyond that I don't think promoting pirating is in line with the board rules and it certainly doesn't do anything to solve GWs decisions if so.

[BitsHammer]

5 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

The point stands though, there's no confirmation or possibly confidence these journals being long term products, whether they're good value or not doesn't help someone in 18 months time if they're no longer sold and want a copy.

 

Beyond that I don't think promoting pirating is in line with the board rules and it certainly doesn't do anything to solve GWs decisions if so.

No one is claiming they will be around forever, but they sure as heck last past the pre-order phase. If you can't wait until the pre-order is over to know what's in the book before you buy you don't have a hobby, you have an impulsive spending habit.

Edited 5 hours ago by BitsHammer

[Irate Khornate]

GW putting out a poor product for already established customers in 30k 3rd edition. 

 

You don't say? Color me surprised. /Heavy S

 

Also, I agree, if they're going to act like a video game company, never preorder. 

 

If they sell out of the journals and don't make anymore, there are other ways to secure copies for free.

[BitsHammer]

Just now, Irate Khornate said:

GW putting out a poor product for already established customers in 30k 3rd edition. 

 

You don't say? Color me surprised. /Heavy S

 

Also, I agree, if they're going to act like a video game company, never preorder. 

 

If they sell out of the journals and don't make anymore, there are other ways to secure copies for free.

Not every product has to be tailored towards an existing player base. Not being tailored to people who have stuff doesn't make things automatically bad.

 

That said I would have definitely liked if the journal was at least 5th ed 40k codex levels of thickness considering it costs more than one of those did. The size of the Dropsite part 1 doesn't scream "value for money" even if I do appreciate reprinting lore that is out of print for anyone who couldn't get their hands on a physical black book collection.

 

And I don't think they are trying to be a video game company, but as customers we do ourselves no favors adding every new thing to our carts before the website has had time to even refresh.

 

The entire world is getting increasingly more expensive to live in and I just don't find myself exactly sitting on extra money to throw blindly at the next new shiny product.

 

I mean a MkII Tactical Squad us $82 USD. MkIII is $79USD. We are long past the days where I can go to my FLGS and buy ten Marines for around ~$30USD. I have to plan my purchases and make sure I get the most out of them these days.

 

So I did my research on the stuff I was going to buy out of the gate. I did reserve Saturnine from my FLGS but that was well after the initial reviews were out and over a week after the leaks.

 

Now I admit I do occasionally get the "oooo shiny" syndrome too. I sometimes pick stuff up solely to slap paint on it and move on once I scratch the itch to "solve" a specific paint scheme or test out an idea. 

 

No one is perfect and GW FOMO had bitten all of us at some point I am sure. I am just saying that as a community rather than hopping onto that treadmill they have 40k on we should at least try to temper the speed at which we hit the checkout. 

 

If GW didn't print enough books that they sell out before the pre-order ends that is their loss, not ours. The community will ensure those rules get disseminated regardless, it's on GW to make sure they have enough product for us to buy not on us to buy it before it runs out.

[Irate Khornate]

8 minutes ago, BitsHammer said:

snip

I think we're saying roughly the same thing, I'm just not caffeinated at the moment.

[BitsHammer]

3 hours ago, Irate Khornate said:

I think we're saying roughly the same thing, I'm just not caffeinated at the moment.

Fair enough. 

[twopounder]

On 8/9/2025 at 1:59 PM, BitsHammer said:

Cards are a different product than books though. GW seems to only do one major run on cards but rulebooks rarely go on limited print runs out of the gate save for special editions and they usually indicate they are a limited run through marketing or "while supplies last" tags on the webstore.

 

The storyline is finished and set but as a setting for a wargame there is a lot of room to add battles and events only hinted at before or named in passing, something GW has always been good at doing.

 

The separate statlines seem to be an artefact of how they are handling statlines. Namely in that your wargear doesn't change your stats, likely to make it easier for new players to keep track of instead of needing to look up what a Jetbike does or how Tartaros Armor changes the unit's rules and stats.

 

Both approaches have pros and cons.

 

I suspect the guidance the rules team had was "only stuff with a model kit goes in the libers.and anything else will have to be worked on in your own time" which is the kind of crap GW has pulled before.

 

 

Battles and events are not all new units. This isn't 40k. It has a very strictly defined beginning and end with a finished novel series. The unit list is complete, outside of things you could easily kitbash. This is Horus Heresy, not The Great Crusade. Its why Luthor and Astelan aren't even in it, even though they were alive and major characters throughout the entire setting.

There is no battle where GW can reasonably say "oh, and there is this totally new faction in the imperium with 10 billion soldiers that nobody ever knew about and 10 tank hulls that are nothing like what already exists in the game". Not unless they decided to add the two missing legions. No, the unit list is complete and they know it. The entire hope was that the out-of-print resin and newest units would all get a plastic release. Not just unceremoniously removed from the game.