Rinky-dink Retcons?

[SvenIronhand]

Kill the Kin-Pack Declaration as a concept, as to allow the Ultima Founding SW successors to have their own, varied codex-divergent organization and not just mimic the parent chapter or have to acknowledge it in their lore-building. 

 

[Tawnis]

I'm not sure if this counts as a small retcon or not, but add a 0 to the end of every number in 40k. 

 

Space Marine Chapters, 10,000 now. 

The big battle at Armageddon that was supposed to be one of the largest ever and had 4 million, now it has 40 million. 

ect... ect...
 

Nothing functionally changes though, all those numbers were there the whole time. 

Edited 23 hours ago by Tawnis

[Osteoclast]

On 8/12/2025 at 6:29 PM, CL_Mission said:

Terminators should wear the Crux Terminatus on their right shoulder pad so their chapter insignia can go on the left like everyone else in the chapter. Alternatively everyone else should move their chapter insignia to match the Terminators.

Been doing that with all my Centurions for that exact reason. 
 

More focus on random chapters doing stuff rather than the Ultramarines Second Company somehow covering the entire galaxy simultaneously. 
 

Magos Biologis generally look human, their “forge worlds” look mildly paradisal but are aggressively min-maxxed agriworlds exploiting every biome they can. May be generally classified by the Imperium as agriworlds cuz of that. 

[LSM]

23 hours ago, DemonGSides said:

IH more of a gunmetal grey, RG is more of a Vanta Black situation. Plenty of room for shades of black.

 

I also think IH often look great in artwork, where they're festooned with bionics, in a way that's difficult for an average collector to reproduce in miniature.

 

The simple black/dark metal pairs well with all the pistons and wiring.

 

So I'll repeat my calls for GW/FW to put out "Space Marine Bionic Upgrades".

 

Edited 22 hours ago by LSM

[DemonGSides]

19 minutes ago, LSM said:

 

I also think IH often look great in artwork, where they're festooned with bionics, in a way that's difficult for an average collector to reproduce in miniature.

 

The simple black/dark metal pairs well with all the pistons and wiring.

 

So I'll repeat my calls for GW/FW to put out "Space Marine Bionic Upgrades".

 

 

I'd love a set of upgrades that were kit agnostic that would have those bionics. I don't play IH but I do like plasma so it would fit with my BA lol

[Deus_Ex_Machina]

3 hours ago, Wormwoods said:

Not so much a retcon as a refocusing, I want to spend more time looking at the Imperium fighting itself. Give me jilted Marines chapters raiding worlds that refused to pay them an extra tithe of warm bodies and fresh bolt rounds. Give me more revolts and revolutions that aren't just genestealers or chaos, as always. Hell, commit to the bit with armies showing up late (or early) due to warp shenanigans, and going to war with allied forces because they pop through expecting an enemy, and those cussers are in different uniforms!

 

Also put the Custodes back on Terra and limit Grey Knights and Deathwatch to single squads attached to larger, conventional armies. There's nothing special about 'the threat so great it means a full army of them!!!' when that's just the only way they appear in the lore and tabletop these days.

It cheapens the setting when Grey Knights are ordered to combat every peasant uprising in the galaxy. They are specialized demon hunters and should be treated as such. In 2nd 40K you had a 5-man terminator squad of them and that was it. They were tough as nails and not grunts to be used as speed bumps for a non-demonic foe.

[ZeroWolf]

20 minutes ago, Deus_Ex_Machina said:

It cheapens the setting when Grey Knights are ordered to combat every peasant uprising in the galaxy. They are specialized demon hunters and should be treated as such. In 2nd 40K you had a 5-man terminator squad of them and that was it. They were tough as nails and not grunts to be used as speed bumps for a non-demonic foe.

Then 3rd edition changed that just under a decade later though and its been that way for 20 years+. Basically they’ve been full army strength for two thirds of the games life at this point. The horse had well and truly bolted from the stable. Be more then a little retcon to fix that.

 

(Also, I cant see them putting the custodes back on Terra while Mr Carvill is interested!)

[Kaede45]

How about allowing the Sisters of Silence to participate in more than just the Custodes army? Apparently the Inquisition can requisition them, but they aren’t a part of the “Imperial Agents” allied units? Also they have one model set (plus a single character) & an upgrade spruce (that is incredibly hard to get)! Seriously, does anyone else think they deserve some more love?

[Jareddm]

21 hours ago, MoriyaSchism said:

-The Exorcists White Dwarf article doesn't exist. Silas Alberec is the Chapter Master in the present day. The incredibly silly "Plutonians" don't exist, the Exorcist remain a deeply hypocritical and dangerous project that still has the full backing of the Ordo Malleus. The rogue sect of Inquisitors narrative from the White Dwarf article gives the Imperium an out and makes the whole thing feel inconsequential. Their gene-seed origin is still unknown. 

The only part of that WD article I liked was the Imperial Fists origin and that it is maintained as a 1st Company and above secret. Because on a practical level, the geneseed shouldn't matter for the chapter practice. But on an emotional level, you just know other Fist successors would absolutely not stand for a chapter of their bloodline doing the things the Exorcists do, thus chapter secret.

3 hours ago, ThePenitentOne said:

 

We've been fighting for friggin DECADES to get GW to show the Inquisition the respect they deserve. Removing their chambers militant DOES NOT HELP. The outcry when GW tried to do exactly what you're suggesting with Deathwatch in 10th was so immediate, universal and extreme that GW walked back their decision with a digital download, and hopefully they now recognize the magnitude of their mistake (and yours), and they will never engage with such foolishness again (nor should you).

I find it telling that the actual term 'Chamber Militant' has not been seen in print in over a decade. Sure, the codexes say they, "work closely" and are "foremost allies" with the Inquisition but you NEVER see Chamber Militant anymore. The feeling I get is as far as GW is concerned, the DW and GK are fully independent entities that just happen to have overlapping goals with the Inquisition.

3 hours ago, SvenIronhand said:

Kill the Kin-Pack Declaration as a concept, as to allow the Ultima Founding SW successors to have their own, varied codex-divergent organization and not just mimic the parent chapter or have to acknowledge it in their lore-building. 

I thought Ultima SW successors could still have their own organization, it just meant the Space Wolves wouldn't acknowledge them in return as true Sons of Fenris. Like they weren't required to accept the Kin-Pack Declaration.

 

 

As for my own retcon suggestion, a small one. The Dark Angels legion never agreed to the Treaty of Olympus Mons and thus never had true techmarines. Instead they only had Terran-trained Tech-wrights. In current lore, they have both techmarines and tech-wrights. I find this would be a nice extension to similar lore like the Space Wolves "Not Librarians" and the Salamanders "Not Destroyers." Plus after the Heresy, it would require the DA to come crawling back to the AdMech for assistance in getting the remains of Caliban converted into the Rock.

Edited 19 hours ago by Jareddm

[Brother Tyler]

I think the debate about the size of Grey Knights forces is amusing. When they were first introduced back in the 1st edition of the game, they came as a full army, not a single squad.  You can see more on that history here.

 

My retcon would be having the Fire Claws return to their original proud name and color scheme, no longer going by the "Relictors" moniker or colors. Either that or have the Chapter wiped out for refusing to follow the rules (if they continue to go by their penitent name, they are all but declaring that they don't care, after all).

[MoriyaSchism]

37 minutes ago, Jareddm said:

The only part of that WD article I liked was the Imperial Fists origin and that it is maintained as a 1st Company and above secret. Because on a practical level, the geneseed shouldn't matter for the chapter practice. But on an emotional level, you just know other Fist successors would absolutely not stand for a chapter of their bloodline doing the things the Exorcists do, thus chapter secret.

Why would they select gene-seed with non-functioning organs to create a chapter with such an important task? I personally don't like the Imperial Fists and I don't enjoy a chapter I've been a fan for a very long time being retroactively associated with something I dislike. No offense to any Imperial Fist fans. My reason for liking the chapter isn't tied to spiting the descendants of Dorn, I'm no Iron Warrior. Besides isn't Helbrecht angry all the time anyway? To add one more thing, I think something so mundane as the origin of their gene-seed being a 1st Company secret in a chapter that used to be based around esoteric cults and orders within its chapter structure sounds insanely lame. "Behold, the forbidden 23andMe"

 

Edit: Speculation > Revelation 
There's room to play around with your hobby when things are ambiguous. Who could it be? Why are the origin records sealed by Inquisitorial order? Could it be the Grey Knights served as a template? Or maybe it was the Red Hunters? It could be anything. You could lean into the Ordo Malleus ties too without the "rogue sect" nonsense by giving them gear reminiscent of older iterations of the Grey Knights as hand-me-downs from the Inquisition and other crazy things. You could run 5 Terminator Librarians from the Broken Tower Orison using Grey Knight Paladin squad rules in your army and so on. 

Edited 19 hours ago by MoriyaSchism

[ThePenitentOne]

7 hours ago, Kaede45 said:

How about allowing the Sisters of Silence to participate in more than just the Custodes army? Apparently the Inquisition can requisition them, but they aren’t a part of the “Imperial Agents” allied units? Also they have one model set (plus a single character) & an upgrade spruce (that is incredibly hard to get)! Seriously, does anyone else think they deserve some more love?

 

YES YES YES! And give us a 40k Datacard for the Kharon Pattern Aquisitor while they're at it.

 

Adding SoS and Scions as to Codex: Imperial Agents as additional Requisitioned units was low hanging fruit that GW missed entirely. The  Ashes of Faith book DID allow both units as requisitioned troops, but the Dex dropped the ball even though the heavy lifting had already been done.

[sitnam]

I finally thought of one: get rid of SoB Mortifiers. I just don't like them. Lorewise, Repentia are supposed to be near suicide troops. The presence of Mortifiers kind of takes away from that. The weapon options could of just been options for updates Penitent Engines.

[ThePenitentOne]

39 minutes ago, sitnam said:

I finally thought of one: get rid of SoB Mortifiers. I just don't like them. Lorewise, Repentia are supposed to be near suicide troops. The presence of Mortifiers kind of takes away from that. The weapon options could of just been options for updates Penitent Engines.

 

I don't know man... Repentia are troops who swear an oath with the hopes of redeeming themselves despite the likelihood that they die trying; mortifiers are those whose sins are so great that the Order has decided to punish them with excrutiation that persists through every waking moment of their existence on the battlefield and off; the very name "Mortifier" implies you're trapped on a machine with the intention you remain there until death in all but the rarest of cases.

 

And as for giving PE's heavy bolter options, remember that PE's are used to punish CIVILIANS. Yes, they can probably use buzzsaws and flamers somewhat effectively, but heavy bolters are only going to be remotely effective if the person trapped in the mortifier has effective enough firearms training that has become muscle memory, allowing them to use the Heavy Bolters despite the constant pain inflicted by the machine.

 

I see Mortifiers as an expansion of the concept of the Penitent Legion rather than as a contraction of the concept of Repentia, and I say that as a guy who fielded a Witch Hunter army in 3rd that consisted of a 1500 point Penitent Legion and a 1500 point Holy Choir rather being designed as a single 3k point army. It was harder to do then than it is now because of Mortifiers.

 

And again, as I'm constantly reminding people in "suggest an improvement" type threads, think carefully about suggesting the removal of anything, because you are already free not to use it if you don't like it, whereas those who do like it would have no access to it if GW ever did follow your suggestions. Why should I be prevented from using Mortifiers just because you don't like them, even though you're free to solve your not liking them problem by simply not using them.

 

Which isn't to say that there aren't things that could be removed from the game.... I just don't think there are as many of them as other people seem to think there are. As I said earlier in another post, I'm not a huge fan of the Dreadknight as a model and I personally wouldn't shed a tear if it was scrapped, especially if it was replaced with something better... But I'd never suggest removing it from the game, because my buddy Wil LOVED his Dreadknight, and taking it from him would push the poor guy to rage quit. Instead of suggesting that it be removed, I'll just exorcise my freedom to not buy one and let Wil continue to enjoy the game.

[ArielRSA]

I would change the name of Primaris armour marks from Mark X to Mark IX

[ThePenitentOne]

12 hours ago, Jareddm said:

 

I find it telling that the actual term 'Chamber Militant' has not been seen in print in over a decade. Sure, the codexes say they, "work closely" and are "foremost allies" with the Inquisition but you NEVER see Chamber Militant anymore. The feeling I get is as far as GW is concerned, the DW and GK are fully independent entities that just happen to have overlapping goals with the Inquisition.

 

 

I am going to look for recent uses of the term Chamber Militant, because I am sure I remember seeing it used somewhere since 8th, though I concede it certainly isn't used as commonly as it was in some of the previous editions. However, in your haste to dismiss the Chamber Militant relationship, you may have over looked the fact that the only units in the Imperial Agents dex that actually have Ordo keywords are the named Inquisitors... And the Chamber units.

 

Yep. Sisters and Immolators having the Ordo Hereticus Keyword says they are the Chamber Militant even more clearly than using the words "Chamber Militant" in some passing piece of fluff that has nowhere near as much impact on the game as the Keyword does. I've said it before: lore without rules that back it up doesn't actually mean anything, because 40k is a game, not a novel. But those Keywords are rules; they impact the game more than the phrase Chamber Militant ever did, and they quite clearly indicate a special relationship between Ordo and Chamber that doesn't exist for any other classification of Agent, regardless of the words that are or are not used to describe that relationship in the fluff that is written to support the game.

 

Put more colloquially (if somewhat more crudely), seeing an Ordo Xenos keyword on the Watchmaster and Artemis datacards more clearly indicates that the Deathwatch is the Ordo Xenos' b-tch than a line of fluff stating "The Deathwatch is the chamber militant of the Ordo Xenos" ever did. Like, you could show me 100 stories or novels where the Deathwatch turn down a request from Xenos Inquisitor, but that damn Ordo Xenos keyword on the datacard says that in the game, where it actually counts, the Deathwatch doesn't have any capacity to ignore the summons of the Ordo when it comes. 

 

Be that as it may, so far you are correct, and your point does still stand: I skimmed the Agents dex as closely as I could and couldn't find a single instance of the phrase "Chamber Militant". I'll check the other materials tomorrow and get back to you if I find it anywhere. For some reason, I'm thinking I might have seen it in the 9th ed Sisters dex; 9th is the only edition for which I have the Codices of all three Chambers, but I've got sisters from 8th, 9th and 10th.  

Edited 7 hours ago by ThePenitentOne

[ZeroWolf]

3 hours ago, ArielRSA said:

I would change the name of Primaris armour marks from Mark X to Mark IX

I weep for the lost Mk IX

[LSM]

14 hours ago, Brother Tyler said:

I think the debate about the size of Grey Knights forces is amusing. When they were first introduced back in the 1st edition of the game, they came as a full army, not a single squad.  You can see more on that history here.

 

Conversely, in RoC: StD The Black Legion is implied to be very small - small enough to be fully operating out of a single ship:

 

"[After destroying Horus' body] ...The Chapter's remaining space barge vanished into the dust nebulae about the Eye of Terror... Their hulking space barge has been seen in many parts of the Imperium..."

 

//

 

Though the RoC: StD Grey Knights were a little limited - you had to roll randomly to see how many actual Grey Knights you were allowed to take in an army, filling the remaining points with Arbiters, Imperial Guard, and Space Marines.

 

(These non-Grey-Knights were then not counted for victory conditions, as after the battle they were all assumed to have been executed or mind scrubbed.)

[sitnam]

7 hours ago, ThePenitentOne said:

And again, as I'm constantly reminding people in "suggest an improvement" type threads, think carefully about suggesting the removal of anything, because you are already free not to use it if you don't like it, whereas those who do like it would have no access to it if GW ever did follow your suggestions. Why should I be prevented from using Mortifiers just because you don't like them, even though you're free to solve your not liking them problem by simply not using them.

 

 I don't have an issue with the models,  If they introduced PE's in 8th with heavy bolters and flails as a weapon option, we would of been none the wiser and it wouldn't take away from the range. It just never set right with me they are supposed to be failed sisters 

 

As far as combat effectiveness of the pilots, that's something else I don't like about Mortifiers. Mortifiers have better WS and BS then PE's, which does suggest their warrior training does come in useful. When I imagine piloting these walkers, I would think the extreme stimuli and pain of the pilot would remove most rational thought. It's not like Sisters have dedicated training to become murder bots.

 

Not that I want to hate on the Sisters range, I really do love it (though they are no longer my favorite faction), but I also didn't love the introduction of Zephyrim. Not so much the lore, but the equipment. Sword and pistol is pretty generic for jump troops. I'd love if Zephyrim came with halberds and Sacresancts got swords as an alternate to maces.

[ThaneOfTas]

7 hours ago, ArielRSA said:

I would change the name of Primaris armour marks from Mark X to Mark IX

I would treat Mk IX like MkV and have it be the catch all term for any ad-hoc mix of mkX and first born armour pieces. As such, the new space Wolves infantry, Stern guard squad and Captain Centos are all in Mk IX

[Mandragola]

I definitely don't want anything removed. Even things I don't like are probably someone else's favourite thing.

 

All the black armour is a pain though. Couldn't Iron Hands have been Martian red or something? I'd potentially like to expand my Raven Guard into a shattered legion force but it would be boring if 2/3 legions present wore black. I'm not doing another black army ever if I can help it.

 

The shoulder trim thing is stupid but only matters if you're doing a whole chapter. Just do a company with a trim colour you like or else ignore it. Your toys.

 

Sisters of Silence are the biggest one I come back to. You have this faction of the supposed Talons of the Emperor, but they're represented by almost nothing in game. It's definitely "problematic" that the only women in 30k have no souls and aren't allowed to speak for no reason*. I'm especially annoyed that they brought out a book for heresy 2.0 with a filled out army list (jet bikes, snipers, crocodiles and all), supported it with 0 models and then deleted the whole lot in 3.0. So yeah I'm perfectly happy with female Custodes existing and it's just a shame they didn't do that with their original release, necessitating this sharp retcon.

 

*Ok apparently it's something about not telling the Emperor's secrets, except that a vow of silence might not hold up under duress and doesn't prevent them communicating secrets by typing, sign language, charades etc. It's clearly because someone once thought "sisters of silence" sounded cool.