[RUMOUR] Blood Angels poster faction for 11th

[Wispy]

Wouldn't take much to turn BA around. Even Sanguinary  Guard could be saved by a pair of Sanguinary Guard characters - imagine an Ancient or Champion character you can add to squads, full wings. So not everyone has wings but the important guys do. 

[Comandante Alexos]

Maybe I’m one of the few people that didn’t like the Old winged jumpack; I’m pretty fine with the new kit and I’m really happy of new characters. I really can’t ask more, maybe  

new Vanguard or the beloved old flying command squad.

[DemonGSides]

Even if you don't care for the wings, which I totally get, getting three copy and paste bodies as a replacement for what was once a kit that made 5 very bespoke guys was a huge downgrade, not to mention the mind boggling helmets. With a good head replacement I think the modern SG kit goes from what were they thinking to being fine. I don't love the genericization of their weapons but that's also easily converted. 

Edited 22 hours ago by DemonGSides

[Blindhamster]

All it would have taken to make the kit go down broadly better would have been variety basically.

 

theyre veterans, most veteran kits have variety.

 

had there been three body designs, three leg designs and three helmet designs plus maybe some variation in weapon designs (I personally love the new swords, but I can understand a desire for at least one single edged one) the kit would have gone down much better, even without wings

 

i think the poses are good as far as jump infantry goes. I like the bare heads, the new jump packs are pretty cool actually and look much more usable (unlike astorath and sanguinors which are even more awkward than their older models ones - how do they walk around??)

Edited 21 hours ago by Blindhamster

[Rain]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

Even if you don't care for the wings, which I totally get, getting three copy and paste bodies as a replacement for what was once a kit that made 5 very bespoke guys was a huge downgrade, not to mention the mind boggling helmets. With a good head replacement I think the modern SG kit goes from what were they thinking to being fine. I don't love the genericization of their weapons but that's also easily converted. 

This is a general issue with nu-GW. Modern kits are very highly detailed, but the dynamic poses, bodies and legs generally not being separable, and very unique looking doodads molded into the armor make for issues when fielding multiple “boxes” of models.
 

This is made worse by the “3 elite dudes per box” paradigm, so even a single squad of 6 will feature 2 sets of uncanny clones in the same exact poses, with identical doodads and ornamentation.

[jaxom]

34 minutes ago, Rain said:

This is made worse by the “3 elite dudes per box” paradigm, so even a single squad of 6 will feature 2 sets of uncanny clones in the same exact poses, with identical doodads and ornamentation.

^This, and I'm agreeing as someone who really likes the modern kits. There needs to be enough variety to cover at least two units of the same type or a full squad, not just one box.

[Blindhamster]

2 hours ago, Rain said:

This is a general issue with nu-GW. Modern kits are very highly detailed, but the dynamic poses, bodies and legs generally not being separable, and very unique looking doodads molded into the armor make for issues when fielding multiple “boxes” of models.
 

This is made worse by the “3 elite dudes per box” paradigm, so even a single squad of 6 will feature 2 sets of uncanny clones in the same exact poses, with identical doodads and ornamentation.

The poses don’t cause the issue with sanguinary guard, most armies will have 6 tops anyway so it’s not too bad. What is a problem is that the actual details on each model are identical across the poses.

 

had each pose had a different chest detail and leg details it would have been better. They also could have done like sword brethren and sternguard and had multiple shin plates per model.

 

they just did none of that. Instead it’s the same CAD model, posed in three different ways and that’s it. That’s why the kit is a comparative let down. 

[Evil Eye]

Agreed there. If the fixed body poses were a bit less unique and exaggerated (such that a repeated pose was less obvious) and there was just a hair more poseability, it'd be considerably less of an issue. Also the base bodies being less heavily ornamented, with a lot of the doodads being optional parts- both "dedicated" parts with specific spots to attach (tabards, chest details etc) and "loose" parts that can be glued anywhere (grenades, pouches, equipment, trinkets, doodads etc) would really help, both in terms of making it easier to make unique models and also giving you extra bits to spice up other models with. Unfortunately modern GW has apparently forgotten what modularity is and is allergic to useful spares being in their boxes.

[Blindhamster]

20 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

Agreed there. If the fixed body poses were a bit less unique and exaggerated (such that a repeated pose was less obvious) and there was just a hair more poseability, it'd be considerably less of an issue. Also the base bodies being less heavily ornamented, with a lot of the doodads being optional parts- both "dedicated" parts with specific spots to attach (tabards, chest details etc) and "loose" parts that can be glued anywhere (grenades, pouches, equipment, trinkets, doodads etc) would really help, both in terms of making it easier to make unique models and also giving you extra bits to spice up other models with. Unfortunately modern GW has apparently forgotten what modularity is and is allergic to useful spares being in their boxes.

Its crazy though, you can really tell that different teams work on different sets these days. The space wolf kits have a tonne of optional bits and part variations as well as some exceptional poses. I like the sanguinary guard for the most part but the grey hunters and blood claws are better made kits in just about every way. It's not modern GW thats a problem clearly, it's quality control (or probably lack thereof) coupled with clearly inexperienced designers on some projects or at least rushed ones.

[Rain]

I did mention the unique doodads and ornamentation along with the poses. It’s especially annoying when the ornamentation is things like trophies, tabards, and markings which should vary as they are clearly meant to represent personal adornments. Having them match exactly, in the exact same place, on large models making the same dynamic pose, is quite jarring.

 

Although model quality does vary, comparing 10 man troop boxes like Blood Claws and Grey Hunters to 3 man elite units isn’t really fair. Most troops, while still facing these issues, face them to a lower degree as they tend to come with more interchangeable pieces.

[Blindhamster]

37 minutes ago, Rain said:

I did mention the unique doodads and ornamentation along with the poses. It’s especially annoying when the ornamentation is things like trophies, tabards, and markings which should vary as they are clearly meant to represent personal adornments. Having them match exactly, in the exact same place, on large models making the same dynamic pose, is quite jarring.

 

Although model quality does vary, comparing 10 man troop boxes like Blood Claws and Grey Hunters to 3 man elite units isn’t really fair. Most troops, while still facing these issues, face them to a lower degree as they tend to come with more interchangeable pieces.

 

The reason i bring those units up, is because they have multiple shin plates for a number of models, a couple have alternaitve chest plates, they have varied adornments for pouches and fetishes, alternative arm poses, alternative HANDS for some of the arms, some varied bits of backpacks. There really is quite a lot of variety in them. 

 

The sanguinary guard could have had separate shin plates and belt adornments, they could also have included a few alternative chest plates.

[ThaneOfTas]

5 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

had there been three body designs, three leg designs and three helmet designs plus maybe some variation in weapon designs (I personally love the new swords, but I can understand a desire for at least one single edged one) the kit would have gone down much better, even without wings

If the kit had been like this I could probably have stomached having to source acceptable jump packs. I still wouldn't have liked the drop to 3 from 5 models, or getting rid of the axes, or the pennant instead of banner, but I'm willing to put some work and money into kit bashing if I feel like GW is meeting me half way.

[Wispy]

maybe GW can do an expansion sprue for SG. another easy win. The basis of the kit is workable. Space Wolves Headtakers are actually 4 sprues in stead of 3 (on account of the doggos) so adding another frame to it wouldn't be unheard of. If your expectation "we throw out the entire kit and start the kit over from scratch" then you're going to be waiting a decade.

Edited 14 hours ago by Wispy

[ThaneOfTas]

44 minutes ago, Wispy said:

maybe GW can do an expansion sprue for SG. another easy win. The basis of the kit is workable.

I just don't think that is the case. I don't see how an upgrade sprue could meaningfully change enough of my problems with the kit. They aren't going to put 4 different torsos, 6 more shin plates, a variety of alternate weapons, wrist mounted inferno pistols and a bunch of heads on one sprue. I don't even know if the base kit would allow for those parts to be swapped out.

 

An upgrade sprue would just make the kit more expensive for no meaningful improvement.

 

49 minutes ago, Wispy said:

If your expectation "we throw out the entire kit and start the kit over from scratch" then you're going to be waiting a decade.

I'm aware and prepared for that. Not in the least happy about it but I don't expect any different.

[Blindhamster]

40 minutes ago, ThaneOfTas said:

I just don't think that is the case. I don't see how an upgrade sprue could meaningfully change enough of my problems with the kit. They aren't going to put 4 different torsos, 6 more shin plates, a variety of alternate weapons, wrist mounted inferno pistols and a bunch of heads on one sprue. I don't even know if the base kit would allow for those parts to be swapped out.

 

An upgrade sprue would just make the kit more expensive for no meaningful improvement.

 

You're correct. It would not allow for it, the shins are part of the legs. You could do a sprue with some axes and give them a third profile, or some alternative poses for the arms to mix things up a bit, but yeah, when you consider the new honour guard for ultramarines, the sanguinary guard options are shocking. 

The kit SHOULD have been: 
- 3 basic sanguinary guard builds with a few weapon options (spears and swords are fine IMO, i think they fit the BA better overall, but some axes as a third option would have been cool), each with separate distinct shin & chest pieces and a couple of variations to mix up duplicates.
- a champion & an ancient type alternative build. 

 

as it stands, you probably could provide a "proper" ancient build, a champion build and the option for a fist on a new distinct sprue, you could even include alternative helmets and/or alternative chest pieces probably.. which actually would go a long way IMO 
 

[Nephaston]

3 hours ago, Wispy said:

If your expectation "we throw out the entire kit and start the kit over from scratch" then you're going to be waiting a decade.

Or hope the mould randomly breaks.

[Kill! Main! Burn!]

4 hours ago, Nephaston said:

Or hope the mould randomly breaks.

There are a few of the recent model updates that I hope that happens to or gw finds a reason to do an earlier than normal refresh.  I hope they find a reason to make some primaries jump pack kit with a single large central thruster.

[ThaneOfTas]

51 minutes ago, Kill! Main! Burn! said:

I hope they find a reason to make some primaries jump pack kit with a single large central thruster.

And get rid of those stupid flaps and calf nozzles!

[Magos Takatus]

Yeah, it's a shame about the lack of customization for the Sanguinary Guard. I don't miss the wings in the slightest, though. Sticking an armoured car door on each side of them would 100% slow them down and get them killed eventually. Sure, give them wing motifs, but the old model's wings were almost as big as the space marine was, and looked like they were made from solid metal, no suspensors to offset their weight, nothing to reduce the drag they would cause. That still doesn't excuse the lack of wargear, decorative and posing options in the kit, though.

[Evil Eye]

The old Sanguinary Guard wings were definitely overkill, though i feel like they could have been slightly shrunk without completely ruining the visual motif. Also the jump packs themselves were great, and the rest of the kit was nice. Not my favourite modular Marine kit (that'd be the Death Company kit) but still cool.

[Not An Ork]

2 hours ago, Magos Takatus said:

Yeah, it's a shame about the lack of customization for the Sanguinary Guard. I don't miss the wings in the slightest, though. Sticking an armoured car door on each side of them would 100% slow them down and get them killed eventually. Sure, give them wing motifs, but the old model's wings were almost as big as the space marine was, and looked like they were made from solid metal, no suspensors to offset their weight, nothing to reduce the drag they would cause. That still doesn't excuse the lack of wargear, decorative and posing options in the kit, though.

Plus in melee with a horde I always felt that the wings would interfere with team work and offer additional purchase surface for hordes of critters to bundle them and climb all over them. And gives them a giant blind spot if they get surrounded (though, of course, the solution there is to use the 'jump' part of their jump pack, but only if they realise in time). Though I do like the mental image of elite SG constantly bumping each other with their wings during a close-packed melee. Their peer-to-peer comm network being mostly 'sorry', 'my bad' and 'oops'.