[RUMOUR] Blood Angels poster faction for 11th

[Wispy]

Wouldn't take much to turn BA around. Even Sanguinary  Guard could be saved by a pair of Sanguinary Guard characters - imagine an Ancient or Champion character you can add to squads, full wings. So not everyone has wings but the important guys do. 

[Comandante Alexos]

Maybe I’m one of the few people that didn’t like the Old winged jumpack; I’m pretty fine with the new kit and I’m really happy of new characters. I really can’t ask more, maybe  

new Vanguard or the beloved old flying command squad.

[DemonGSides]

Even if you don't care for the wings, which I totally get, getting three copy and paste bodies as a replacement for what was once a kit that made 5 very bespoke guys was a huge downgrade, not to mention the mind boggling helmets. With a good head replacement I think the modern SG kit goes from what were they thinking to being fine. I don't love the genericization of their weapons but that's also easily converted. 

Edited October 12 by DemonGSides

[Blindhamster]

All it would have taken to make the kit go down broadly better would have been variety basically.

 

theyre veterans, most veteran kits have variety.

 

had there been three body designs, three leg designs and three helmet designs plus maybe some variation in weapon designs (I personally love the new swords, but I can understand a desire for at least one single edged one) the kit would have gone down much better, even without wings

 

i think the poses are good as far as jump infantry goes. I like the bare heads, the new jump packs are pretty cool actually and look much more usable (unlike astorath and sanguinors which are even more awkward than their older models ones - how do they walk around??)

Edited October 12 by Blindhamster

[Rain]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

Even if you don't care for the wings, which I totally get, getting three copy and paste bodies as a replacement for what was once a kit that made 5 very bespoke guys was a huge downgrade, not to mention the mind boggling helmets. With a good head replacement I think the modern SG kit goes from what were they thinking to being fine. I don't love the genericization of their weapons but that's also easily converted. 

This is a general issue with nu-GW. Modern kits are very highly detailed, but the dynamic poses, bodies and legs generally not being separable, and very unique looking doodads molded into the armor make for issues when fielding multiple “boxes” of models.
 

This is made worse by the “3 elite dudes per box” paradigm, so even a single squad of 6 will feature 2 sets of uncanny clones in the same exact poses, with identical doodads and ornamentation.

[jaxom]

34 minutes ago, Rain said:

This is made worse by the “3 elite dudes per box” paradigm, so even a single squad of 6 will feature 2 sets of uncanny clones in the same exact poses, with identical doodads and ornamentation.

^This, and I'm agreeing as someone who really likes the modern kits. There needs to be enough variety to cover at least two units of the same type or a full squad, not just one box.

[Blindhamster]

2 hours ago, Rain said:

This is a general issue with nu-GW. Modern kits are very highly detailed, but the dynamic poses, bodies and legs generally not being separable, and very unique looking doodads molded into the armor make for issues when fielding multiple “boxes” of models.
 

This is made worse by the “3 elite dudes per box” paradigm, so even a single squad of 6 will feature 2 sets of uncanny clones in the same exact poses, with identical doodads and ornamentation.

The poses don’t cause the issue with sanguinary guard, most armies will have 6 tops anyway so it’s not too bad. What is a problem is that the actual details on each model are identical across the poses.

 

had each pose had a different chest detail and leg details it would have been better. They also could have done like sword brethren and sternguard and had multiple shin plates per model.

 

they just did none of that. Instead it’s the same CAD model, posed in three different ways and that’s it. That’s why the kit is a comparative let down. 

[Evil Eye]

Agreed there. If the fixed body poses were a bit less unique and exaggerated (such that a repeated pose was less obvious) and there was just a hair more poseability, it'd be considerably less of an issue. Also the base bodies being less heavily ornamented, with a lot of the doodads being optional parts- both "dedicated" parts with specific spots to attach (tabards, chest details etc) and "loose" parts that can be glued anywhere (grenades, pouches, equipment, trinkets, doodads etc) would really help, both in terms of making it easier to make unique models and also giving you extra bits to spice up other models with. Unfortunately modern GW has apparently forgotten what modularity is and is allergic to useful spares being in their boxes.

[Blindhamster]

20 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

Agreed there. If the fixed body poses were a bit less unique and exaggerated (such that a repeated pose was less obvious) and there was just a hair more poseability, it'd be considerably less of an issue. Also the base bodies being less heavily ornamented, with a lot of the doodads being optional parts- both "dedicated" parts with specific spots to attach (tabards, chest details etc) and "loose" parts that can be glued anywhere (grenades, pouches, equipment, trinkets, doodads etc) would really help, both in terms of making it easier to make unique models and also giving you extra bits to spice up other models with. Unfortunately modern GW has apparently forgotten what modularity is and is allergic to useful spares being in their boxes.

Its crazy though, you can really tell that different teams work on different sets these days. The space wolf kits have a tonne of optional bits and part variations as well as some exceptional poses. I like the sanguinary guard for the most part but the grey hunters and blood claws are better made kits in just about every way. It's not modern GW thats a problem clearly, it's quality control (or probably lack thereof) coupled with clearly inexperienced designers on some projects or at least rushed ones.

[Rain]

I did mention the unique doodads and ornamentation along with the poses. It’s especially annoying when the ornamentation is things like trophies, tabards, and markings which should vary as they are clearly meant to represent personal adornments. Having them match exactly, in the exact same place, on large models making the same dynamic pose, is quite jarring.

 

Although model quality does vary, comparing 10 man troop boxes like Blood Claws and Grey Hunters to 3 man elite units isn’t really fair. Most troops, while still facing these issues, face them to a lower degree as they tend to come with more interchangeable pieces.

[Blindhamster]

37 minutes ago, Rain said:

I did mention the unique doodads and ornamentation along with the poses. It’s especially annoying when the ornamentation is things like trophies, tabards, and markings which should vary as they are clearly meant to represent personal adornments. Having them match exactly, in the exact same place, on large models making the same dynamic pose, is quite jarring.

 

Although model quality does vary, comparing 10 man troop boxes like Blood Claws and Grey Hunters to 3 man elite units isn’t really fair. Most troops, while still facing these issues, face them to a lower degree as they tend to come with more interchangeable pieces.

 

The reason i bring those units up, is because they have multiple shin plates for a number of models, a couple have alternaitve chest plates, they have varied adornments for pouches and fetishes, alternative arm poses, alternative HANDS for some of the arms, some varied bits of backpacks. There really is quite a lot of variety in them. 

 

The sanguinary guard could have had separate shin plates and belt adornments, they could also have included a few alternative chest plates.

[ThaneOfTas]

5 hours ago, Blindhamster said:

had there been three body designs, three leg designs and three helmet designs plus maybe some variation in weapon designs (I personally love the new swords, but I can understand a desire for at least one single edged one) the kit would have gone down much better, even without wings

If the kit had been like this I could probably have stomached having to source acceptable jump packs. I still wouldn't have liked the drop to 3 from 5 models, or getting rid of the axes, or the pennant instead of banner, but I'm willing to put some work and money into kit bashing if I feel like GW is meeting me half way.

[Wispy]

maybe GW can do an expansion sprue for SG. another easy win. The basis of the kit is workable. Space Wolves Headtakers are actually 4 sprues in stead of 3 (on account of the doggos) so adding another frame to it wouldn't be unheard of. If your expectation "we throw out the entire kit and start the kit over from scratch" then you're going to be waiting a decade.

Edited October 12 by Wispy

[ThaneOfTas]

44 minutes ago, Wispy said:

maybe GW can do an expansion sprue for SG. another easy win. The basis of the kit is workable.

I just don't think that is the case. I don't see how an upgrade sprue could meaningfully change enough of my problems with the kit. They aren't going to put 4 different torsos, 6 more shin plates, a variety of alternate weapons, wrist mounted inferno pistols and a bunch of heads on one sprue. I don't even know if the base kit would allow for those parts to be swapped out.

 

An upgrade sprue would just make the kit more expensive for no meaningful improvement.

 

49 minutes ago, Wispy said:

If your expectation "we throw out the entire kit and start the kit over from scratch" then you're going to be waiting a decade.

I'm aware and prepared for that. Not in the least happy about it but I don't expect any different.

[Blindhamster]

40 minutes ago, ThaneOfTas said:

I just don't think that is the case. I don't see how an upgrade sprue could meaningfully change enough of my problems with the kit. They aren't going to put 4 different torsos, 6 more shin plates, a variety of alternate weapons, wrist mounted inferno pistols and a bunch of heads on one sprue. I don't even know if the base kit would allow for those parts to be swapped out.

 

An upgrade sprue would just make the kit more expensive for no meaningful improvement.

 

You're correct. It would not allow for it, the shins are part of the legs. You could do a sprue with some axes and give them a third profile, or some alternative poses for the arms to mix things up a bit, but yeah, when you consider the new honour guard for ultramarines, the sanguinary guard options are shocking. 

The kit SHOULD have been: 
- 3 basic sanguinary guard builds with a few weapon options (spears and swords are fine IMO, i think they fit the BA better overall, but some axes as a third option would have been cool), each with separate distinct shin & chest pieces and a couple of variations to mix up duplicates.
- a champion & an ancient type alternative build. 

 

as it stands, you probably could provide a "proper" ancient build, a champion build and the option for a fist on a new distinct sprue, you could even include alternative helmets and/or alternative chest pieces probably.. which actually would go a long way IMO 
 

[Nephaston]

3 hours ago, Wispy said:

If your expectation "we throw out the entire kit and start the kit over from scratch" then you're going to be waiting a decade.

Or hope the mould randomly breaks.

[Kill! Main! Burn!]

4 hours ago, Nephaston said:

Or hope the mould randomly breaks.

There are a few of the recent model updates that I hope that happens to or gw finds a reason to do an earlier than normal refresh.  I hope they find a reason to make some primaries jump pack kit with a single large central thruster.

[ThaneOfTas]

51 minutes ago, Kill! Main! Burn! said:

I hope they find a reason to make some primaries jump pack kit with a single large central thruster.

And get rid of those stupid flaps and calf nozzles!

[Magos Takatus]

Yeah, it's a shame about the lack of customization for the Sanguinary Guard. I don't miss the wings in the slightest, though. Sticking an armoured car door on each side of them would 100% slow them down and get them killed eventually. Sure, give them wing motifs, but the old model's wings were almost as big as the space marine was, and looked like they were made from solid metal, no suspensors to offset their weight, nothing to reduce the drag they would cause. That still doesn't excuse the lack of wargear, decorative and posing options in the kit, though.

[Evil Eye]

The old Sanguinary Guard wings were definitely overkill, though i feel like they could have been slightly shrunk without completely ruining the visual motif. Also the jump packs themselves were great, and the rest of the kit was nice. Not my favourite modular Marine kit (that'd be the Death Company kit) but still cool.

[Not An Ork]

2 hours ago, Magos Takatus said:

Yeah, it's a shame about the lack of customization for the Sanguinary Guard. I don't miss the wings in the slightest, though. Sticking an armoured car door on each side of them would 100% slow them down and get them killed eventually. Sure, give them wing motifs, but the old model's wings were almost as big as the space marine was, and looked like they were made from solid metal, no suspensors to offset their weight, nothing to reduce the drag they would cause. That still doesn't excuse the lack of wargear, decorative and posing options in the kit, though.

Plus in melee with a horde I always felt that the wings would interfere with team work and offer additional purchase surface for hordes of critters to bundle them and climb all over them. And gives them a giant blind spot if they get surrounded (though, of course, the solution there is to use the 'jump' part of their jump pack, but only if they realise in time). Though I do like the mental image of elite SG constantly bumping each other with their wings during a close-packed melee. Their peer-to-peer comm network being mostly 'sorry', 'my bad' and 'oops'. 

[CastellanDeMolay]

I feel like posting my predictions here: 
For the space Marine half, I think GW will update the remaining firstborn kits: 
Tactical Squad: Two frames of 5 marines, each making 0-1 Sergeants, 2-3 marines with some kind of Bolter, 1 with a Pyreblaster and 1 with a Missile Launcher. The new Tactical squad Datasheet will change their options to being up to 1 Pyreblaster and 1 Missile Launcher per 5 models, so your old squads are technically grandfathered-in, but will have a sub-optimal loadout. 
Devastator Squad: Will probably be on the large frame alongside some of the characters, similar to the Sternguard from Leviathan, with a Sergeant, two Bolter Marines and two heavy weapons. The Datasheet will be changed to 2 Heavy weapons per 5 models. 
Vanguard Veterans: 1.5 frames, similar to the Terminators from Leviathan. 3 models, with various Wargear, and the Datasheet will update their weapon profile to a Sweep/Strike option so the weapons with which they're modeled don't matter. 
Landspeeder: This will be spread across 3 mini-sprues, similar to the Ballistus Dreadnought from leviathan. Weapons will be something like a Muti-Melta and Heavy Flamer. 

For the obligatory Captain, I think they'll go with Tacticus armour, so he can join the other squads. I don't think it makes sense that they would make 2 full-price Captains with Jump Packs and then make a cheap one for a launch box. Weapons will almost certainly be a Power Sword, and I think it's a toss-up between a fancy pistol or rifle, maybe Neo-Volkite? I think they'll give him something unique to distinguish him from other Captain models too, like Melta Bombs, Digital Weapons, a Holy Relic or some other throwback to older editions. 

Back in the day Standards were everywhere, so I think there will be some kind of Ancient, maybe in Gravis armour as we don't have a Gravis Ancient yet, but I could see them keeping everyone in Tacticus for the vibes. 
Techmarines are fertile ground for a Biologis or Judiciar style spinoff, so I think they'll do something like that, probably giving him a special kind of Signum to buff his bodyguard's shooting. 
If anyone gets a Jump Pack, I have a feeling it would be a Lieutenant, partly because they laid off of them for a while and are assuredly chomping at the bit to release a new one, and getting one with a JP in the starter could be a way to repair the Lt's public image. (If we're wishlisting, I'd rather a Company Champion with a JP)

On the Ork side, a lot of people seem to be hoping/expecting GW to throw in a new Boyz sprue, but I don't think they will. Usually the reason given is that the new Boyz sprue is bad, and they kept producing and selling the older Boyz kit alongside it; however I don't think it has been long enough to develop a new Boyz sprue and if it goes in the launch box it won't have enough options to make people happy. 
I think the mainstay of the Ork side will be Grots, probably a couple of frames of 10 with a Runtherd who gets a couple of head options or something like that. The Grot kit is old and doesn't offer much variety, and this makes the Ork half of the starter horde-y to contrast with the more elite Astartes, and serves as a throwback to the 2nd edition box. 
Despite the box being presumed a nostalgia trip, I don't think they'll include a Deff Dread. While the existing kit is oldish, I think it still holds up pretty well, and I think they'll want to make the Ork side even more hordey, to which end I think we may see a trio of Grot Tanks, or some kind of new vehicle along those lines for the Orks. 
I think the Orks will get something relatively elite, probably in the form of a trio of Nob Bikers, since it has nice symmetry with the Vanguard Vets and gets them a kit they technically don't already have. 
I think if the Orks do get any non-Grot infantry, they will be something that leans into a particular clan identity, like how Flash Gitz are a good fit for Bad Moonz, Kommandos for Blood Axes, Beast Snaggaz for Snakebites, etc. I'm thinking maybe 'Ardboyz for Goffs. 

A Warboss is an inevitability. 
I'm thinking we'll see a Weirdboy, possibly on a large base with a pair of handlers dragging him into battle. This hasn't been updated into plastic yet and the box needs a Psyker. 
Another model that needs a refresh is the Nob with Waaagh Banner, so I'd expect to see something along those lines. 
Lastly I'm going to predict some kind of new Grot character; a Lone Operative with a Precision Weapon and a Reactive Move. 

Thoughts? 

[ShibeKing]

19 minutes ago, CastellanDeMolay said:

I feel like posting my predictions here: 
For the space Marine half, I think GW will update the remaining firstborn kits: 
Tactical Squad: Two frames of 5 marines, each making 0-1 Sergeants, 2-3 marines with some kind of Bolter, 1 with a Pyreblaster and 1 with a Missile Launcher. The new Tactical squad Datasheet will change their options to being up to 1 Pyreblaster and 1 Missile Launcher per 5 models, so your old squads are technically grandfathered-in, but will have a sub-optimal loadout. 
Devastator Squad: Will probably be on the large frame alongside some of the characters, similar to the Sternguard from Leviathan, with a Sergeant, two Bolter Marines and two heavy weapons. The Datasheet will be changed to 2 Heavy weapons per 5 models. 
Vanguard Veterans: 1.5 frames, similar to the Terminators from Leviathan. 3 models, with various Wargear, and the Datasheet will update their weapon profile to a Sweep/Strike option so the weapons with which they're modeled don't matter. 
Landspeeder: This will be spread across 3 mini-sprues, similar to the Ballistus Dreadnought from leviathan. Weapons will be something like a Muti-Melta and Heavy Flamer. 
 

If you're correct, I hope the Missile Launcher is one of the older style ones and not one of those goofy Desolation launchers. 

[Lord Nord in Gravis Armour]

1 hour ago, ShibeKing said:

If you're correct, I hope the Missile Launcher is one of the older style ones and not one of those goofy Desolation launchers. 

 

I tend to think it will be going by the inclusion of a classic-style Missile Launcher in the Scout Squad kit. It's not like the Scouts couldn't handle the magnificence of the Vengor Launcher so they had to take the smaller Missile Launcher. The other "Heavy" option in that squad is still the Heavy Bolter, not some stripped-down version.

[Jukkiz]

10 hours ago, Lord Nord in Gravis Armour said:

 

I tend to think it will be going by the inclusion of a classic-style Missile Launcher in the Scout Squad kit. It's not like the Scouts couldn't handle the magnificence of the Vengor Launcher so they had to take the smaller Missile Launcher. The other "Heavy" option in that squad is still the Heavy Bolter, not some stripped-down version.

the OG "heavy bolter" ?