[RUMOUR] Blood Angels poster faction for 11th

[Mmmmm Napalm]

i doubt it will happen, but I'd like it if the "tac squad" had classic/carbine-length bolters like traditional space marines and the grey hunters. Of course, this also depends on what exactly this unit is going to be.

 

1. Is it literally a tactical squad, resized to fit in with the new marine scale and coexisting alongside intercessors?
   • If so then there's a slightly greater possibility they will have traditional bolters in order to increase their classic appeal, given that they've already been described as "mixed armor mark" (though i imagine that will mostly manifest in terms of the helmets and pauldrons; I think Blood Claws and Grey Hunters are close to what we'll get)
2.  Is it replacing both tacticals and intercessors, rolling them together and effectively turning the latter into the former?
   • then I'm afraid that it would probably be rifles. I would like rifles to become preserve of some HQ's and Sternguard, for whom they at least make a little more sense given that they are ranged specialists, but the existence of pre-existing rifle-equipped intercessor squads means that this option would basically guarantee that they have rifles, unless they abolished the rifle/carbine distinction altogether in terms of rules. Not impossible, as they did get rid of the three Bolt Rifle sub-types, but still unlikely.

Edited Wednesday at 12:29 PM by Mmmmm Napalm

[Blindhamster]

im not convinced we'll see updated devastators, and i dont think vanguard will switch to 3-man units. I think they'll be like sternguard: 5-10 but remain 2 wounds like sternguard also. I'm also not 100% on tacticals, I really do think we'll see GW do away with both intercessors and tacticals and make a combined kit, "grandfathering" both old setups for something inbetween the two

[Orange Knight]

Just straight up Tactical marines? There is 0 chance of that. If you want old Marines the Horus Heresy has you covered with all sorts of armour types, and I imagine the Scouring will get some models as well.

"Tactical Intercessors" are certainly possible. The kit is due for an upgrade. I imagine it will come with more weapon variery for the sgt (pistols, power weapons, fist, etc) and some more alternative weapons that can be taken instead of the Bolt Rifle + Greneade launchers.

And yeah, the Vanguard will be more like the re-imagined Sternguard - 2 wound models, taken in squads of 5-10.

[Robbienw]

Have it as a Tactical squad, fully replace Intercessors.

 

Special and Heavy weapons will both be optional, so you’ll be able to replicate an intercessor squad build anyway.  Have a little fluff note saying tactical squads without special/heavy are referred to as an Intercessor configuration, job done.

[MoriyaSchism]

13 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

Just straight up Tactical marines? There is 0 chance of that. If you want old Marines the Horus Heresy has you covered with all sorts of armour types, and I imagine the Scouring will get some models as well.

Does it? You can only get Tactical marines if you play Ultramarine Inductii. Why would you say there is zero chance of a new Tactical squad happening? It is the kit that outsold almost everything in their range. 

 

It's more likely that all the Tacticus pattern armour heavy/special weapon squads are going to be squatted in favour of a single Devastator style datasheet than there being more new Primaris datasheets. My prediction is that the theme for Space Marines in 11th edition will be consolidation. At one point Intercessors will be fused with the Tactical squad and a new kit will replace both. 

[Orange Knight]

Tacticus Pattern isn't going anywhere. Upcoming kits are all using it, the upgrade sprue is for Tacticus, etc.

 

The same old Primaris doomers come out in every topic. You're not asking for consolidation but for a reversal.

 

Also, the name "Intercessors" is here to stay as it's very legally distinctive, unlike "Tactical Squad"

[Blindhamster]

If the game retains abilities for each unit, I doubt we will see devastators return, there’s more room for cohesive design having themed abilities for weapon types.

 

I could see some consolidation in kits though, but we aren’t going to see the old devastator squad return as is. Eradicators (so your multimeltas) aren’t in tacticus, lascannons got a weaker equivalent in the eliminators etc.

 

desolation squads aren’t nice looking and probably don’t sell well, maybe they get dropped and we get a new kit that can take more normal looking ones?

 

I suppose they could release a combined infernus/hellblaster squad where the only difference is the guns. They could also do what Eradicators did and introduce plasma canons and heavy flamers to those units in a recut. 
 

I personally would have no issue with a unit that has bolt rifles but combined with the special and heavy weapon options of tacticals, I’d also have no issue combining the various bolter stats again, I liked the granularity but whatever really. Suspect orange knight is right though that the name intercessor is more likely to stay than tactical, best case you combine the two.

 

all that said, a straight tactical squad update like grey hunters had where they have carbines would be plenty fine still with me, the guns would be better than current bolters. I just think it’s more likely intercessors and tacticals get consolidated.

[Wugo_Heaving]

Some random conjecture regarding the old-school squads being re-made and what might be in the 11th box;

 

Tactical Squad: Basically an Intercessor squad with a heavy and special weapon, that can combat squad.
Devastator Squad: Heavy Grav weapons. The only weapon that hasn't been upgraded. Fits the name. (And maybe a weird plasma bombard option to connect with Saturnine in Heresy?)

Assault Squad: A jump pack squad with focus on ranged weapons?
Bikers: Outriders (or jet-bikes) with more weapon options, scout/outflank rules?

 

The recent Space Wolves refresh feels like they are ready to embrace the old style at the new Primaris scale, and to be honest, what the hell do you give Space Marines that they don't already have? You just remake the old units, which seems excessive, but there's no way they'll ever completely delete/discontinue the classic Tactical (and maybe Devastator) squad.

 

The one thing that really interests me though is what the odd-ball model will be. The Judiciar, Apothecary Biologis equivalent. With the last two editions it has felt like these models design ethos has been a space marine who subtly reflects something in the opposing force. Judiciar's 'time manipulation' feels like a Necron ability, the Biologis harvests genetic material like a Tyranid, etc.

 

So... if the opposing force in 11th is Orks, I'd guess a specialist Techmarine would be appropriate? Maybe once per battle allows a unit to shoot twice for Moar Dakka? (This would mirror the old Devastator ammo-baby) Or maybe he offers an ammo selector rule? Choose between better AP, S, or Lethal Hits, with each option only being able to be used once per battle. Regardless I think a tech-marine is a good fit. 

 

[Orange Knight]

It's hard to predict exactly what GW will do. One thing I'm personally hoping for is that they retire all the non Primaris kits to Legends, and consolidate some of the existing Primaris units to reduce the sheer size of the faction. A few still need to be updated as well (Vanguard, Landraider)

 

GW could spend a while actually focusing on the infividual chaptes for a few years. Flesh them out even more, release some more unique units, etc

[Mogger351]

52 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

It's hard to predict exactly what GW will do. One thing I'm personally hoping for is that they retire all the non Primaris kits to Legends, and consolidate some of the existing Primaris units to reduce the sheer size of the faction. A few still need to be updated as well (Vanguard, Landraider)

 

GW could spend a while actually focusing on the infividual chaptes for a few years. Flesh them out even more, release some more unique units, etc

Lets be honest the Repulsors are the Land Raiders of tomorrow, even if they are more gunship than assault transport. But I agree you could easily condense some of the units down slightly and make them share a datasheet and special rule. Incursors, Infiltrators and Reivers could probably buddy up with "unit has 1 of 3 wargear choices", Intercessors and Infernus could probably manage the same. Hellblasters and Desolators, same again.

[Robbienw]

3 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

Tacticus Pattern isn't going anywhere. Upcoming kits are all using it, the upgrade sprue is for Tacticus, etc.

 

The same old Primaris doomers come out in every topic. You're not asking for consolidation but for a reversal.

 

Also, the name "Intercessors" is here to stay as it's very legally distinctive, unlike "Tactical Squad"

 

Tacitus pattern (or rather i think you mean MKX) will remain around for a long time, but it won't be the spotlight 'main' armour forever.  Mk6 was the main armour for 3 years, Mk7 an incredible 27 years, MKX 8 years so far.  I suspect MKX will be replaced by MKXI sooner than 7 was replaced by X, in the quest for more revenue and newness.

 

Space Marine Tactical Squad is legally distinctive.  The distinction between Primaris and previous marines is disappearing now, everything is just becoming 'Space Marines' again, primaris is just a geneseed upgrade in the lore now.

 

Its not that hard to predict what GW will do next, there are distinct patterns to their behaviour as a company.

Edited Wednesday at 04:26 PM by Robbienw

[Rhavien]

1 hour ago, Mogger351 said:

Lets be honest the Repulsors are the Land Raiders of tomorrow, even if they are more gunship than assault transport. But I agree you could easily condense some of the units down slightly and make them share a datasheet and special rule. Incursors, Infiltrators and Reivers could probably buddy up with "unit has 1 of 3 wargear choices", Intercessors and Infernus could probably manage the same. Hellblasters and Desolators, same again.

Land Raiders won't get replaced by Repulsors like Terminators didn't get replaced by Aggressors. GW makes random silly moves we scratch ours heads and but they wont actively throwing money out of the window. 

I for one fear the updated LR as the pricetag is already high and I would probably take two.

[Dark Shepherd]

IF they include the word Tactical then that will sell more IMO or feel newer/more retro if that makes sense

 

Heavy Intercessors

Assault Intercessors (with jump packs)

 

Tactical Intercessor Squad or Intercessor Tactical Squad sounds viable to me

[Marshal Reinhard]

2 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

Lets be honest the Repulsors are the Land Raiders of tomorrow, even if they are more gunship than assault transport. But I agree you could easily condense some of the units down slightly and make them share a datasheet and special rule. Incursors, Infiltrators and Reivers could probably buddy up with "unit has 1 of 3 wargear choices", Intercessors and Infernus could probably manage the same. Hellblasters and Desolators, same again.

GW has had a decade to "consolidate" the range. It instead exploded in number.

 

Consolidation just isn't a anything theyre interested in let alone a priority.

[DemonGSides]

Yeah expecting the Land Raider to leave the SM faction now just shows how easy it is to be taken by illogical and unfounded despair.

 

Five years ago?  Sure, the concern makes some sense. But seeing the rampant success of old style stuff mixed in alongside Primaris should be an obvious "Oh duh of course GW will milk the nostalgia" to everyone who's more than a fair weather fan of this property.   Combined with two sets of terminators coming out that are quite literally just re-scaled versions of the old stuff should be more of a "Oh :cuss: does this mean we are getting a new LR sculpt?"

[Mogger351]

44 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

Yeah expecting the Land Raider to leave the SM faction now just shows how easy it is to be taken by illogical and unfounded despair.

 

Five years ago?  Sure, the concern makes some sense. But seeing the rampant success of old style stuff mixed in alongside Primaris should be an obvious "Oh duh of course GW will milk the nostalgia" to everyone who's more than a fair weather fan of this property.   Combined with two sets of terminators coming out that are quite literally just re-scaled versions of the old stuff should be more of a "Oh does this mean we are getting a new LR sculpt?"

Oh great, continued bloat, lets hope they don't start stormcasting waves of the range instead of consolidating.

[Evil Eye]

A new Land Raider done with the same care as the Terminators would be wonderful. The current kit is, to put it plainly, knackered. Parts are warped and don't line up properly, egregious mouldlines, massive gaps, whatever the hell is going on with that interior, flash, sinkholes and even pitting on some parts...put the poor thing out to pasture and make a new one already! If the Proteus kit is anything to go by it should be great.

[Marshal Reinhard]

30 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Oh great, continued bloat, lets hope they don't start stormcasting waves of the range instead of consolidating.

A renewed land raider kit could only be considered bloat if it did not replace the current one but was meant to go along side it.

 

Me? I'd consider one "about damn time"

[DemonGSides]

50 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Oh great, continued bloat, lets hope they don't start stormcasting waves of the range instead of consolidating.

 

One to one replacement is basically the opposite of bloat but go off, I guess. 

Edited Wednesday at 07:25 PM by DemonGSides

[Mogger351]

19 minutes ago, DemonGSides said:

 

One to one replacement is basically the opposite of bloat but go off, I guess. 

They've already done the bloating, theres talk of jetbikes, more landspeeders and another mainline infantry unit. They could already stand to have a hefty trim of the fat.

 

Even then lets be honest, the ability for assault terminators is flat out worse than the terminator squad. Just make it a gear swap and trim down a unit entry. Then repeat that 30 times.

[MoriyaSchism]

7 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

Tacticus Pattern isn't going anywhere. Upcoming kits are all using it, the upgrade sprue is for Tacticus, etc.

 

The same old Primaris doomers come out in every topic. You're not asking for consolidation but for a reversal.

 

Also, the name "Intercessors" is here to stay as it's very legally distinctive, unlike "Tactical Squad"

Did I say anything about Tacticus going away? I'm talking about the three datasheets we have featuring units wearing Tacticus armour: Infernus Squad, Hellblasters and the Desolation Squad. Those getting fused in some sort of special weapon or heavy weapon squad would be consolidation. If that's "a reversal" does that make having a separate datasheet for each special weapon in the Space Marine range "progress"?

Edited Wednesday at 08:26 PM by MoriyaSchism

[Blindhamster]

16 minutes ago, MoriyaSchism said:

Did I say anything about Tacticus going away? I'm talking about the three datasheets we have featuring units wearing Tacticus armour: Infernus Squad, Hellblasters and the Desolation Squad. Those getting fused in some sort of special weapon or heavy weapon squad would be consolidation. If that's "a reversal" does that make having a separate datasheet for each special weapon in the Space Marine range "progress"?

 

depends, if you like the simplicity of all models having the same profile for attacks and/or you like the variety of different special rules for units based on the weapon "yes", if you like variety of weapon profiles within a single squad "no". 

Tbf, the reason GW went for full loadouts was probably because thats what most people did with their devastators - and typically lamented the deadweight of the 5 bolter marines (or just didn't use them). It was also a nod to the HH setups (albeit they dont have special rules in the 40k way so actually do have a single unit sheet with the option to pick between x, y or z loadouts).

 

 

 

 

[MoriyaSchism]

1 minute ago, Blindhamster said:

 

depends, if you like the simplicity of all models having the same profile for attacks and/or you like the variety of different special rules for units based on the weapon "yes", if you like variety of weapon profiles within a single squad "no". 

Tbf, the reason GW went for full loadouts was probably because thats what most people did with their devastators - and typically lamented the deadweight of the 5 bolter marines (or just didn't use them). It was also a nod to the HH setups (albeit they dont have special rules in the 40k way so actually do have a single unit sheet with the option to pick between x, y or z loadouts).

 

When I work on my Primaris models I always feel there is a great deal of wasted space on Primaris infantry frames and there is always room for improvement. The Heresy unit model is good, you could have a basic Tacticus weapon squad with 5 bodies coupled with different weapon frames. 

[Mmmmm Napalm]

49 minutes ago, MoriyaSchism said:

When I work on my Primaris models I always feel there is a great deal of wasted space on Primaris infantry frames and there is always room for improvement. The Heresy unit model is good, you could have a basic Tacticus weapon squad with 5 bodies coupled with different weapon frames. 

It's funny and somewhat frustrating that a decent amount of space is dedicated to the reciever&magazine bits for the three bolt rifle variants, which is now pointless given that they've been condensed into a single profile. It's possible that the standard/auto/stalker choice will return next edition of course. I don't particularly care if it does, but I *do* want them to regain their senses and ditch the "one profile for all combi weapons" nonsense.

Edited Wednesday at 09:37 PM by Mmmmm Napalm

[Karhedron]

6 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

But I agree you could easily condense some of the units down slightly and make them share a datasheet and special rule. Incursors, Infiltrators and Reivers could probably buddy up with "unit has 1 of 3 wargear choices", Intercessors and Infernus could probably manage the same. Hellblasters and Desolators, same again.

 

Having split Devastators into distinct units based on gun, I don't see the value of squashing other units together in the name of consolidation. Keeping the weapons separate allows GW to give each squad rules that suit and price them accordingly. For better or worse, wargear prices have gone away and I don't see them coming back. That means I don't see squads getting different loadouts. The only SM squad I can think of that still does this are Assault Terminators and most people find the Lightning Claw variant inferior the TH/SS version.