[RUMOUR] Blood Angels poster faction for 11th

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

To me, the logical way of doing it is a balance of embracing some classic ideas and merging them with modern Primaris.

 

Tactical Intercessors - Mixed armour marks, Bolt Rifles, Sergeant options (melee, pistols & possibly Combi weapons), "For every five models in this unit, you may replace one model's Bolt Rifle with either one weapon from the Tacticus Special Weapons List or the Tacticus Heavy Weapons list"

Tacticus Special Weapon List

• Pyreblaster
• Plasma Incinerator
• Melta Rifle
• Grav-Rifle - or whatever they end up calling it
• Neo-Volkite Rifle - or whatever they end up calling it

Tacticus Heavy Weapon List

• Heavy Bolter
• Pyrecannon
• Heavy Plasma Incinerator
• Missle Launcher - could be the current desolation squad's super-duper rocket lauchers or could be a more classic missile launcher

Then, for the Heavy Intercessors, have them set up much the same way: Heavy Bolt Rifles, Sergeant options (melee, pistols & possibly Combi weapons), "For every five models in this unit, you may replace one model's Heavy Bolt Rifle with one weapon from the Gravis Heavy Weapons List"

 

Gravis Heavy Weapon List

• Heavy Bolter
• Pyrecannon
• Heavy Plasma Incinerator
• Multi-Melta
• Grav-Cannon

Though process here is that Gravis armour is for more up-close heavy weapons. Now, there's still the Lascannon problem. Do we have one? Or is the Las-Fusil the hand-held high powered las weapon of the Astartes? If so, it fits the design choice of giving the longest ranged weapons to Phobos armoured units. I have thought Eliminators shoul also maybe have a missle launcher of some sort. Think in Dune Part 2 when the Fremen attack the spice harvester with las weapons and rocket launchers from their concealed positions - that's how I imagine eliminators when they're not assassinating with Bolt Snipers.

[Mogger351]

11 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Having split Devastators into distinct units based on gun, I don't see the value of squashing other units together in the name of consolidation. Keeping the weapons separate allows GW to give each squad rules that suit and price them accordingly. For better or worse, wargear prices have gone away and I don't see them coming back. That means I don't see squads getting different loadouts. The only SM squad I can think of that still does this are Assault Terminators and most people find the Lightning Claw variant inferior the TH/SS version.

Yes, this is literally the definition of needless bloat though.

[Evil Eye]

1 hour ago, Mogger351 said:

Yes, this is literally the definition of needless bloat though.

To be perfectly honest, this is exactly why removing wargear costs doesn't work. Without it you either have to split every mono-loadout into its own sheet, or have options which are completely and utterly imbalanced. Like I'm not a balance-hound or tournament player, but a plasma cannon and heavy bolter should not cost the same.

[Mogger351]

49 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

To be perfectly honest, this is exactly why removing wargear costs doesn't work. Without it you either have to split every mono-loadout into its own sheet, or have options which are completely and utterly imbalanced. Like I'm not a balance-hound or tournament player, but a plasma cannon and heavy bolter should not cost the same.

Yup, gotta agree this is a symptom of a decision that was made in error to a degree. If parity between options was genuinely achieved then sure, but some things need points values as they can't always manage that.

 

Likewise I imagine an intercessor squad replacing their bolt rifles with pyreblasters for 10/20 per unit for 5/10 models isn't going to break the space time continuum.

[Crimson Longinus]

On 10/15/2025 at 3:26 PM, Mmmmm Napalm said:

 

1. Is it literally a tactical squad, resized to fit in with the new marine scale and coexisting alongside intercessors?
   • If so then there's a slightly greater possibility they will have traditional bolters in order to increase their classic appeal, given that they've already been described as "mixed armor mark" (though i imagine that will mostly manifest in terms of the helmets and pauldrons; I think Blood Claws and Grey Hunters are close to what we'll get)
2.  Is it replacing both tacticals and intercessors, rolling them together and effectively turning the latter into the former?
   • then I'm afraid that it would probably be rifles. I would like rifles to become preserve of some HQ's and Sternguard, for whom they at least make a little more sense given that they are ranged specialists, but the existence of pre-existing rifle-equipped intercessor squads means that this option would basically guarantee that they have rifles, unless they abolished the rifle/carbine distinction altogether in terms of rules. Not impossible, as they did get rid of the three Bolt Rifle sub-types, but still unlikely.

 

I'd prefer #1. I like Intercessors and bolt rifles, but I also like how small bolters look on the Grey Hunters. For variety, I want to be able to have both. And generally I feel that it is good if there is multiple battleline units to choose from. Granted, rules-wise it might be challenging to find a distinct niche for both. 

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

4 minutes ago, Crimson Longinus said:

I'd prefer #1. I like Intercessors and bolt rifles, but I also like how small bolters look on the Grey Hunters. For variety, I want to be able to have both. And generally I feel that it is good if there is multiple battleline units to choose from. Granted, rules-wise it might be challenging to find a distinct niche for both. 

I feel the carbine bolters (older small patern) are for phobos these days, Space Wolves excluded obviously as they can't read.

[Rhavien]

4 hours ago, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

Then, for the Heavy Intercessors, have them set up much the same way: Heavy Bolt Rifles, Sergeant options (melee, pistols & possibly Combi weapons), "For every five models in this unit, you may replace one model's Heavy Bolt Rifle with one weapon from the Gravis Heavy Weapons List"

 

Gravis Heavy Weapon List

• Heavy Bolter
• Pyrecannon
• Heavy Plasma Incinerator
• Multi-Melta
• Grav-Cannon

Though process here is that Gravis armour is for more up-close heavy weapons. Now, there's still the Lascannon problem. Do we have one? Or is the Las-Fusil the hand-held high powered las weapon of the Astartes? If so, it fits the design choice of giving the longest ranged weapons to Phobos armoured units. I have thought Eliminators shoul also maybe have a missle launcher of some sort. Think in Dune Part 2 when the Fremen attack the spice harvester with las weapons and rocket launchers from their concealed positions - that's how I imagine eliminators when they're not assassinating with Bolt Snipers.

Don't forget the Las Talon. That would be your close range, higher RoF Lascannon suiting gravis marines.

[ChapterMasterGodfrey]

15 minutes ago, Rhavien said:

Don't forget the Las Talon. That would be your close range, higher RoF Lascannon suiting gravis marines.

I did forget Las Talon - but no infantry unit can currently take it. If one could, do you not think it'd be better in the hands of a Tacticus? Mid range? It's not exactly close range.

[Wispy]

41 minutes ago, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

I feel the carbine bolters (older small patern) are for phobos these days, Space Wolves excluded obviously as they can't read.

Ultramarines Honourguard have carbines.

[Blindhamster]

22 minutes ago, Wispy said:

Ultramarines Honourguard have carbines.

this is actually a pretty good indication we're going to see more of it honestly.

[lhg033]

21 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

A new Land Raider done with the same care as the Terminators would be wonderful. The current kit is, to put it plainly, knackered. Parts are warped and don't line up properly, egregious mouldlines, massive gaps, whatever the hell is going on with that interior, flash, sinkholes and even pitting on some parts...put the poor thing out to pasture and make a new one already! If the Proteus kit is anything to go by it should be great.

I would both love and fear this.

I have 4, maybe 5 (I have genuinely lost track of what is in the loft!), landraiders and I certainly dont need more but I could easily be tempted if it is an decent upgrade or gives a bit of variety.

[Mmmmm Napalm]

3 hours ago, Crimson Longinus said:

 

I'd prefer #1. I like Intercessors and bolt rifles, but I also like how small bolters look on the Grey Hunters. For variety, I want to be able to have both. And generally I feel that it is good if there is multiple battleline units to choose from. Granted, rules-wise it might be challenging to find a distinct niche for both. 

yeah the grey hunters look so good, it really put into perspective for me how much i missed teh classic bolters and how much better i think they look for the average marine. Made me lament that its the neophytes that who have the carbines, and not the initiates in BT crusader squads. i hate the stupid rotat-y thing on the auto bolters. at least for standard and stalker BR's its a connection point for electronic scope 

Edited 7 hours ago by Mmmmm Napalm

[Rhavien]

4 hours ago, ChapterMasterGodfrey said:

I did forget Las Talon - but no infantry unit can currently take it. If one could, do you not think it'd be better in the hands of a Tacticus? Mid range? It's not exactly close range.

You are right, 24" are not close range. But compared to HBs and MMs it sits in the middle. It would also make sense in universe I think. It's half the range of a classic Lascannon which qualifies for wearing heavy armour. Also I see no problem for infantry to have it. Lascannons are pretty common amongst tactical and devastator squads after all.

[DemonGSides]

The "las fusil" might as well just be "las talon, but for infantry" considering it's statline is almost exactly the same (Talons get +1 on the damage comparatively), so I don't think it's insane to think of it as a possible avenue in the future.

 

But I would still much prefer to get some Primaris with Las Cannons.  Las Talons are mostly anemic at this point into the stuff you want to aim them at, which is heavy armor that your infantry traditionally don't do too well against.  There's plenty of weapons that can hit well below T10, but not much that hits well into T10+, at least outside of Devastators.

 

Give us our 5 man tacticus squad with Las Cannons.  Cmon GW, you cowards.  Call em Lasinators or something, I don't care.  I just want that sweet sweet S12.

[The Praetorian of Inwit]

A squad with Lascannons - or probably Lasfusils - would be good. 

 

Even better would be just give us an updated Devastator Squad with options but GW hates options these days. 

 

If BA are poster for 11th, maybe Crimson Fists for 12th.

 

Have there been any rumours on any vehicles in the launch box? The Ork Trukk badly needs a new kit. It would be nice to see the Rhino/Predator/Land Raider updated, but I doubt GW wants to continue tracked vehicles for Primaris. I could see a new Gladiator/Impulsor varient. 

Edited 5 hours ago by The Praetorian of Inwit

[Karhedron]

11 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

Yes, this is literally the definition of needless bloat though.

 

That is your definition of needless bloat. GW seem perfectly happy with the arrangement of mono-loadout squads that they can price individually rather than a single squad with variably priced wargear. That is the reason I don't expect to see any consolidation, it would require a complete 180 from a design paradigm that GW seem quite content with.

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, DemonGSides said:

The "las fusil" might as well just be "las talon, but for infantry" considering it's statline is almost exactly the same (Talons get +1 on the damage comparatively), so I don't think it's insane to think of it as a possible avenue in the future.

 

Las Talons are 2 shots at S10, Las Fusils are only 1 shot at S9. Given that most Tanks are T10+, I don't see an S9 gun as a serious anti-tank threat. It doesn't help that Eliminators (the only squad that can take them) come in units of 3 on 40mm bases. I occasionally run my BA Devastators with Lascannons and they do OK but I don't think Las Fusils would do anything close to it. Las Talons might work as the combination of S10 and higher RoF mean they could be meaningful.

 

Long-ranged, infantry-mounted anti tank seems to be in short supply for Primaris. We have short ranged AT in the form of Eradicators and decent long ranged stuff on vehicles so if the Devastators do go to Legends without a Lascannon replacement squad, it will be disappointing but not exactly crippling.

35 minutes ago, The Praetorian of Inwit said:

Have there been any rumours on any vehicles in the launch box?

 

There have been rumours of a new Speeder for Marines with Transport, a bit like the old Landspeeder Storm. I am not sure if this will be actually in the starter box or just part of the inevitable 11th edition Marine release wave.

[Mogger351]

7 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

That is your definition of needless bloat. GW seem perfectly happy with the arrangement of mono-loadout squads that they can price individually rather than a single squad with variably priced wargear. That is the reason I don't expect to see any consolidation, it would require a complete 180 from a design paradigm that GW seem quite content with.

Just... I know GW like box = rules = unique. But can you honestly in good faith say that you can't see how this is bloat? I'm not talking about a fat stack wargear list, I'm talking about 2 units that literally fulfil the same role in the army, becoming 1 unit with mono loadouts, a flat price and a flat "upgrade" price? The only benefit, which I use loosely, is bespoke unit rules, which in turn is a form of bloat due to not centralising a lot of them as USRs.

[Karhedron]

Just now, Mogger351 said:

Just... I know GW like box = rules = unique. But can you honestly in good faith say that you can't see how this is bloat?

 

No, I am just saying that anyone thinking or hoping to see consolidation in 11th edition is probably setting themselves up for a disappointment based on current trajectory. The issue is not so much what I think but that GW apparently does not see it as bloat (or at least does not see bloat as a problem).

[Mogger351]

36 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

No, I am just saying that anyone thinking or hoping to see consolidation in 11th edition is probably setting themselves up for a disappointment based on current trajectory. The issue is not so much what I think but that GW apparently does not see it as bloat (or at least does not see bloat as a problem).

They're on record on warhammer tv stating they understand that the current system doesn't work and some options are simply not comparable and need a cost. They note sisters with a multimelta as an example in comparison to a heavy bolter.

 

So no, I don't believe it's impossible that they can course correct to some degree.

[DemonGSides]

1 hour ago, Karhedron said:

 

Las Talons are 2 shots at S10, Las Fusils are only 1 shot at S9. Given that most Tanks are T10+, I don't see an S9 gun as a serious anti-tank threat. It doesn't help that Eliminators (the only squad that can take them) come in units of 3 on 40mm bases. I occasionally run my BA Devastators with Lascannons and they do OK but I don't think Las Fusils would do anything close to it. Las Talons might work as the combination of S10 and higher RoF mean they could be meaningful.

 

Long-ranged, infantry-mounted anti tank seems to be in short supply for Primaris. We have short ranged AT in the form of Eradicators and decent long ranged stuff on vehicles so if the Devastators do go to Legends without a Lascannon replacement squad, it will be disappointing but not exactly crippling.

 

There have been rumours of a new Speeder for Marines with Transport, a bit like the old Landspeeder Storm. I am not sure if this will be actually in the starter box or just part of the inevitable 11th edition Marine release wave.

 

 

Not all las-talons are made equally, but the ones I expect to be on infantry would most likely be S9, due to the Las Fusil.  I wouldn't expect them to give a Las-talon at S10 to an infantry when they've decided that S10 Las-talons exist on Vehicles or on weapon platforms (See Repulsor/Firestrike Servo turret).

This is why, in the part you cut out, I laid out that the lascannon is just overall a better decision to equip as a "heavy weapon".

Edited 2 hours ago by DemonGSides

[Dark Shepherd]

In one of the designer interviews? They confirmed/blurted/implied that SOME wargear points costs are coming back

 

Dont wuote me on this though

[jaxom]

Because so much of this topic has become less about Blood Angels as the Marine poster faction for 11th and more general, no basis, discussion generic Marine units to be included in the 11th launch box: