Fans protest at warhammer world

[Evil Eye]

6 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

It absolutely is though, because annoying the heck out of the annoying part of a fan base makes me and the rest of the more stable fan base feel good inside. 

Define "the annoying part of the fanbase". People that have actual expectations of quality from the biggest wargames company in the world?

Edited 13 hours ago by Evil Eye
Double post. Whoops!

[Orange Knight]

18 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

Define "the annoying part of the fanbase". People that have actual expectations of quality from the biggest wargames company in the world?

 

Quality is hard to quantify and doesn't apply to all aspects of the Warhammer hobby.

 

-Do GW offer the most expansive (and expensive lol) wargame, with the biggest range of models, the most factions, the most variety of plastic kits, with the most frequent release schedule?
Yes, they absolutely do.

 

-Is the actual tabletop game as good as the models they sell? 

Absolutely not lol

 

 

[Dark Shepherd]

I kinda want an Orks/St Patricks Day crossover protest

[Vassakov]

1 hour ago, Evil Eye said:

Define "the annoying part of the fanbase". People that have actual expectations of quality from the biggest wargames company in the world?

 

My expectations - and indeed the expectations of many posters here - might not be the expectations of the majority of the customers though. We're in a bubble, of a bubble, perched on a fairly niche bubble.

 

Given the record profits, record event attendance and record amount of people taking part in the hobby - in all it's guises - I'd suggest that they are meeting expectations of enough of their fanbase. However, in business as in politics - you simply cannot please everyone. From a business perspective, at least for now, it's clearly working - even if some who have memories of how it used to be might be annoyed by many of the changes. 

[Evil Eye]

3 hours ago, Vassakov said:

Given the record profits, record event attendance and record amount of people taking part in the hobby - in all it's guises - I'd suggest that they are meeting expectations of enough of their fanbase.

I understand this argument, but I personally disagree with it. It's not that they've actually made improvements to the overall quality of the product (the rules especially are IMO the worst they have ever been) so much as they instead shifted their focus to a market with much lower expectations at the expense of the original fanbase. Hobby trumpet, lowest common denominator and all that. After all, McDonald's is a massively successful company but nobody would call their product high quality.

[HeadlessCross]

18 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

the rules especially are IMO the worst they have ever been

The rules have ALWAYS been bad. Anything fond you remember from older editions is rose tinted glasses. 

[phandaal]

23 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

After all, McDonald's is a massively successful company but nobody would call their product high quality.

 

Funny, buying new GW kits at or close to modern prices makes me feel similar to how I feel after eating too much (i.e., any) McDonald's. 

 

3 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

The rules have ALWAYS been bad. Anything fond you remember from older editions is rose tinted glasses. 

 

So it is really saying something to be at the lowest point of that, yeah?

 

Uh, keeping things on topic... Ultramarines, they are the worst!

[DeadFingers]

So it'd seem that the Voidscarred Corsairs have disappeared from GW's webstore entirely. Valrak can't find them in the UK store, I can't find them in my regional store, and I'm being told by other folks from other places that they're also gone in their region.

 

Rather suspicious suddenly vanishing like that without a warning. Makes one think they might be getting reboxed for a re-release of some sort. Wonder if they'll address this disappearing act soon.

Edited 8 hours ago by DeadFingers

[Evil Eye]

16 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

The rules have ALWAYS been bad. Anything fond you remember from older editions is rose tinted glasses. 

Or, you know, from older editions actually being fun and immersive compared to what we have now.

 

Genuine question- why are you even here? You by your own admission don't like any incarnation of the rules, you've never posted a single miniature, and you seem to have zero interest in the fluff (to the point of being outright mad when people suggest the rules should reflect it better). I might complain about many aspects of the current state of the game, but there are still things even modern GW does that I like and I still actually talk about 40K. 

[Indy Techwisp]

Have they posted another video today, or did they just drop this after 3 skits?

[ZeroWolf]

1 minute ago, Indy Techwisp said:

Have they posted another video today, or did they just drop this after 3 skits?

Possibly ended it but we don't know for sure, they could revive it later this week for all we know depending on what it actually is. Given we could be looking at a Total War 40k announcement tomorrow (stress the could be part) they may have wanted to give some space for that to land before continuing. We literally do not know at this point in time.

[Wispy]

4 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

 

Quality is hard to quantify and doesn't apply to all aspects of the Warhammer hobby.

 

-Do GW offer the most expansive (and expensive lol) wargame, with the biggest range of models, the most factions, the most variety of plastic kits, with the most frequent release schedule?
Yes, they absolutely do.

 

-Is the actual tabletop game as good as the models they sell? 

Absolutely not lol

It's kind of a weird dynamic because there's a drop off at participation each stage of the hobby. People who buy, model, paint, and then play a wargame with the models are unicorns. The rules are the worst part of GW's business but they're also a niche in a niche. 

 

I only buy and paint so I'm very satisfied with GW's offerings. I don't wargame so there's no pressure to buy multiple kits or vehicles, I can content myself with just 1 of something in my collection. An army box is big savings & often just a 1 time annual expense for models. I'm not pressured to buy things I don't want just because they're competitive. I don't have to worry about expenses for carrying cases or the like. 

 

[Gamiel]

35 minutes ago, DeadFingers said:

So it'd seem that the Voidscarred Corsairs have disappeared from GW's webstore entirely. Valrak can't find them in the UK store, I can't find them in my regional store, and I'm being told by other folks from other places that they're also gone in their region.

 

Rather suspicious suddenly vanishing like that without a warning. Makes one think they might be getting reboxed for a re-release of some sort. Wonder if they'll address this disappearing act soon.

They will return as Ultramarine Corsairs!

[TheMawr]

21 minutes ago, DeadFingers said:

So it'd seem that the Voidscarred Corsairs have disappeared from GW's webstore entirely. Valrak can't find them in the UK store, I can't find them in my regional store, and I'm being told by other folks from other places that they're also gone in their region.

 

Rather suspicious suddenly vanishing like that without a warning. Makes one think they might be getting reboxed for a re-release of some sort. Wonder if they'll address this disappearing act soon.

 

They have dissapeared for over a month now, ( they where gone when the Voidscarred book went in pre-order ) its not that new. This is the reason why  I think the Corsairs box being the christmas reveal is likely, its not just wishful thinking. ( combined with assuming the GW video held a hint that the "box" was not a single kit but something with multiple kits, wich ofcourse might not be a hint at all.) Its interesting though, the imminentness of both signs and rumors suggest they are more likely to drop around the time of 500 Worlds Titus instead of featuring in their own book, and there is even hints in the 500 worlds reveal that alludes to something more featuring than just Ultramarines (or any of their allies) and Necrons as it will have a 3 way battle narrative campaign.. but its also clear their rules nor presence are a feature point in 500 world Titus.

 

Since the reveal Im patiently waiting to learn more about that third player, though it could be a low-key chaos presence in book 1 that escalates in book 2 or something.

[HeadlessCross]

2 hours ago, phandaal said:

So it is really saying something to be at the lowest point of that, yeah?

That's not quantifiable except to people blinded by "old good, new bad".

 

The rules have ALWAYS been equally bad through all editions whether it be due to power creep (yes that did happen in old editions too) or never updating rules or odd rules interactions/holes. 

 

Ever notice the defense is "the old rules are actually better and you just have to XYZ"? If you have to modify how the game is played, the game wasn't well designed to begin with. 

[HeadlessCross]

2 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

Or, you know, from older editions actually being fun and immersive compared to what we have now.

 

Genuine question- why are you even here? You by your own admission don't like any incarnation of the rules, you've never posted a single miniature, and you seem to have zero interest in the fluff (to the point of being outright mad when people suggest the rules should reflect it better). I might complain about many aspects of the current state of the game, but there are still things even modern GW does that I like and I still actually talk about 40K. 

The rules are the same level of immersion, just with a few less upgrades. Hate to break it to you that everyone purchasing Artificer Armor for their Captains isn't immersion. As well, you clearly haven't understood my various complaints with various bespoke rules because that summary doesn't actually make sense. I still play on the occasion but I'm not around pretending old rules are greater quality because they're genuinely not, nor will I pretend there isn't a ton that can be improved. 

 

I also don't post miniatures due to the fact I'm in the process of stripping apart my older models and incorporating Tortuga Mk3 stuff (which I only shared one picture of an unpainted guy to share a size comparison to Manlet Marines a few months ago) and not having a lot complete due to work/school, and don't feel like sharing incomplete work. 

[Evil Eye]

20 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

That's not quantifiable except to people blinded by "old good, new bad".

 

As opposed to people blinded by "old bad, new good"?

20 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

The rules have ALWAYS been equally bad through all editions

Absolutely not. Compare late 3rd/early 4th to 5th-7th (let alone 8th onwards). The amount of features and cool content we've lost since then is depressing to think about.

20 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

Ever notice the defense is "the old rules are actually better and you just have to XYZ"?

When the "XYZ" is "Just don't play this one very specific borked list/combination/tactic and you'll have a good time" as opposed to "Just wait for the next balance patch to drop and invalidate half the contents of the book you paid for and maybe the game will be semi-enjoyable if you squint" then yes, old is absolutely better than new. There's always been broken combos and there always will, because they're inescapable in a game as complex and as asymmetric as 40K, but not only does modern 40K have just as many if not more than older editions did, it's gotten rid of a lot of what made 40K fun to begin with.

20 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

If you have to modify how the game is played, the game wasn't well designed to begin with. 

Exercising basic common decency and not using well-known game-breaking combos or exploiting metagaming is several orders of magnitude less of a "modification" than what is required to make 10th even remotely enjoyable.

6 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

The rules are the same level of immersion, just with a few less upgrades.

"A few"? Compare the 4th edition Tyranid Warrior options to their current options. Never mind things like the old vehicle design rules.

7 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

Hate to break it to you that everyone purchasing Artificer Armor for their Captains isn't immersion.

Oh. You're one of those. Guess what, not everyone treats every game like a tournament and min-maxes their lists regardless of environment.

9 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

As well, you clearly haven't understood my various complaints with various bespoke rules because that summary doesn't actually make sense.

Which is funny, because the "too many bespoke rules" problem is almost entirely a modern phenomenon, since GW decided a basic armoury and universal wargear list that an army drew from was no good. Remember when a bolter was a bolter regardless of who was holding it?

13 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

I still play on the occasion but I'm not around pretending old rules are greater quality because they're genuinely not, nor will I pretend there isn't a ton that can be improved. 

They absolutely are though; you simply have a completely skewed idea of what a wargame should be.

  

Edited 5 hours ago by Evil Eye

[Nephaston]

4 minutes ago, Evil Eye said:

As opposed to people blinded by "old bad, new good"?

In my objectively correct Observation that supersedes every other Opinion it is "old bad, new bad"

[phandaal]

33 minutes ago, HeadlessCross said:

That's not quantifiable 

...

The rules have ALWAYS been equally bad through all editions

 

If determining which edition has the worst rules is not possible because there is not a quantifiable metric, then neither is saying they are equally bad. In which case, we can forget this interaction ever happened.

 

Time to get back to being angry about Ultramarines and looking down my nose at anyone who has the wrong opinions about this marketing thing.

[Scribe]

Rules always having been bad is perhaps true, from certain perspectives. 

 

The rules now, being the worst ever, is also true.

 

Both statements coexist. 

 

Anyway, getting bent out of shape over this pretty tame campaign is a choice.

[Mogger351]

Peoples wildly subjective opinions being aired as fact and everyone stomping their own subjective opinions on top of them as facts, coming to this thread near you.

[DeadFingers]

2 hours ago, TheMawr said:

Since the reveal Im patiently waiting to learn more about that third player, though it could be a low-key chaos presence in book 1 that escalates in book 2 or something.

Well by the sound of it, in the new Cawl novel he's in Ultramar and there's a whole bit about Iron Warriors fighting Eldar Corsairs. Then there's some DarkMech plus Vashtorr shenanigans (mostly Vashtorr doing the shenaniganry).

 

I don't know where in the rather wobbly timeline of events this novel sits, or if its contents were written with any upcoming releases in mind to begin with, but the rumours do line up quite conveniently with that particular matchup. At least the first half.

Edited 5 hours ago by DeadFingers

[SvenIronhand]

I would like to see more from the Corsair line of models; Prince Yriel in particular would be baller.

[Laurence]

3 hours ago, DeadFingers said:

So it'd seem that the Voidscarred Corsairs have disappeared from GW's webstore entirely. Valrak can't find them in the UK store, I can't find them in my regional store, and I'm being told by other folks from other places that they're also gone in their region.

 

Rather suspicious suddenly vanishing like that without a warning. Makes one think they might be getting reboxed for a re-release of some sort. Wonder if they'll address this disappearing act soon.

Probably just being re-boxed into standard 40k packaging instead of the Kill Team token-inclusive set.

[ThaneOfTas]

31 minutes ago, DeadFingers said:

I don't know where in the rather wobbly timeline of events this novel sits, or if its contents were written with any upcoming releases in mind to begin with

I'm fairly certain that it's set pretty far forward in the timeline. Certainly post Arks of Omen and the Pariah Nexus.

 

Also early in the book, Tetrach Felix runs down a list of the foes that he's seen dealing with in his area of Ultramar, and it certainly seemed like most of the other factions in a campaign series to me. Plus the book ends with Felix jetting off with Cawl to the Rift, which explains why Titus has to pick up the slack.