Rumors 10th Anniversary Intercessor Squad, new options (Helmets, torsos and more)

[Karhedron]

12 hours ago, Blissful Brushes said:

Does feel like they have dramatically dumbed down the pure hobbying side significantly. I doubt it’ll get better as more people dip their toes in from playing SM2 and will find the push fit/mono pose style more than enough for their first foray.

 

As a counterpoint to some extent, fixed squad loadouts means you can mess about a bit more with conversions. If a squad has a mono-loadout, you can get creative and capture the feeling of the squad and it does not matter on the tabletop. You can have guys throwing grenades are using scavenged weapons safe in the knowledge that as long as you tell your opponent what the squad is, the wargear on individual models does not matter.

[HeadlessCross]

6 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

As a counterpoint to some extent, fixed squad loadouts means you can mess about a bit more with conversions. If a squad has a mono-loadout, you can get creative and capture the feeling of the squad and it does not matter on the tabletop. You can have guys throwing grenades are using scavenged weapons safe in the knowledge that as long as you tell your opponent what the squad is, the wargear on individual models does not matter.

Until those fixed loadouts are one of every weapon and you're doing 6-8 different shooting activations on a single unit (here's looking at you, Kabal units!)

[Mogger351]

2 hours ago, HeadlessCross said:

Until those fixed loadouts are one of every weapon and you're doing 6-8 different shooting activations on a single unit (here's looking at you, Kabal units!)

I mean you just suggested intercessors should have 6 (2 grenade launchers, 1 special, 1 heavy, Sgt pistol and bolt rifles).

[apologist]

Suggestions on the specifics aside, I do hope that the rumour has some basis in fact. I quite like the facelessness and anonymity of Intercessors (reminds me of when the Mark VII plate came in to replace Mark VI), but even so I'd prefer the option for visual variety – the new Space Wolves look great, for example; combining updated versions of classic armour alongside the new mark. Aesthetically, there're bits I like and bits I dislike about Mk X armour, but that's the case for all the various marks of armour. I certainly have no objection to MK X being the de facto standard, but would like to see more than a nod to the older models in this rumoured new set.

 

Equipment-wise, I agree that getting rid of the various different magazines seems an obvious way to breathe some space into the sprues for additions. I'd particularly love to see banners and older helms/armour parts be options. As to weapon options? Again, great if they're there, but I think GW will find a tricky balance to change back the basic squad to a flexible Tactical Squad-like squad while keeping the specialists (Hellblasters, whatever those awful missile launcher things are called) in fixed squads.

 

More broadly, I think the concept of Intercessors as a purely rifle-armed squad was a good one in terms of streamlining things and giving them a bit of identity  to distinguish them from existing Space Marines when they came out, but I confess to preferring the Tactical Squad approach for the simple reason that making decisions on which weapon or equipment I put on a models made the figures feel less like gaming tokens and more like 'my army'.

[phandaal]

29 minutes ago, apologist said:

making decisions on which weapon or equipment I put on a models made the figures feel less like gaming tokens and more like 'my army'.

 

100%. Armor variety helps with this as well. Not every Tactical Marine is going to be carrying something special, but you still get to make choices with the chest piece, helmet, shoulder pads, legs etc. To me that felt like a big step up from the even older monopose plastic guys.

 

I did like Mk X at first when it was shiny and new, but after a while seeing it with all the exact same setups (chest: gorget, legs: knee pads + rims, helmet: Mk X) does make it feel more bland.

[Karhedron]

34 minutes ago, apologist said:

Suggestions on the specifics aside, I do hope that the rumour has some basis in fact. I quite like the facelessness and anonymity of Intercessors (reminds me of when the Mark VII plate came in to replace Mark VI), but even so I'd prefer the option for visual variety – the new Space Wolves look great, for example; combining updated versions of classic armour alongside the new mark.

 

Space Wolves have a history of mixed armour marks in squads. In fact I think the original metal Blood Claw and Grey Hunter squads were the first GW produced that had mixed armour Mks. Personally I could see something like the 3rd edition Tactical squad set where you get enough parts to make 10 guys in the latest armour but you have some older parts mixed in for decoration if you wish the use them. The downside here is that plastic kits are less flexible these days so apart from helmets, it is hard to mix and match parts.

 

 

 

 

[Indy Techwisp]

Honestly, I would prefer "Primaris Tactical Marines/Tactical Intercessors" to be a different unit from normal Intercessors, trading Bolter Power for Special Weapon flexibility while leaving the normal Intercessors as the "basic bolter" unit.

 

That doesn't mean I would oppose an Intercessor kit which had more customisation and had more Sargent options on the sprue instead of the now cosmetic Bolt Rifle magazines, as long as the kit isn't inundated with helmetless heads.

We have enough universally usable helmetless Marine heads, give us more helmet options for the people who don't like painting faces.

[Alby the Slayer]

It's been 4 days @IronHandsPraetor_Rumors, Frater.

 

Your headless Primarch is rolling his leadless body in its grave because of your failure.

 

If your very very secret server is after you, just post the picture, and to the warp with the consequences!

 

You will go in blaze of glory just like Ferrus did, but maybe in a more useful gesture.

 

I will remember you. 

 

Edited Monday at 04:49 PM by Alby the Slayer

[Ace Debonair]

People, please, let's at least get the priorities right.

The legs on the current Intercessors kit come in like four hundred pieces each. 

 

That can be pared down to one or two, without the needlessly detached shin pads and stuff, and that'll give plenty of sprue space for new Sergeant/Special/Other options before we cannibalise the visual customisation for the Bolt Rifles (which still have different rules for each in Kill Team, for what it's worth). 

 

...Although if the Auto and Stalker Bolt Rifles become actual special weapons (less of them per squad but with bonuses or something) that might be pretty cool too. 

[Indy Techwisp]

17 minutes ago, Ace Debonair said:

People, please, let's at least get the priorities right.

The legs on the current Intercessors kit come in like four hundred pieces each. 

 

That can be pared down to one or two, without the needlessly detached shin pads and stuff, and that'll give plenty of sprue space for new Sergeant/Special/Other options before we cannibalise the visual customisation for the Bolt Rifles (which still have different rules for each in Kill Team, for what it's worth). 

 

...Although if the Auto and Stalker Bolt Rifles become actual special weapons (less of them per squad but with bonuses or something) that might be pretty cool too. 

 

As long as the kit still has the different Boltrifles in it (as single parts rather than multiple) then it's A-OK for Killteam still. The Boltrifle with GL can retain the magazine options tho, but there's only 1 of each mag to go with it.

 

As for the Shinpads, they need to still be a seperate bit so we can have different shinpad options.

[Moonstalker]

5 hours ago, Alby the Slayer said:

It's been 4 days @IronHandsPraetor_Rumors, Frater.

 

Your headless Primarch is rolling his leadless body in its grave because of your failure.

 

If your very very secret server is after you, just post the picture, and to the warp with the consequences!

 

You will go in blaze of glory just like Ferrus did, but maybe in a more useful gesture.

 

I will remember you. 

 

 

When he replied to my post showing him how to attach an image and there was no image attached, I pretty much immediately round-filed this "rumor."  I think we all know the Intercessor and Hellblaster kits could get a redo that improves the use of their sprue real estate (such as adding a special/heavy weapon option to the Intercessors, or - my personal expectation - combining the Infernus marines and Hellblasters into one kit).  GW will probably do something like that in the future.  They need some kind of basic infantry unit to stuff in the 11th ed starter any way you cut it.  But without evidence, all I've really seen this thread do is :cuss:-stir and provide an opportunity for another rehash of all the Primaris vs Firstborn bellyaching.

 

28 minutes ago, Ace Debonair said:

People, please, let's at least get the priorities right.

The legs on the current Intercessors kit come in like four hundred pieces each. 

 

That can be pared down to one or two, without the needlessly detached shin pads and stuff, and that'll give plenty of sprue space for new Sergeant/Special/Other options before we cannibalise the visual customisation for the Bolt Rifles (which still have different rules for each in Kill Team, for what it's worth). 

 

...Although if the Auto and Stalker Bolt Rifles become actual special weapons (less of them per squad but with bonuses or something) that might be pretty cool too. 

 

I'll disagree with you over the detached shin pads.

 

1. They significantly reduce mold line issues and cleanup (the line on the front of the leg and knee is hidden under the shin plate anyway, and the shins have their mold line around the outside edge where it's easily cleaned and not very noticeable) while allowing for more varied leg poses (avoiding an undercut that would trap the part in the mold with the lip of the shin guard would limit potential leg poses, or you get things like in the push-fit kits where those edges get rounded over and detail is lost).

 

2. They allow for pseudo-armor-mark-diversity.  The legs in like the new Blood Claw kit are still Mk X when you look at the ankle, the hip, etc, but the different kneepads for emulating the earlier marks are swapped shin parts.

 

3. They provide an opportunity for third party bits makers to offer chapter-specific customization bits.  I've seen this more with the detached shin plates on terminators, but it can be there for tacticus models, too.

[MoriyaSchism]

33 minutes ago, Moonstalker said:

1. They significantly reduce mold line issues and cleanup (the line on the front of the leg and knee is hidden under the shin plate anyway, and the shins have their mold line around the outside edge where it's easily cleaned and not very noticeable) while allowing for more varied leg poses (avoiding an undercut that would trap the part in the mold with the lip of the shin guard would limit potential leg poses, or you get things like in the push-fit kits where those edges get rounded over and detail is lost).

 

Came here to say this. I want to add that the kits that have legs as just two pieces are worse in terms of detail and shape. Compare the assault intercessor and hellblaster legs to regular intercessor legs. You'll see what I mean. 

Edited Monday at 09:27 PM by MoriyaSchism

[Blindhamster]

also going to echo a desire for the shins to be separate on more/all kits. Every time they're separate, the end result is better for the model with fewer moldlines. And as others said it creates opportunities for cross compatibilty between kits (even if it requires just a little cutting on your part at times. 
 

e.g. blood angel shins plus Templar legs

 

Edited Monday at 11:06 PM by Blindhamster

[crimsondave]

10 hours ago, phandaal said:

 

100%. Armor variety helps with this as well. Not every Tactical Marine is going to be carrying something special, but you still get to make choices with the chest piece, helmet, shoulder pads, legs etc. To me that felt like a big step up from the even older monopose plastic guys.

 

I did like Mk X at first when it was shiny and new, but after a while seeing it with all the exact same setups (chest: gorget, legs: knee pads + rims, helmet: Mk X) does make it feel more bland.

 

I agree.  I like Mk X still but I'd spend good money on true scale Mk 7.  I've already bought HH Mk 2, 3, and 6 for 40k.  I'd like updated Mk 4 and 5 too.  The more options the better for me.

[HeadlessCross]

18 hours ago, Mogger351 said:

I mean you just suggested intercessors should have 6 (2 grenade launchers, 1 special, 1 heavy, Sgt pistol and bolt rifles).

That's the case if you're trying to make every single weapon different, like when GW's design team said that your Devastator Squads should take 4 different heavy weapons so you can attack any target. 

 

Also why are you attacking a target with 1 Krak grenade and 1 Frag grenade?

[Blindhamster]

intercessors are a rifleman squad.

 

rifleman squads irl usually have

 

rifles. - bolt rifles 

grenade launcher(s) - aux grenade launchers

marksman rifle - NA atm

light machine gun - NA atm

sometimes a lighter weight anti tank weapon, often shorter range- NA atm

sidearms - bolt pistols

CCW - ccws 

grenades - grenade keyword

 

 

so I stand by the idea that with bolt rifles becoming generic, we ought to see the unit get access to a single bolt sniper rifle or have stalker bolt rifle return with an updated profile for one model. Plus then a rocket launcher or heavy bolter.

 

Sergeant - better melee weapon, keeps bolt rifle, or swaps it for a better sidearm

gunner - heavy bolter or rocket launcher

marksman - bolt sniper rifle 

support - 2x grenade launcher

riflemen - 5x bolt rifles 

 

make the grenade launcher 1/5 and make the heavy and sniper 1/5 but max of 1 each.

 

theme wise it fits, it’s like a neat upgrade loadout wise from scouts, drawing parallels still which makes sense from the marine training perspective 

 

 

[Indy Techwisp]

58 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

intercessors are a rifleman squad.

 

rifleman squads irl usually have

 

rifles. - bolt rifles 

grenade launcher(s) - aux grenade launchers

marksman rifle - NA atm

light machine gun - NA atm

sometimes a lighter weight anti tank weapon, often shorter range- NA atm

sidearms - bolt pistols

CCW - ccws 

grenades - grenade keyword

 

 

so I stand by the idea that with bolt rifles becoming generic, we ought to see the unit get access to a single bolt sniper rifle or have stalker bolt rifle return with an updated profile for one model. Plus then a rocket launcher or heavy bolter.

 

Sergeant - better melee weapon, keeps bolt rifle, or swaps it for a better sidearm

gunner - heavy bolter or rocket launcher

marksman - bolt sniper rifle 

support - 2x grenade launcher

riflemen - 5x bolt rifles 

 

make the grenade launcher 1/5 and make the heavy and sniper 1/5 but max of 1 each.

 

theme wise it fits, it’s like a neat upgrade loadout wise from scouts, drawing parallels still which makes sense from the marine training perspective 

 

 

 

I gotta say that sounds like the definition of an American Rifle Squad, which iirc differs quite a bit from how UK Squads are equipped (an important distinction to make considering GW is an English company).

 

IMO I think if the standard Intercessors need another Weapon option at all it should be a Shotgun and they should all be able to take it (even the GL Marine).

We need a proper "full Marine scale" Shotgun unit now that Deathwatch have lost theirs and can't call for exclusively anymore.

[Robbienw]

Current british army section has section commander, 2nd in command and 2 soldiers  with rifles, 2 soldiers with rifles with grenade launchers, 1 soldier with sharpshooter rifle, and one soldier with a GPMG.  A section will usually carry NLAW anti tank launchers as well.

[Orange Knight]

1 hour ago, Robbienw said:

Current british army section has section commander, 2nd in command and 2 soldiers  with rifles, 2 soldiers with rifles with grenade launchers, 1 soldier with sharpshooter rifle, and one soldier with a GPMG.  A section will usually carry NLAW anti tank launchers as well.

 

Problem is, this doesn't sound fun to roll for in a game.

I have 6 guys, and I need to make 4 sets of rolls for the basic shooting attacks which nets me a few kills on light infantry models at best?

[Beef]

for me the introduction of the primaris marines through the indominus crusade felt like a step forward in terms of storyline progression. so for me certain chapters like the ultra marines and more codex compliant chapters would not integrate older marks of armour with primaris plate. Space Wolves are an exception as has been stated earliar as they do mix and match. A vambrace might have belonged to a might hero and has been passed down to a new Blood Claw. Whilst the original helmets look good MK6/7 i remember in those days the current primaris helmet would have made me drool. The only reason i am not is because all the older marks seem to have disappeared so it feels more like we prefer the older marks as its stirs nostalgia. one squad of my new primaris grey hunters all have mk6/7 helmets. I even bought a mk6 HH tactical squad to turn into grey hunters to sort my nostalgia fix. The whole point of the Primaris range fluff wise was to go back to the vast rank and file look of pre heresy era legions. functional suits of armour. Yes i agree not grimdark but more true to advancing technology.

[Mogger351]

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

 

Problem is, this doesn't sound fun to roll for in a game.

I have 6 guys, and I need to make 4 sets of rolls for the basic shooting attacks which nets me a few kills on light infantry models at best?

Agree, I'm happy for the lodouts to stay as they are, but the 40 shots to even begin to be considered is a sign of poor game state. 2 shots per rifle should be adequate.

[Orange Knight]

7 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Agree, I'm happy for the lodouts to stay as they are, but the 40 shots to even begin to be considered is a sign of poor game state. 2 shots per rifle should be adequate.

 

You won't get any disagreements from me about the shortcomings of the current edition.

[Karhedron]

1 hour ago, Mogger351 said:

Agree, I'm happy for the lodouts to stay as they are, but the 40 shots to even begin to be considered is a sign of poor game state. 2 shots per rifle should be adequate.

 

GW consistently overprice generalists compared to specialists. Even if the generalists are quite mediocre overwise. Without the firepower boost I think Intercessors are worth closer to 60 points than 80 but that then screws up GW's arithmetic for cheaper infantry.

[Mogger351]

2 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

GW consistently overprice generalists compared to specialists. Even if the generalists are quite mediocre overwise. Without the firepower boost I think Intercessors are worth closer to 60 points than 80 but that then screws up GW's arithmetic for cheaper infantry.

Again, it's a symptom of poor game state. There's obviously a lethality/defense issue at play that means their profile isn't worth what it should be. If you compare them to a unit of say kroot, who are t3 1w 6+ with a notably worse gun but stealth and scout for 65 pts, it's hard to say there isn't a bigger problem that 10 wet paper towers that move up t1 is so much more valuable than a block of 20 t4 3+ wounds with s4 ap-1 guns with assault and heavy.

[Brother Paint]

So, no images yet?