Great Crusade Great Crusade arms & armaments

[Pacific81]

Hi folks. I'm putting together some of the MKII kits as an early-mid Great Crusade-era force but think I am a bit out of touch on the latest background on what was heavily in use (or what was not) during the Crusade. I did think Saturnine would be the Terminator armour of choice for example, especially for early crusade as the fluff always used to be the early ones were high pressure/reactor suits from the Saturnine fleets adapted for war - however now are they much later, pre-heresy as they were used by Vulkan and the Salamanders at Istvaan? (Although presumably didn't help them much!)

 

I'm compiling a list below of ins/outs, very grateful if anyone has any useful info they can add! Or to correct what I have entered already. 

 

Ins:

- Volkite weaponry

- Plasma weaponry

- 'Hover' vehicles (jet bikes, land speeders etc.)

 

Outs:

- MKV & MKVI armour. (I know technically 'pre-heresy', but would be very late Crusade). 

- Inductii. These programmes were generally initiated as a result of the civil war.

Edited December 12, 2025 by Pacific81

[SvenIronhand]

Can't go wrong with bolters.

[No Foes Remain]

I started on a similar thread a few years ago, but I never got anywhere further with it since with more releases there seemed to be less about when such equipment was made. I found most of this through just trawling the Black Books for lore tidbits.

[Pacific81]

Thank you so much for that, @No Foes Remain that is exactly what I was searching for!

 

I am not sure that much has been updated since then? Only thing I have spotted is that the Kratos is now known to be early/mid Crusade especially.

And Saturnine armour has now had a lot more detail added: was a conquest of Sol/early Crusade thing, dropped out of use due to maintenance requirements, then Vulkan brought back a Deluxe version in time for the new Istvaan boxset.

[Doghouse]

I know Vindicators and Sabres were originally a Heresy invention but I think are now late Great Crusade, Mk IV originally came into use I think about forty years before the Heresy based on The Last Heretic. 

 

As I remember it:

 

Rhino APC Deimos pattern - Late Unification Wars to very early Great Crusade - Horus Heresy Book One: Betrayal

 

Land Raider Proteus - Late Unification Wars transitioning into early Great Crusade - Horus Heresy Book Two: Massacre/Horus Heresy Book Five: Tempest

 

Predator Destructor - Early Great Crusade once armoured formations scaled up - Horus Heresy Book One: Betrayal/Horus Heresy Book Two: Massacre

 

Predator Annihilator - Mid Great Crusade as anti armour needs increased - Horus Heresy Book Five: Tempest/Horus Heresy Book Six: Retribution

 

Vindicator - Last Great Crusade - Horus Heresy Book One Betrayal/Horus Heresy Book Five Tempest

 

Sabre: Late Great Crusade - Horus Heresy Book Two Massacre/Horus Heresy Book Six Retribution

 

Sicaran Battle Tank - Mid to late Great Crusade - Horus Heresy Book Two: Massacre/Horus Heresy Book Six: Retribution

 

Whirlwind Scorpius - Early Great Crusade with limited distribution - Horus Heresy Book One: Betrayal/Horus Heresy Book Two: Massacre

 

Contemptor Dreadnought - Late Unification Wars through entire Great Crusade - Horus Heresy Book One: Betrayal/Horus Heresy Book Two: Massacre/Horus Heresy Book Five: Tempest

 

Leviathan Dreadnought -Mid to late Great Crusade - Horus Heresy Book Two: Massacre/Horus Heresy Book Five: Tempest/Horus Heresy Book Six: Retribution

 

Deredeo Dreadnought - Mid Great Crusade onward - Horus Heresy Book Six: Retribution/Horus Heresy Book Six: Retribution

 

Stormbird Assault Lander - Late Unification Wars and early Great Crusade - Horus Heresy Book One: Betrayal/Horus Heresy Book Two: Massacre

 

Thunderhawk Gunship - Early to mid Great Crusade as rapid deployment doctrine matured - Horus Heresy Book One: Betrayal/Horus Heresy Book Five: Tempest

 

Fire Raptor - Late Great Crusade - Horus Heresy Book Six: Retribution/Horus Heresy Book Eight: Malevolence

 

Fellblade Super heavy -Mid Great Crusade with Legion level logistics - Horus Heresy Book Two: Massacre/Horus Heresy Book Five: Tempest

 

Glaive and Falchion variants - Late Great Crusade and rare even then - Horus Heresy Book Five: Tempest/Horus Heresy Book Six: Retribution

 

Rapier: Late Unification to early Great Crusade. - Horus Heresy Book One: Betrayal

[Pacific81]

Thank you Doghouse. I love that we are still having a similar conversation as once did 16-17 years ago on the old Great Crusade forum! Its amazing how much has been padded out nowadays with official sources, although so much Crusade-era is still the odd (sometimes contradictory) snippet here and there.

[Doghouse]

Yeah the good old days of trawling through novels and old rules books like Imperial archivists for the tiniest snippet of lore and then talking about it for hours and deciding what models we'd convert.

 

Good times. 

[Pacific81]

We should organise a Great Crusade re-union! Will be interesting who is still about playing Heresy. I would dare say a fair few.

 

Although not invite the chap that deleted the image I had posted in the discussion thread about fortifications of Terra, of Bowser's castle from NES Mario, as it was deemed "not constructive in the discussion relating to the construction of the defences" (and then tried to give me a warning, despite me also being a Mod!  ) Ah, good times..

 

I did also get told by someone that one of the regulars, Whitehorn, had passed away, only for us to then share messages a few years later! Which was a bit of a shock, to say the least.

Edited December 19, 2025 by Pacific81

[Doghouse]

Yeah certainly seems like a lifetime ago, I can only really remember you, Ed (Apologist) and Laurie off the top of my head. Whitehorn rings a bell though.

[roryokane]

On 12/12/2025 at 9:18 AM, Pacific81 said:

Hi folks. I'm putting together some of the MKII kits as an early-mid Great Crusade-era force but think I am a bit out of touch on the latest background on what was heavily in use (or what was not) during the Crusade. I did think Saturnine would be the Terminator armour of choice for example, especially for early crusade as the fluff always used to be the early ones were high pressure/reactor suits from the Saturnine fleets adapted for war - however now are they much later, pre-heresy as they were used by Vulkan and the Salamanders at Istvaan? (Although presumably didn't help them much!)

 

I'm compiling a list below of ins/outs, very grateful if anyone has any useful info they can add! Or to correct what I have entered already. 

 

Ins:

- Volkite weaponry

- Plasma weaponry

- 'Hover' vehicles (jet bikes, land speeders etc.)

 

Outs:

- MKV & MKVI armour. (I know technically 'pre-heresy', but would be very late Crusade). 

- Inductii. These programmes were generally initiated as a result of the civil war.

I think Phobos pattern bolters for the most part, since the Tigrus is usually paired with MK IV armour kits and the Umbra with MK VI, whereas Phobos bolters are usually seen paired with Mk II and III kits, which seems to suggest earlier production (also Phobos is a moon of Mars, so part of the Imperium from before the Solar Reclamation was complete, so being part of earlier production makes sense, when compared to the more distant forge world of Tigrus, and I think the Umbra/Umbra Ferrox pattern were explicitly a late crusade/heresy era boltgun).

[calgar101]

Threads like this are so great and helpful. 

[lokkorex]

I thought Bolters went Phobos->Umbra->Tigrus?

 

And wasn't Umbra at first paired with Mk.2 and Phobos with Mk.3 in the Forge World resin sets?

 

EDIT: My bad, all pictures I found that both the Mk.2 and Mk.3 sets were paired with Phobos Bolt weapons.

Edited December 29, 2025 by lokkorex

[Uprising]

Not wanting to start a new thread as this relate to this topic, when did the Mars pattern Rhino (and other mars vehicles) start production, and when did the Rhino APC Deimos pattern start getting replace?  

[Jamafore]

From what I remember, it was stated that the Mars pattern Rhino chassis vehicles were available late Crusade/ Heresy era, though that might also be a concession due to the fact that the Deimos pattern used to be FW only availability while the Mars pattern, being plastic, was readily available. Not sure about when the Deimos pattern started being phased out

[calgar101]

Aside from aesthetics, how different are a Deimos and Mars pattern vehicle? Are Demios chasis far superior? 

[roryokane]

On 1/1/2026 at 9:00 PM, calgar101 said:

Aside from aesthetics, how different are a Deimos and Mars pattern vehicle? Are Demios chasis far superior? 

I don’t think there’s ever been any specific sources comparing the two.

[calgar101]

Yeah I haven't read anything saying that but I assumed Mars patterns may be slightly inferior as they're easier to produce or because they're massed produced?

Quite a few variants of tanks from several Forge worlds, it would be interesting to see what differences other than aesthetics they have.

[roryokane]

On 1/4/2026 at 10:26 PM, calgar101 said:

Yeah I haven't read anything saying that but I assumed Mars patterns may be slightly inferior as they're easier to produce or because they're massed produced?

Quite a few variants of tanks from several Forge worlds, it would be interesting to see what differences other than aesthetics they have.

The Deimos pattern was hardly artisanal!

[calgar101]

Well no but was there anything inherently better in a Deimos pattern than a Mars or Ryza etc?

[roryokane]

On 1/6/2026 at 11:48 PM, calgar101 said:

Well no but was there anything inherently better in a Deimos pattern than a Mars or Ryza etc?

I don't think there's any fluff that explicitly spells that out for the Rhino chassis and its derivatives, I'm afraid!

Edited January 11 by roryokane

[calgar101]

1 hour ago, roryokane said:

I don't think there's any fluff that explicitly spells that out for the Rhino chassis and its derivatives, I'm afraid!

Will have to do some digging!

[apologist]

On the specifics of benefits of each Rhino pattern, there's quite a bit of info scattered around the various Imperial Armour books.

 

I can't vouch to its accuracy, but this link has the feel of a copy-and-paste from such books, and it notes:  

 

The Deimos Pattern Rhino was the most common Rhino pattern in use during the Great Crusade and Horus Heresy in the late 30th and early 31st Millennia, and served as the transport of choice for the Space Marine Legions, the Legio Custodes, the Sisters of Silence, the ancient Mechanicum, and in limited numbers by the regiments of the Imperial Army.

 

The Deimos Pattern Rhino would eventually be replaced by newer marks and patterns, and it is no longer produced by the Adeptus Mechanicus. The Mars Pattern Rhino has become the standard Rhino used at present by the Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes, although some Chapters still maintain the use of relic Deimos Rhinos out of respect and tradition.

 

It's all rather complicated by the mixed up timelines introduced by the real-world/in-universe releases of 40k/30k! In case it helps your research, the current 30k plastic Deimos pattern Rhino is the 1c; while the current 40k Rhino and its various iterations are Mars pattern. This was released as the 'Rhino IIc' in 2022 (around WD issue 267/268), as this battered ebay box shows:

 

(Absolutely killer art, by the way! Wish boxes still looked like this.)

+++

 

The current background suggests that the Deimos pattern STC was lost (or otherwise compromised), presumably by the Martian Loss of Innocence and the events of the Heresy, but this is (I believe) not made explicit. It is for this reason, in-universe, that the Mars pattern one was dominant from M31–41.

 

As for which is better, the link above gives the following info. If you're happy to accept it as accurately taken from the sources linked, you can compare the two. Mars on the left, Deimos right: 

 

  

 

Unfortunately for the discussion, you can see all the listed data are identical!

 

+++

 

Not directly related to the Deimos/Mars pattern question, but something that might add to the discussion (or just be of historical interest!); this is how the Rhino was introduced in White Dwarf issue 103: 

During the Dark Age of Technology man's conquest of the stars relied on the impetus of the Standard Template Construct system. These complex analytical and processing systems enabled the colonists to fabricate their basic needs from locally available materials. Although none of these systems are known to function today, many designs derived from them survive as a tribute to humanity's pioneering past. Cultural changes, fashion and subsequent development have modified the shapes and styles of STC blueprints, but basic designs are still recognisable in many utilitarian devices of the forty-first millennium. On some worlds items are religiously copied and various social constraints exist to prevent change.

 

One legacy of the STC is the ubiquitous armoured carrier RH1 N0 Tracked Exploration and Multi-defence – a vehicle designed for action in hostile environments, known as the Rhino. The vehicle is primarily seen in the service of Imperial forces, but Orkish varients [sic] are not uncommon. These are salvaged from the wreck of battle, and may be extremely ancient. Some Ork Warlords have developed their own – usually inferior – copies.


The basic design of the Rhino has remained unchanged for over ten thousand years. Its shell is made from almost any material, the fittings can be varied by the designer. Some uniformity of fittings and materials has become traditional amongst the Imperial Guard – the space army of the lmperium. However, examples made from all sorts of materials, can be found on remote planets. The profile given is for an Imperial Guard or Marine vehicle built from conventional materials.

 

The Rhino has seen action in a wide range of operational theatres. This has led to great diversity in camouflage schemes employed, even though Imperial regulations – as laid down in the Codex Imperialis – are strictly followed by the Tech Priests of the Adeptus Mechanicus at the time of construction.

 

Once a vehicle is accepted by an Imperial force, colour scheme reflects its operational role, and camouflage patterns take account of climate, terrain and vegetation. Occasionally, a Marine Chapter will simply use its own associated colours. In special cases, particularly bright and garish schemes are used to wage psychological warfare on the superstitious natives of medieval or feral worlds. Ork schemes are predominantly red, following the well-known adage of Orkish 'Know-wot', "Red unz go fasta!"


It is a testament to the foresight of the STC architects that the Rhino design has proved such a long lasting one. Part of this longevity is due to the major tenet of the STC system – universality. STCs can be made out of just about anything, and they can be made extremely quickly. For example, during the Badab wars, the rebel Tiger Claws chapter suffered early losses of equipment when transports were lost to the warp. To offset the ensuing deficiencies, an emergency building program was instituted, producing thousands of Rhino variants. As the Badab constructors were hounded from production facility to production facility by the advancing enemy forces, they were reduced to using locally available materials, including moulded plastics, compressed organic material and eventually
even plywood.

 

Vehicles constructed under these desperate circumstances later took part in the Colon Salient suicide counter-attack, when a squadron of Rhinos broke through to the Fire Angels' lines and detonated a viral missile, causing more casualties in a single day than the Fire Angels had suffered in the war up to that point.

 

GW's background often nods to the real world – the tongue-in-cheek reference to plastic, cardboard (compressed organic material) and plywood above are a case in point – and this continues to the present day. Unsurprising, as the Specialist Games team often show that they're holding a flame for the old days!

 

[calgar101]

Thank you for that detailed reply @apologist, it is much appreciated. I saw a brief comment on a Subreddit, saying how the Deimos had some 'more advanced' parts/features but the difference between a Deimos and a Mars pattern's performance was negligible. 

My own head cannon was that the Deimos pattern may be ever so slightly (like %) more fuel efficient and some other minor benefits, but this leads to slower production times compared to the Mars. I guess it's an aesthetic difference not a performance/capability on. 

 

[Xenith]

I recall Deimos being more high tech and with more advanced systems than the Mars, but with the associated issues with repair and spare parts - same as the issues with the tiger tank - technically better but lost the logistical battle.

 

In terms of pre-heresy/pre-crusade tech, we're looking at big heavy tanks that were in service before the marines arrived and refined their lightning assault. The kratos is specifically called out as being a precrusade model pressed into service, I'd assume the mastadon and fellblade chassis will be also (though not the falchion). Armour wise you're looking at MK2+3, and cataphractii, then maybe some pared back saturnine? This was only perfected by vulkan and deployed at Isstvan, I believe the new fluff goes. 

 

In terms of weapons, power mauls, axes and fists. Swords used to be too refined and hard to make, and we're a rarer sight. We also have the solarite power gauntlet which I imagine was in service. Bolters were ubiquitous, and I believe thunder warriors were armed with them. 

 

Wed also see war crimes weapons that were used on the terran tribes before they were given to the dark angels for safekeeping.

[calgar101]

That is a great analogy with the Tiger tank. Thank you for that Xenith. It would be interesting to see what weapons the Dark Angels had, and still have.