=][= TAGS BEING UPDATED =][=

[Brother Tyler]

Our tags system is in a transitional period. Prior to this, we have allowed freeform tags - members could basically type in whatever they wanted for their tags. We have had the option to limit tags, but I didn't want to do that. Freeform tags will no longer be an option when we upgrade to Invision 5.0, however, so we're leaning forward and building our tag list.

 

Ultimately, tags are one element of our content discovery. Most people probably just look at them and see what tag(s) members have assigned to their content. Some of you may have figured out that you can click on a tag and the software will then perform a search, returning all results for content that shares the clicked tag. For tags to be truly useful, then, there needs to be some level of consistency. Freeform tags don't guarantee consistency and we would often see different spellings, abbreviations, etc. for the same concept. For example, content about Space Marines might have a variety of tags assigned, such as Space Marines or Adeptus Astartes, and you can imagine how some members might capitalize and others might not. We might even see tags like space, Marines, Adeptus, Astartes, etc. assigned instead, leading to confusion. For example, would the tag space refer to Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, [outer] space, or some other subject that uses "space" in its name? And then there are the terms that have multiple meanings. A good example of this is Horus Heresy. That term might refer to the actual event, to the setting, to the current tabletop miniature wargame or one of its preceding editions, to the original wargame, to the revised game that Fantasy Flight Games published, to the collectible card game, to the series of books, etc. It has been clear for quite some time that we needed to standardize things, and I've been trying to do that without being overly limiting or oppressive. This involved coming up with guidelines for entering tags, though that would still allow for extensive tagging options. With the upcoming change in Invision 5.0, however, our hand is forced.

 

My original plan was to simply standardize the schema I had been developing. After working through it, however, I realized that would be unworkable. The way the defined tags work is that members are allowed to choose from a list of tags. If we have a list of tags as extensive as the one I originally envisioned, or even a list one-tenth the size that I envisioned, it would rapidly become unusable and tags would become pointless. Moreover, we would be continuously updating the list as GW publishes new games, new editions of games, new (sub)factions, etc.

 

So I had to consider tags as part of an overarching system for content architecture and content discovery. Tags work within an ecosystem that also includes content titles, content descriptions, content types (e.g., discussions, images, articles, etc.), and content location within features (i.e., the categories and subcategories of the respective features, as well as the forums and subforums within the Forums feature). While clicking on a tag will activate a simple use of the search engine, members can perform more advanced searches that include tags, content titles, content types, content authors, etc. Understanding that, I realized that the list of tags could be much smaller. More importantly, tags don't need to duplicate data that can (and should) be captured in those other elements. For example, we don't need a Dark Angels Chapter tag because members can simply enter "Dark Angels" into the search engine to find content related to that Legion/Chapter.

 

Instead of entering any tags you want into a cell, you'll be presented with a drop-down list of the available tags, allowing you to select one or more. You don't have to select any, however. You will see staff members edit tag assignments, however. So if you select one of the tags that is intended for staff usage, we'll probably delete it. We'll add/delete tags to improve content discovery and remove/reduce confusion.

 

The current list is transitional. I am certain that it will be expanded (I have at least three additions in mind as I compose this). For now, the tags available to you are:

• Banner of the Month
• battle report
• community challenge
• force composition
• MUD
• product review
• resource index
• rule question
• rumor
• site announcement
• strategy and tactics

Banner of the Month is one that might disappear. I use that in my [usually] monthly topics about the Banner of the Month and having a tag is very handy. I might force myself to just search for the text string in the content title.

 

battle report is fairly obvious in its meaning. Theoretically, battle reports can be located in the various forums of the ++ STRATEGIUM: RULES AND GAME PLAY ++ category (e.g., a Necromunda battle report would be posted in the + NECROMUNDA + forum, an Aeuronautica Imperialis battle report would be posted in the + EPIC SCALE HORUS HERESY GAMES + forum, a Space Hulk battle report would be posted in the + OTHER GAMES + forum, etc.). However, hobbyists often post their battle reports in the (sub)forums dedicated to the participating (sub)factions. For example, a Warhammer 40,000 battle report featuring the Ultramarines versus Orks might be posted in the + ULTRAMARINES + forum, the + ORKS + forum, or both. Truth be told, the method I prefer is that members create their own blogs and post their battle reports in their blogs, then post outreach topics in the appropriate (sub)forums to draw eyes to those blog entries. We're not going to be heavy-handed here, giving hobbyists the freedom to choose whatever they prefer. Regardless, assigning the battle report tag to all such content will allow members to find it wherever it is.

 

community challenge refers to any of the various contests and challenges that we conduct here, such as the 12 Months of Hobby Challenge 2026 (conducted via the Clubs), the Bunker Bingo 2026 Challenge! (also conducted via the Clubs), and the recent Legio Roll of Honour challenge (conducted via the Forums). This tag can also be used for external contests and challenges.

 

force composition is what we would normally think of as an army list. However, different games have different names for this concept. In Battlefleet Gothic, for example, one uses a fleet registry. A more generalized name makes it usable for any of the various games covered here.

 

MUD is a tag used by the staff (it definitely doesn't mean "Malcador unceremoniously died" ).

 

product review would be used for any type of review of a product such as a miniature, a boxed set, a book, etc.

 

resource index is a tag used by the staff to identify both the resource index topics that appear at the top of many (sub)forums as well as the topics that are linked from those resource topics. We use the resource topics to minimize the number of pinned topics, allowing members to get to the more current topics without having to scroll through dozens or more pinned topics. The topics linked within retain top-of-the-forum visibility and quick accessibility via the links in the resource topics, and the tags help us to readily know when they are in those indices (so we can unarchive them, when necessary).

 

rule question would be used for any discussion in which a member has a question about a rule. Ideally, each discussion will be limited to a single rule and the topic title would include the rule name (where practical), allowing members to (a) focus discussion on that rule, and (b) recognize which rule is being discussed at a glance. There may be times when the interaction between two or more rules is an issue, allowing the interactions between those rules to be discussed in the same topic.

 

rumor should be used for any bonafide rumor (not speculation), including the Rumour Engine (and it's occasional thematic alternative names) that Games Workshop presents at Warhammer Community.

 

site announcement is another tag used by the staff to identify topics like this one, announcing some change or update to the site.

 

strategy and tactics is the tag used for discussions about strategy and tactics on the tabletop (not army/force composition).

 

We're not going to have tags for characters (e.g., Roboute Guilliman, Eldrad Ulthran, etc.), nor are we going to have tags for (sub)factions/organizations (e.g., Ultramarines, Red Corsairs, Legio Furibundus). Similarly, we won't have tags for Black Library authors. We won't have tags for units (e.g., Vindicators, Intercessors, etc.). We're not going to have tags for images, articles, downloads, blogs, etc. since those are content types that are easily selectable in the search engine. And we definitely won't have tags for members (a lot of members have done this in the past, and it made perfect sense at the time).

 

We will almost certainly expand this list. For example, I can see tags identifying that content is about a DIY/homegrown organization as well as tags to identify models, terrain, and gaming boards (or something like that).

 

If you have suggestions, feel free to post them here.

[Teetengee]

I mostly use tags to show factions on uploads to the gallery, so I find subfaction tags very useful, as I might want to search the gallery for inspiration related to those army paintjobs/conversions. I'd be open to other ways of tagging that, but I feel like nothing except community challenge would be useful for gallery uploads, and also wouldn't really help my searching.

[Brother Tyler]

Tags for (sub)factions were definitely considered, but those, more than anything, would make the system unwieldy or unfair if included.

 

To walk the dog...

 

The original concept included tags for every official faction and subfaction. So that would include Adeptus Astartes, each of the Legions (e.g., Blood Angels Legion, Thousand Sons Legion, etc.), and each of the Chapters (e.g., Blood Angels Chapter, Blood Ravens Chapter, etc.). The last time I counted (here) there were 343 official named Chapters. That count didn't include the official named Heretic Astartes Legions/Warbands, which would increase the number considerably. If you then included similar tags for the other (sub)factions (e.g., Adepta Sororitas, Order of the Argent Shroud, Order of the Ermine Mantle, Aeldari, Asuryani, Iyanden, Ulthwé, Astra Militarum, Cadia, Vostroya, etc.) the number more than doubles. And then you have to factor in (sub)factions with multiple names. For example, would we include "Space Marines" and "Adeptus Astartes" and "Legiones Astartes" as tags? Or would we reduce it down from there? Similarly, would we include both "Space Sharks Chapter" and "Carcharodons Astra Chapter" as tags? How about "Vylka Fenryka" and "Space Wolves Chapter" as tags? And then we get into characters. The list of official characters keeps growing and growing, especially as Black Library pumps out new works of fiction. In addition, characters might often go by multiple names, or might have commonly associated names and more complete full names. If a hobbyist doesn't know the full name, they might not find it on the list when they're looking for one of the more common shortened versions. And then there are many cases where the same name/word might apply to multiple things. For example, there are tanks named for the Primarchs Rogal Dorn and Leman Russ, as well as for Malcador the Sigilite. Even if we didn't include tags for the vehicles, some hobbyists might assign simply named tags (e.g., "Rogal Dorn") to content about the tank instead of the Primarch. The solution, then, would be to further complicate the tag list by having tags such as "Rogal Dorn tank" and "Rogal Dorn Primarch" (or the reverse of one/both) to ensure clarity, further increasing the size and complexity of the list. Ultimately, trying to get an expansive tag list would have resulted in a wholly unusable drop-down list.

 

I then considered creating cutoff criteria. Perhaps we would only have tags for higher level subjects. for example, we might have "Ultramarines Legion" and "Ultramarines Successor" tags (the former would cover the Great Crusade/Horus Heresy era Legion and the latter would cover all the Chapters descended from that Legion, including the Ultramarines Chapter). Any Chapter whose lineage was unknown, then, would simply use the "Adeptus Astartes" tag (except the Deathwatch and the Grey Knights, of course, who would both have tags). A similar methodology might be used to limit the other (sub)factions. Characters could similarly be limited, but there would surely be debate about who qualifies as being important enough to have a tag and who doesn't. Again, though, we would have a tag list that exceeded 100 entries. Anyone here who has had to scroll down an extensive drop-down list knows what a PITA that is, and if you wanted to assign multiple tags you would have to search through that list each time (it would be in alphabetical order, or course).

 

And then we have other things for which tags are extremely useful in content discovery. I use them extensively for a variety of projects, contests, challenges, etc., as do some of the other moderati and members. Everyone has their preferences and trying to accommodate all of those preferences would again result in an excessively long tag list; and it would be likely that we would have to constantly update (i.e., extend) the tag list as more things happen.

 

Ultimately, having an excessively long tag list degrades the user experience, leading to an environment where people don't want to use the tags because finding the ones they want is so onerous. The goal is to have a tag list that is long and complete enough that it remains usable while helping members with content discovery.

 

It also has to be remembered that tags work in conjunction with other elements of the content architecture. We have numerous categories and subcategories to also help with top level content discovery. So if you want to see images about the Necrons, you simply have to search through the Necrons category. There are similar Gallery categories for each of the factions, and subcategories for the major Adeptus/Heretic Astartes subfactions. The Blogs and Forum features, too, have similar (sub)categories. And two other important elements that are usable in content discovery are titles and descriptions. Even in cases where features don't have (sub)faction (sub)categories, such as Articles and Downloads, (sub)faction names can be entered in the search criteria to narrow content down to, say, the Vindicators Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes. This comes down to (a) members ensuring that they enter usable data in content fields (and I plan to create a best practices living document to help with that), and (b) members knowing how to use the search engine (a tutorial I have planned).

 

Believe me, I totally understand where you're coming from on how a lack of (sub)faction tags will make searching more difficult. Having them, however, would reduce the utility of the overall tags system.

 

3 hours ago, Teetengee said:

... I feel like nothing except community challenge would be useful for gallery uploads, and also wouldn't really help my searching.

 

Please explain this as I'm not certain what you mean. I think I have an idea, but I want to be sure that I'm responding accurately.

[Teetengee]

59 minutes ago, Brother Tyler said:

4 hours ago, Teetengee said:

... I feel like nothing except community challenge would be useful for gallery uploads, and also wouldn't really help my searching.

 

Please explain this as I'm not certain what you mean. I think I have an idea, but I want to be sure that I'm responding accurately.

Oh! When I upload images to the B&C gallery, I am prompted to add tags, but the tags listed above feel much more evenly distributed across posts than they would across images.

[Brother Tyler]

Yes, the current list of tags is driven heavily by the Forums, Blogs, Articles, and Downloads (and maybe the Clubs to a degree) features. There are definitely a few gaps in at least some of those. For example, I've been considering adding tags for homegrown (or fan-made) rules (works for all of those features), DIY organizations (also works for all of those features, with the possible exception of Clubs unless someone conducts some group project to create a DIY whatever), and maybe tags for finished and in-progress models. Those all require some consideration and tweaking, however, to minimize confusion. For example, a WIP project tag could apply to diverse types of projects, including converting and painting a miniature, collecting an army, creating a homegrown rule, writing fan fiction, developing an alternate history, etc. And since there will be a single list of tags that apply to all features, we can't develop lists specific to features (i.e., we can't create a Gallery tags list, a Forums tags list, etc.). Ultimately, we have to balance having a usable list with the other elements of content discovery. There are easy solutions for finding content for which there are no tags, and that might require both adaptation and education.