Top "generic" Astartes units you want patched

[L30n1d4s]

I actually thought GW did a great job changing the rules for Outriders to make them genuinely useful (replacing auto 6" advance with +1S/+1Dmg on the charge).

 

Excluding Epic Heroes and Chapter specific units (like Victrix, DW Knights, Grey Hunters, etc.), what are the top Astartes units you would "redo" and how would you do it?

 

For me, my top candidates for a face-lift are the following:

 

1) Reiver Lieutenant - Replace his ability to extend their -1 OC aura with ability to give his unit -1AP for all if its attacks within 12" (both shooting and melee). Also, give him Deep Strike so he can lead Reivers in from Reserves.

**This allows him to force multiply Reivers into a legitimate threat to tougher enemy skirmisher/light units and gives a reason to actually take him.

 

2) Vanguard Veterans - Give their melee weapons AP-2 (but still Dmg 1) and give them the option to choose either Sustained Hits 1 or Lethal Hits when charging (instead of only option for Lethal Hits currently).

**Makes them a legitimate melee threat (after all, they are the elite melee specialists in their Chapter) and gives them more versatility in close combat, based on the target they are fighting.

 

3) Suppressors - Allow them to be taken in squads of 3-6, increase them to BS3+, and replace their current rule (unit hit by them has -1 to hit) with rule for any unit hit by them has -2" Movement and -2" to their charges (doesn't work at all against Titanic and is only -1" move/-1" charge when used on vehicles and monsters).

**Since the old Thunderfire Cannon is gone to Legends, this gives Suppressors a useful role in controlling/limiting enemy movement. Also, by giving them better BS and the option for 6 models in a squad, they can actually have a chance of killing units that they shoot at.

 

4) Land Raider Crusader - Give any unit that disembarked from it this turn +1Dmg on its melee weapons if it charged this turn. Also, give its Hurricane Bolters, Storm Bolter, and Assault Cannons AP-1 when attacking targets within 12".

**Gives a reason to invest in this LR variant, since it can make the difference between a successful fight phase and a failure - e.g. consider Terminators with Dmg3 power fists, or Assalt Intercessors with Dmg2.

 

5) Firestrike Turrets - Give them Deep Strike and Rapid Fire 3 for the autocannon, Rapid Fire 2 for the Lastalon. Additionally, allow the unit to Overwatch for 0CP along with the current ability to hit at BS4+.

**Gives them enough firepower to actually be worth considering, and also a unit that can be Rapid Ingressed in and then fire Overwatch for free to protect a vulnerable friendly unit or Objective from a charge.

 

6) Drop Pod - Give it an additional rule where it can arrive more than 6" away from enemy units and any units embarked on it can disembark more than 6" away from enemy units (kind of like Tyranid Subterranean Assault detachment Tunnels).

**Gives a reason to actually pay for these transports, since now you can get 6" charges, be with Melta range when disembarking, able to throw a Grenade  etc. 

Edited February 22 by L30n1d4s

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Not sure what I’d like or rather have, but I feel like aggressors could use a rework some how.

 

4 hours ago, L30n1d4s said:

I actually thought GW did a great job changing the rules for Outriders to make them genuinely useful (replacing auto 6" advance with +1S/+1Dmg on the charge).

 

Excluding Epic Heroes and Chapter specific units (like Victrix, DW Knights, Grey Hunters, etc.), what are the top Astartes units you would "redo" and how would you do it?

 

For me, my top candidates for a face-lift are the following:

 

1) Reiver Lieutenant - Replace his ability to extend their -1 OC aura with ability to give his unit -1AP for all if its attacks within 12" (both shooting and melee). Also, give him Deep Strike so he can lead Reivers in from Reserves.

**This allows him to force multiply Reivers into a legitimate threat to tougher enemy skirmisher/light units and gives a reason to actually take him.

 

2) Vanguard Veterans - Give their melee weapons AP-2 (but still Dmg 1) and give them the option to choose either Sustained Hits 1 or Lethal Hits when charging (instead of only option for Lethal Hits currently).

**Makes them a legitimate melee threat (after all, they are the elite melee specialists in their Chapter) and gives them more versatility in close combat, based on the target they are fighting.

 

3) Suppressors - Allow them to be taken in squads of 3-6, increase them to BS3+, and replace their current rule (unit hit by them has -1 to hit) with rule for any unit hit by them has -2" Movement and -2" to their charges (doesn't work at all against Titanic and is only -1" move/-1" charge when used on vehicles and monsters).

**Since the old Thunderfire Cannon is gone to Legends, this gives Suppressors a useful role in controlling/limiting enemy movement. Also, by giving them better BS and the option for 6 models in a squad, they can actually have a chance of killing units that they shoot at.

 

4) Land Raider Crusader - Give any unit that disembarked from it this turn +1Dmg on its melee weapons if it charged this turn. Also, give its Hurricane Bolters, Storm Bolter, and Assault Cannons AP-1 when attacking targets within 12".

**Gives a reason to invest in this LR variant, since it can make the difference between a successful fight phase and a failure - e.g. consider Terminators with Dmg3 power fists, or Assalt Intercessors with Dmg2.

 

5) Firestrike Turrets - Give them Deep Strike and Rapid Fire 3 for the autocannon, Rapid Fire 2 for the Lastalon). Additionally, allow the unit to Overwatch for 0CP along with the current ability to hit at BS4+.

**Gives them enough firepower to actually be worth considering, and also a unit that can be Rapid Ingressed in and then fire Overwatch for free to protect a vulnerable friendly Charge. Objective from a charge.

 

6) Drop Pod - Give it an additional rule where it can arrive more than 6" away from enemy units and any units embarked on it can disembark more than 6" away from enemy units (kind of like Tyranid Subterranean Assault detachment Tunnels).

**Gives a reason to actually pay for these transports, since now you can get 6" charges, be with Melta range when disembarking, able to throw a Grenade  etc. 

why would any one take the autocannons if you can get 4 lastalon shots?

I don’t think the talons need RF, but maybe anti-vehicle 4+?

[Tacitus]

4 hours ago, L30n1d4s said:

I actually thought GW did a great job changing the rules for Outriders to make them genuinely useful (replacing auto 6" advance with +1S/+1Dmg on the charge).

 

Excluding Epic Heroes and Chapter specific units (like Victrix, DW Knights, Grey Hunters, etc.), what are the top Astartes units you would "redo" and how would you do it?

 

For me, my top candidates for a face-lift are the following:

 

1) Reiver Lieutenant - Replace his ability to extend their -1 OC aura with ability to give his unit -1AP for all if its attacks within 12" (both shooting and melee). Also, give him Deep Strike so he can lead Reivers in from Reserves.

**This allows him to force multiply Reivers into a legitimate threat to tougher enemy skirmisher/light units and gives a reason to actually take him.

 

2) Vanguard Veterans - Give their melee weapons AP-2 (but still Dmg 1) and give them the option to choose either Sustained Hits 1 or Lethal Hits when charging (instead of only option for Lethal Hits currently).

**Makes them a legitimate melee threat (after all, they are the elite melee specialists in their Chapter) and gives them more versatility in close combat, based on the target they are fighting.

 

3) Suppressors - Allow them to be taken in squads of 3-6, increase them to BS3+, and replace their current rule (unit hit by them has -1 to hit) with rule for any unit hit by them has -2" Movement and -2" to their charges (doesn't work at all against Titanic and is only -1" move/-1" charge when used on vehicles and monsters).

**Since the old Thunderfire Cannon is gone to Legends, this gives Suppressors a useful role in controlling/limiting enemy movement. Also, by giving them better BS and the option for 6 models in a squad, they can actually have a chance of killing units that they shoot at.

 

4) Land Raider Crusader - Give any unit that disembarked from it this turn +1Dmg on its melee weapons if it charged this turn. Also, give its Hurricane Bolters, Storm Bolter, and Assault Cannons AP-1 when attacking targets within 12".

**Gives a reason to invest in this LR variant, since it can make the difference between a successful fight phase and a failure - e.g. consider Terminators with Dmg3 power fists, or Assalt Intercessors with Dmg2.

 

5) Firestrike Turrets - Give them Deep Strike and Rapid Fire 3 for the autocannon, Rapid Fire 2 for the Lastalon). Additionally, allow the unit to Overwatch for 0CP along with the current ability to hit at BS4+.

**Gives them enough firepower to actually be worth considering, and also a unit that can be Rapid Ingressed in and then fire Overwatch for free to protect a vulnerable friendly Charge. Objective from a charge.

 

6) Drop Pod - Give it an additional rule where it can arrive more than 6" away from enemy units and any units embarked on it can disembark more than 6" away from enemy units (kind of like Tyranid Subterranean Assault detachment Tunnels).

**Gives a reason to actually pay for these transports, since now you can get 6" charges, be with Melta range when disembarking, able to throw a Grenade  etc. 

Generic across the boards:

Every 3-and-only-3 or 3-6 unit goes to 3-5 or 5-10.  It really messes with the back of my mind to divide 100 man companies by 3's and 6's.

Add a profile to the heavy hitting melee units.  Thunderhammers/Powerfists/(similars in other factions) start at 4A as is, and go to 2A with a (version of) S12 -3 D4-5ish (potentially with a randomizer element)

Make all or almost all the "man sized or smaller" Leaders also LONE OPERATIVE if they didn't start the turn/phase/whatever attached to something.

 

1) Reiver Lieutenant  Definitely needs to deep strike.  But I'd keep the Terror Troops thing.  That's Reivers niche, and should lean into it.

2) Reivers themselves.  If they take the grapnel and the vanes, it counts as a Jump pack and they move 12" and Fly.

3) I agree with Vanguard Vets but I'd go further give them a beefy potentially dual profile melee.  They should trade mobility for the invuln, not mobility and potency.

4) The Land Raiders should have equal-ish tank properties so improve its output more than make it a better troop carrier.

5)  Firestrikes should have Techmarine abilities, and a fairly high OC.  Their damage output should be improved and further differentiated, but I like the idea of them being slow and stuck.  If you want to deep strike them, let them ride in a Drop Pod.  But I like the fact that you have to really think about placement and movement rate to keep it from getting swarmed. 

 

6)  You're not quite correct.  If you can't deploy within 6 (or as you worded it more than 6" away") - Multi Meltas are in Melta range, melta guns are not, and Inferno Pistols can't even shoot.  They don't generally want Drop/Disembark, Charge, Ha Ha interactions.  If you want to give Drop Pods a something, I'd give them some sort of Tank Shock Orbital Bombardment like so:  The Pod Lands, and can land on top of an enemy unit - you go through a deadly demise check (or something similar) and the player controlling the landed on unit then moves as if it disembarked from the pod.  Then your unit disembarks not within engagement range of the first unit and (maybe?) can't do anything else.  We've seen enough Drop Pods land on Orks in Dawn of War conematics to have seen this sort of thing numerous times

 

7)  Assault Centurions:  have Calgar's Super Doctrine ability.  They can always move, advance, fall back, shoot, and charge.   Potentially not fallback.  Potentially not shoot (except weapons already ASSAULT)  But at move 4", melee focused and zero access to leaders or enhance, they need something.

 

8) For Assault Intercessors of both types bring back the Eviscerator to give them something anti-"tank".

 

9) Give the Bladeguard Ancient all the equipment of a Bladeguard Marine.

 

10) Impulsors go to Carry 12.

 

11) Equalize the power fists on Dreads and the Warsuit.

 

12)  Give Sternguard better combiweapons (and make them available everywhere) with a Pick One Profile similar to plasma and the Sword of the Emperor.

 

13)  Make the Victrix Guard squad 5-10, and Build Your Variations to include special/heavy shooting weapons like a Tactical Squad.  Or the Intercessor Aux GLs.