Kroot buffs and nerfs from the new 11th edition rules.

[Tawnis]

So, I was originally going to wait until all the rules came out to post a big breakdown, but we learned so much during the reveal show that I figured I'd post one now and do a final one next month once we have things like points, the primaries we are likely to see, and the last bit of the core rules. Here's what I've seen for the moment:

 

BUFFS:

- Leader models now remaining part of the unit is a HUGE buff to Kroot. It was always rough when we'd kill a squad that we had +1, to hit and would against and then the character survives with no damage and we lost our buffs against them. Now they retain for the whole game which is a big increase on dealing with chunky characters that had bodyguard units. 
- New Cover. With Stealth basically being always have cover, nothing changes for most of the army. However, cover was only ever relevant for cavalry against AP:0 weapons before, which were pretty infrequent. Now so long as our cavalry are toed into cover or partially obscured, -1 BS to attacks will be huge. Keep in mind though, that if a SINGLE model is fully in the open, the whole unit can be shot without the penalty, so the big 6 bricks of Rampagers may be hard to fully hide sometimes. 
- Now that battle shock causes a test to leave, our useless AoE battle shock strat might actually be used once in a blue moon. It's still pretty bad, but going from useless to pretty bad is still technically a buff. 

NERFS: 

- Discarding Mission Cards for a CP no longer allows you to replace those cards. Given how CP hungry we are, that is a reasonable nerf to our ability to access key stratagems when we get a dead objective. Less objectives will be dead now since they retain to score later, but overall, I do still think it's a nerf, though not a major one. 

 

Secondaries: Overall they look good for us and pretty easily scorable to some degree. Here's the new or changed ones. 
- Display of Might: Easy 2VP as this was often in the bag for us. You can now hold to end of your opponent's turn for 4VP instead. While risky, I think we are one of the armies most likely to be able to pull this off. Even so, I think most people will take their 2VP and call it a day, or cash it in for a CP. 
- Outflank: Guaranteed 3VP for us unless you're basically tabled on turn 5, very easy to get the 5VP for it too as we tend to spread out lots. (Have a unit within 6" of opposite board edges that are not your own.) 
- Forward Position: Hard 1st turn draw for most armies (grab the two objectives in no mans land, but not the center) and it is one of the ones you can re-draw turn 1, but that being said, I think in most games it's doable for Kroot if we get the first turn and have protected our scout moves. 
- Burden of Trust: Do actions on objectives, those units have to live until next turn. This is actually one of the harder ones for us I think. we have lots of units, but with all our carnivores giving sticky, sometimes, the objectives get left alone. Be weary of this one when positioning your army. 
- Beacon: Should be an easy 3VP for a Lone Spear and we can often snag a 5VP on it if we've pushed back our opponent and can edge them across the center or behind terrain. (Nominate a unit, it has to live until next turn, 3VP in no mans land, up to 5 if in your opponent's half.) 
- Plunder: Should be another easy one for us. Do an action in terrain on opponent's side of the board.  

I think the secondaries are pretty favourable to Kroot overall. With the ability to retain them, I think final scores will go up a bit overall and it will often come down to who can make the most headway on secondaries in the first two turns, so long as they can hold on and keep scoring into the end game as well. 

Based on everything I've seen so far, it does seem like we'll get noticeably stronger heading into the new edition. This also makes me wonder if our posts costs are going to go up to compensate. I don't think the general changes overall will be that noticeable to anyone who doesn't play Kroot though, so we'll have to wait and see. Everyone completely missed the Farstalker Deathstar that you could do when the codex dropped and it only got nerfed accidentally when broad changes hit everything else, so perhaps this is the reverse of that? Time will tell. 

 

Until then, keep hunting Kindred. 

 

P.S. Is this kind of breakdown something that you would like to see in a Youtube style instead? I've been waffling on the idea for a few years now, mostly holding back due to time constraints, but I've been considering it more and more lately. 

[Ulfast]

Great post. I like it very much. And it would be a good idea for a youtube video.

[Happy-inquisitor]

So I was just talking over the beacon secondary and how about...nominate a well hidden vespid unit. Leap them into the sky and deep strike them later - possibly even by rapid ingres so they drop out of LOS when your opponent has no opportunity to move to see them.

 

You don't need to score a secondary right away just don't leave all of them until turn 5 as you are capped. We need to see exactly what the explanation around this says and what the FAQ says but I think sometimes we can defer scoring to score more.

 

I agree Burden of Trust is a rough one - it might be worth taking that 20 kroot unit with shaper in just to help here (and to force your opponent to take Cull The Hoard and then find it really hard to score unless they devote insane firepower to the task)

 

EDIT: a couple of other things to add to the list

 

The prohibition on moving after ingres move applies to the Lone Spear Fire and Fade. I've never actually used this but in theory in 10th you could have used it to F&F onto an objective. Minor nerf

 

Big Guns Never Tire. This is still a -1 to hit - which now combines with the Stealth rule properly and also the Heavy change works here. Touching enemy vehicles or monsters in combat really messes with their ability to shoot their way out of the problem. Respectable buff as realistically you need to worry about vehicles less and KHP does lack anti-tank. You can mess with shooty vehicles and monsters far better in 11th than you could in 10th.

Broadly speaking I think KHP are pretty good at secondaries and if you take a few Vespid they are great at secondaries. I also think secondaries are going to be a big deal in 11th as I genuinely think players will be hitting the 45 cap on primary in close well fought games.

 

I would be very interested to see how you approach YouTube content. It can be very variable depending on the person presenting.

Edited May 27 by Happy-inquisitor

[Tawnis]

16 hours ago, Happy-inquisitor said:

The prohibition on moving after ingres move applies to the Lone Spear Fire and Fade. I've never actually used this but in theory in 10th you could have used it to F&F onto an objective. Minor nerf

 

Big Guns Never Tire. This is still a -1 to hit - which now combines with the Stealth rule properly and also the Heavy change works here. Touching enemy vehicles or monsters in combat really messes with their ability to shoot their way out of the problem. Respectable buff as realistically you need to worry about vehicles less and KHP does lack anti-tank. You can mess with shooty vehicles and monsters far better in 11th than you could in 10th.

Broadly speaking I think KHP are pretty good at secondaries and if you take a few Vespid they are great at secondaries. I also think secondaries are going to be a big deal in 11th as I genuinely think players will be hitting the 45 cap on primary in close well fought games.

 

I would be very interested to see how you approach YouTube content. It can be very variable depending on the person presenting.

That's only if you move in from ingress correct? I don't imagine spending much time with my Lone Spears not deployed on the table unless a mission requires it. 

Yeah, that's a good catch that I forgot about. It will be nice to not have to use a CP on EMP Grenades to get the -2, and we can even get it on the cavalry now if they are in cover which would be huge. 

I agree that secondaries will likely be much more important. Making sure you're able to score early and not get stuck under the cap in the late game is going to be crucial. 

Yeah, I'm thinking of a few ideas, but I might just be overthinking it at this point. I might just throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks. 

 

[Happy-inquisitor]

7 hours ago, Tawnis said:

That's only if you move in from ingress correct? I don't imagine spending much time with my Lone Spears not deployed on the table unless a mission requires it. 
 

 

It was very niche but you often don't need 3 on the table on turn 1 so leaving one in strat reserves is not terrible. In 10th you could in theory scoot 12" into the table from reserves but in all of 10th I never actually did it. So this is the most niche low impact nerf imaginable. Still I thought I would mention it

 

The way stealth/cover now combines with BGNT and with Heavy no longer working in engagement the damage from shooty tanks will be much lower. This part is significant. You can also EMP grenade not that it will usually be needed

[Happy-inquisitor]

I will add something to this after we have seen the core rules: battle shock is going to be more relevant

 

This is broadly speaking a nerf for Kroot and for T'au in general as Leadership 7+ is not as good as some other factions 

 

However it makes the War Shaper's Root of Honour ability a lot better. This used to be largely useless for earning VP due to the timing of it but now it looks much more valuable for removing battle shock at the start of the Command Phase (or really any phase in or after which you will score). 

 

The Grisly Feast is still not a great stratagem but I think it could be good into certain armies if you position well for it. The lingering effects of this could really upset your opponent's plans.

 

Kroot are not really great at inflicting battle shock - in general anything they knock below half strength they kill very soon after due to the detachment rule. So overall I would regard the new rules for battle shock as a slight negative for pure kroot lists - but with mitigation available its far from a terrible problem

[Happy-inquisitor]

Quick update on points

 

Carnivores same for 10 but 10 cheaper for full unit of 20

Farstalkers down 10 but the 3rd unit is the old price

War Shaper up 10 (battleshock removal is probably well worth the points)

Trail Shaper down 5 points

Hounds now 45 for 5 but 65 for 10. Tempting to take units of 10 at that price.

Lone krootox up 5 but no increase on larger units.

 

That seems pretty neutral to me. The War Shaper is significantly better if battleshock matters more so worth the points. Units of 5 hounds are more but Farstalkers are less so overall its a wash.

 

[Tawnis]

Yeah, it generally does work out in the wash. My list went from 1990 points to 1995 points. 

 

One thing you missed, Rampagers pay 10 points extra for their third unit now. 

 

I'm surprised Krootox didn't get hit with extra points to the Repeater Cannon, but I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. 

 

Yeah, War Shaper makes sense as their removal of Battle Shock will be a lot more relevant now. 
 

Something also to remember that I constantly forgot last edition because it almost never mattered. If your Rampagers kill a model with their mortal wounds, that unit has to take a Battle Shock test. 

I really like the change to Hounds. The 5 pack is a menace, so I'm not surprised we're paying a bit more for that. The 10 pack being 65pts now makes them interchangeable with Carnivores, in the list and I'm seriously considering changing from 60 Carnivores and 2 packs of 5 hounds to 50 Carnivores, 2 packs of 5, and a pack of 10.