Antarius Posted June 24 Share Posted June 24 I think Helsreach is just a regular BL novel IIRC. It's just set in the midst of one of the wars for Armaggedon which also happens to have a (now OOP) campaign book/codex detailing how to play out that conflict, so yeah it honestly is a little confusing But Helsreach should be available from BL as either a paperback or an audio book. The campaign book is called "Codex Armaggedon" and while it's pretty great, I don't think it's worth paying ebay prices for it - I think the lore content is probably available somewhere on the net. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/388057-confusion-over-the-%E2%80%9Cgrim-darkness%E2%80%9D/page/3/#findComment-6176963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowland Posted June 24 Author Share Posted June 24 (edited) Sorry, to rephrase the question… how does games workshop work in conjunction with the black library? For example this Ciaphus Caine was born of the books? But GW make rules for him, and a model etc. who controls it and who gets to say who lives or dies? Take Armageddon how did that start? Edited June 24 by Rowland Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/388057-confusion-over-the-%E2%80%9Cgrim-darkness%E2%80%9D/page/3/#findComment-6176976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grotsmasha Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 Games Workshop, Black Library, and Forge World are all departments within Warhammer a company, they are one and the same. All of their Lore holds the same bearing *technically*. Most consider the Codecies are the most relevant Lore though Rowland and Inquisitor_Lensoven 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/388057-confusion-over-the-%E2%80%9Cgrim-darkness%E2%80%9D/page/3/#findComment-6177073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antarius Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 As for someone like Ciaphas Cain, he started out as a character in a novel and then got a mini (many years down the road). Generally speaking, if a book series does well, GW might eventually do a model for them, but it’s in no way guaranteed. Inquisitor_Lensoven 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/388057-confusion-over-the-%E2%80%9Cgrim-darkness%E2%80%9D/page/3/#findComment-6177086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution Lord_Ikka Posted June 25 Solution Share Posted June 25 (edited) On 6/21/2026 at 3:05 AM, Rowland said: I guess what I object to is people telling me I can’t do this or that in Warhammer because it doesn’t comply with the 30 or so years of lore Anyone telling you no to a personal idea or army or whatnot in the 40k universe can shove it (aside from deliberate creations that glorify real-world monstrosities). The universe is vast and made for creating your own stories. Whether or not they comply with 40k canon is something you decide. If you want to create Space Marines that are recruited from Ogryn worlds and are twice the size of normal marines, wear bright neon green armor, and speak in haughty French accents- go for it. Your models, your "head canon", your gaming/lore. As a regular player/fan, you have no real say in what the official universe does, so feel free to go wild. There is a reason that fanfiction exists in such a large quantity; many fans want to imagine universes/stories in their own way and so create them. I have a gaming friend who has an entire army of World Eaters where the mortal components are converted Sisters of Battle, having become crazy, corrupted versions of the Sororitas. She also has a Raven Guard army of female marines. As long as her models all on the right bases, with the army being uniform across (ie- all X models represent X unit), no one cares about what her personal lore is when dice are rolling. That being said, there will be plenty of people chiming in about various lore bits and such. Anytime you put your personal stamp on an established IP, you will have critics and those that have little imagination but large mouths. It just depends on your personal skin thickness whether or not you let the comments sting. Edited June 25 by Lord_Ikka Lathe Biosas, DemonGSides, Adeptekon and 2 others 3 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/388057-confusion-over-the-%E2%80%9Cgrim-darkness%E2%80%9D/page/3/#findComment-6177100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowland Posted June 25 Author Share Posted June 25 Loving the sound of that Ogryn army! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/388057-confusion-over-the-%E2%80%9Cgrim-darkness%E2%80%9D/page/3/#findComment-6177101 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lathe Biosas Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 I agree completely on creating your own army and making it your own, despite what others may think. That is what attracted me away from another popular scifi wargame. Quick story (without mentioning the other game's name). I read the rules, bought some cool minis and showed up to a shop to try to play. Only to be told that my army was legal... but... the models were the wrong era, painted in the wrong color scheme and "historically" those units didn't fight together. The players were so wrapped up in the "canonicity" of the of a scifi game, that I never got to play. So, I got into 40k, bought a bunch of tanks, and painted my guardsmen up in UNITED NATIONS colors with white tanks (with UN stenciled on the side) and never looked back. Sometimes too many choices can be crippling, but there's nothing to stop you from putting your bright pink Hello Kitty Space Marine army on the table and having fun. Rowland, Adeptekon and Inquisitor_Lensoven 2 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/388057-confusion-over-the-%E2%80%9Cgrim-darkness%E2%80%9D/page/3/#findComment-6177107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabaakaba Posted June 25 Share Posted June 25 This. In 40k you are always right. Things in the book not grimdark enough? It's ok. They describe only few tens of places in few tens of world, there is way way more dark and grim things in such worlds not written about. And here is so bad places authors just can imagine. If you can than it's have own place in 40k Adeptekon 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/388057-confusion-over-the-%E2%80%9Cgrim-darkness%E2%80%9D/page/3/#findComment-6177212 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor_Lensoven Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 On 6/24/2026 at 12:21 PM, Rowland said: Thanks for the reading suggestion. I’ll add it to my list. Being (ahem) an older gentleman, this is my first foray into such a hobby. What’s the difference between canon, lore and things like the BL and those campaign books, which sound interesting. I believe the common belief is ‘everything is canon, nothing is necessarily true’ most people consider anything in a codex or rule book as 100% canon. anything BL that GW themselves have integrated into the larger universe is likewise typically considered canon (eisenhorn, gaunt’s ghosts, devastation of Baal, etc.) pretty much everything else is considered canon in the sense it could be a story or report etc in universe but what is being told may not be 100% true. so because I like my BA I’ll use the devastation of Baal book as an example. tyranids definitely 100% canonically invaded the Baal system and killed hundreds if not thousands of the sons of sanguinius from dozens if not hundreds of chapters. but does that mean every ship the book mentions as surviving or being destroyed truly survived or was destroyed? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe the person telling the story is claiming a specific ship survived for propaganda purposes of how great things are. Maybe they said a ship was destroyed for propaganda purposes like “they destroyed all these powerful ships and yet we overcame them!” Or maybe the person telling the story simply got bad information one way or another. Antarius and kabaakaba 1 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/388057-confusion-over-the-%E2%80%9Cgrim-darkness%E2%80%9D/page/3/#findComment-6177235 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antarius Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 (edited) As another example, the "current" campaign book "Operation Imperator" that came with the Armaggedon set has lots of interesting stuff (and some stuff I find rather bland). But I would always be completely willing to just slot my own characters in there in addition to, or in place of, the characters mentioned. I mean, it says there are two strike forces from Chapter XYZ commanded by captain so-and-so, but obviously (if I'm also doing chapter XYZ) I'll just use my own captain instead. And If I'm not doing chapter XYZ but I like the story of what those forces are doing, I'll just say "well obviously it's chapter ZYX doing those things instead". Depending on what you prefer, you can then say that the fictional person compiling the lists simply had wrong information or you can just pretend those lists mentioned your own chapter and characters all along. That's not big deal. In a wider context, I'd say maybe be mindful of whether you're doing something that will mess with other people's enjoyment (if you're going to be playing with them, that is. otherwise their opinions don't matter at all). If you know your friend is pretty big into 40K lore and enjoy the storytelling aspect of the game, maybe they're not going to think your joke army of Jar Jar Binks space marines is going to be enjoyable to play against. But if you really want to make it, that's still your preorgative, of course. I'm just saying that lore (and its impact on the game) is a social contract at the end of the day. Edited June 26 by Antarius Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/388057-confusion-over-the-%E2%80%9Cgrim-darkness%E2%80%9D/page/3/#findComment-6177256 Share on other sites More sharing options...
kabaakaba Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 What I love in gw's campaigns lore is that there is always enough space for my brutal pony regiment/chapter/waagh/etc. it's always 3-5k miles long battlefront and you know 300 marines so my guys right next to them behind this huge piece of hive debris. We are just not an Imperium propaganda boys so do not mentioned in imperium wide vox-cast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/388057-confusion-over-the-%E2%80%9Cgrim-darkness%E2%80%9D/page/3/#findComment-6177259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramell Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 On 6/24/2026 at 6:35 PM, Antarius said: I think the lore content is probably available somewhere on the net. GW has Codex Armageddon in the Warhammer Vault for anyone with a Warhammer+ subscription. I'm sure it's also on the high seas for those so inclined. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/388057-confusion-over-the-%E2%80%9Cgrim-darkness%E2%80%9D/page/3/#findComment-6177261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lathe Biosas Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 (edited) The other bit, if you are concerned about having a lore accurate army for a certain battle zone is just slide in an Inquisitor or Assassin (or Ordo Sinister Titan) into your force. Now your army is an off-the-books black ops unit that can appear anywhere in the Universe as needed. For Instance, my Aquilon Shields Adeptus Custodes are the personal bodyguards for a Vindicare Assassin. Why? Because the Emperor's Tarot deemed the Assassin to be of Great Importance to the Imperium. So wherever he goes, they go. Now my army can fit into any theater of war I need them to with a small paragraph. Edited June 26 by Lathe Biosas Autocorrect and 40k words don't get along. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/388057-confusion-over-the-%E2%80%9Cgrim-darkness%E2%80%9D/page/3/#findComment-6177284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowland Posted June 26 Author Share Posted June 26 (edited) Some great ideas here guys thanks. Does a campaign book give you Battlefield layouts and objectives etc? I’ve got a couple of codices (blood Angels and Tyranids) which have campaigns in but never really looked at them. It would be nice to have a “choose your own adventure” style book depending on the outcome of each battle. Re my homebrew I went with a mixture of what I read to be fairly in keeping with all the fluff I got off the interwebs and with enough daftness to make it a none too serious if you look hard enough. Edited June 26 by Rowland Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/388057-confusion-over-the-%E2%80%9Cgrim-darkness%E2%80%9D/page/3/#findComment-6177325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowland Posted June 26 Author Share Posted June 26 7 hours ago, Ramell said: GW has Codex Armageddon in the Warhammer Vault for anyone with a Warhammer+ subscription. I'm sure it's also on the high seas for those so inclined. Ramell, I’ve got a plus account. Where do I find stuff like that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/388057-confusion-over-the-%E2%80%9Cgrim-darkness%E2%80%9D/page/3/#findComment-6177329 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramell Posted June 26 Share Posted June 26 25 minutes ago, Rowland said: Ramell, I’ve got a plus account. Where do I find stuff like that? https://warhammer-vault.com/ Rowland 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/388057-confusion-over-the-%E2%80%9Cgrim-darkness%E2%80%9D/page/3/#findComment-6177342 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowland Posted June 26 Author Share Posted June 26 46 minutes ago, Ramell said: https://warhammer-vault.com/ Wow they hide that well. But blimey, all the Dwarves! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/388057-confusion-over-the-%E2%80%9Cgrim-darkness%E2%80%9D/page/3/#findComment-6177408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptekon Posted Friday at 03:39 AM Share Posted Friday at 03:39 AM On 6/26/2026 at 2:00 PM, Rowland said: Ramell, I’ve got a plus account. Where do I find stuff like that? ebay Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/388057-confusion-over-the-%E2%80%9Cgrim-darkness%E2%80%9D/page/3/#findComment-6180465 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeptekon Posted Sunday at 02:55 PM Share Posted Sunday at 02:55 PM (edited) On 6/23/2026 at 1:37 AM, Blissful Brushes said: A Code of honour at the highest levels of power is an amusing notion, especially in a regime like the Imperium. I'm going to go out on a limb and say maintaining that power too. Edited Sunday at 02:56 PM by Adeptekon Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/388057-confusion-over-the-%E2%80%9Cgrim-darkness%E2%80%9D/page/3/#findComment-6180651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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