Dorn and khan dead?

[Nagashsnee]

On 7/1/2026 at 1:49 PM, Orange Knight said:

 

That's a bit extreme even by Eldar standards. Is there an example of the webway transporting someone through time on such a scale?

The eldar did not build the webway. They do not and never have know its full capabilities and mysteries. We know the webway can affect the passage of time, and that sections of it are sealed of due to extreme danger both warp based and otherwise.  Everything is there to do whatever you want with the Khan and his marines. 

 

To say nothing of breaches and webway areas affected by other races like dolmen gates or beings like the Emperor messing around. The webway is just such a handwave cheat code that doesnt even need to affect any current lore. 

 

Have the Khan meet a Slaan, see gotrek and felix at a distance, crossover with another IP, AND STILL BE MISSING LESS THEN A DAY and it wouldnt even contradict any lore haha. 

 

Edited July 3 by Nagashsnee

[ZeroWolf]

5 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Here is the status of the Loyalist Primarchs according to the latest lore.

 

Guilliman - Returned

The Lion - Returned

Russ - Went missing 197 years after the end of the Heresy. May be searching for the mythical "tree of life" to heal the Emperor. The tree of life may actually by the Eldar Goddess of life, Isha who is being held prisoner in the Garden of Nurgle. His armour was found in a Chaos temple on the edge of the EoT.

Corax - Vanished into the EOT 1 year after the end of the Heresy to hunt the traitor Primarchs. Last appearance was kicking Lorgar's golden butt so hard he locked himself away for 9000 years. 

Vulkan - Last seen during the War of the Beast about 1500 years after the Heresy. Vanished destroying the Ork Waagh reactor. Unknown if his Perpetual regeneration can bring him back from that.

Khan - Vanished into the Maelstrom chasing DE raiders about 65 years after the Heresy

Dorn - Believed killed in the attack on the Chaos Battleship Sword of Sacrilege nearly 800 years after the Heresy.

Ferrus - Dead (maybe part of the Legion of the Damned)

Sanguinius - Dead but regularly appears to his sons in visions so his soul appears to be alive in the warp

 

So we have 2 dead, 2 returned and 5 missing. 3 of the missing Primarchs disappeared into the EOT or warp-related phenomena so could emerge at any time thinking that only a short time had passed. Vulkan is a big unknown. Maybe the Salamanders' quest to retrieve his lost artifacts will trigger him to regenerate again like Numeon's sacrifice did during the Horus Heresy. Dorn missing (presumed dead) as his body was never recovered. His hand was found is now one of the Imperial Fists' most revered relics but we know that he cut off Alpharius' hands just before killing him during the HH. He could have dropped a hand as a decoy and then vanished undercover.

 

So 3 of missing Primarchs could return without too much effort. 2 could return with a bit more narrative effort. 2 are dead and should probably stay that way as their deaths have a big impact on the character of their successor chapters.

I will add that GW added a wrinkle to Crovax lore in that art book they did by adding a tale that was passed around by different raven guard members that he had actually been in his tower the whole time and hadn't left at all. I think this might have been added to give GW an out if they felt that the warp entity Crovax was a step too far for what they wanted for his 40k release (if it ever happens, I think he'll be one of the last ones if it does).

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

6 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Here is the status of the Loyalist Primarchs according to the latest lore.

 

Guilliman - Returned

The Lion - Returned

Russ - Went missing 197 years after the end of the Heresy. May be searching for the mythical "tree of life" to heal the Emperor. The tree of life may actually by the Eldar Goddess of life, Isha who is being held prisoner in the Garden of Nurgle. His armour was found in a Chaos temple on the edge of the EoT.

Corax - Vanished into the EOT 1 year after the end of the Heresy to hunt the traitor Primarchs. Last appearance was kicking Lorgar's golden butt so hard he locked himself away for 9000 years. 

Vulkan - Last seen during the War of the Beast about 1500 years after the Heresy. Vanished destroying the Ork Waagh reactor. Unknown if his Perpetual regeneration can bring him back from that.

Khan - Vanished into the Maelstrom chasing DE raiders about 65 years after the Heresy

Dorn - Believed killed in the attack on the Chaos Battleship Sword of Sacrilege nearly 800 years after the Heresy.

Ferrus - Dead (maybe part of the Legion of the Damned)

Sanguinius - Dead but regularly appears to his sons in visions so his soul appears to be alive in the warp

 

So we have 2 dead, 2 returned and 5 missing. 3 of the missing Primarchs disappeared into the EOT or warp-related phenomena so could emerge at any time thinking that only a short time had passed. Vulkan is a big unknown. Maybe the Salamanders' quest to retrieve his lost artifacts will trigger him to regenerate again like Numeon's sacrifice did during the Horus Heresy. Dorn missing (presumed dead) as his body was never recovered. His hand was found is now one of the Imperial Fists' most revered relics but we know that he cut off Alpharius' hands just before killing him during the HH. He could have dropped a hand as a decoy and then vanished undercover.

 

So 3 of missing Primarchs could return without too much effort. 2 could return with a bit more narrative effort. 2 are dead and should probably stay that way as their deaths have a big impact on the character of their successor chapters.

Sanguinius coming back would in no way change the character of the BA, and would make the most sense for him to suffer the rage as well if they did bring him back as anything more than a deamonhost or demon of the emperor.

[Tacitus]

14 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Sanguinius coming back would in no way change the character of the BA, and would make the most sense for him to suffer the rage as well if they did bring him back as anything more than a deamonhost or demon of the emperor.

I suspect - IF the current paradigm continues long enough - all of them will come back in some form.  Maybe Ferus Manus comes back as a Dread or Automaton further leaning into The Flesh Is Weak.  Maybe all the Black Rage in all the Blood Angels and successors coalesces into a very dark Sanguinius.

[Nagashsnee]

18 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Sanguinius coming back would in no way change the character of the BA, and would make the most sense for him to suffer the rage as well if they did bring him back as anything more than a deamonhost or demon of the emperor.

Sanguinius coming back would destroy the existing BA lore and character. 

[Tacitus]

3 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

Sanguinius coming back would destroy the existing BA lore and character. 

How do you figure?  Do you think the return would retcon the fact that he died?  Will having a winged jump pack style centerpiece model take away the jump pack centric character of the chapter?  Will being reunited with their dad after over 10,000 years of separation make them less raging?  Less vampiric?  Will they change their paint scheme?  Will they start shooting more than punching?  What exact aspect of their lore and character will be "destroyed" by having the literal source of what they are come back? 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

6 hours ago, Nagashsnee said:

Sanguinius coming back would destroy the existing BA lore and character. 

It literally wouldn’t.

sanguinius would have still selflessly sacrificed himself.

his sons would still have the thirst and the rage.

 

the only way to change their existing character would be to be stupid enough to say not only did sanguinius see his own death but also his own resurrection, and his resurrection some how cures his sons of their magic space PTSD.

 

as long as they don’t do that, nothing about their lore or character changes.

[Arikel]

On 7/2/2026 at 7:21 AM, ZeroWolf said:

Actually its only one hand he lost now. That's why fan speculation is that it was Omegon he fought because Dorn took Alpharius hand off before killing him.

 

Plus you want to be technical about it, we've already had Horus come back...and die again from the time Fabius Bile created a clone of him that Abaddon killed. Plus we do still have a good clone of Fulgrim around, albeit in Trazyn's museum.

Could be. I’m not up on the novel lores so much. Lost my taste for novel/game tie ins when Starwars EU got exploded by Disney. Maybe if I’d started from the beginning it would be one thing but looking at the bloated mess the HH saga has turned into, with such varying quality between books and the whole now I see the man behind the curtainess of it all doesn’t inspire  anything in me to look at it now.

 

Apart from a few short stories hear and there i’ve stayed away from current era 40k stuff for similar reasons. Primaris and gulliman and cawl  nearly took me out of the hobby completely, took me 5 years to pick up the brush again. Absolute zero interest in reading about their exploits further yn
 

I don’t really rate clones on the same level as coming back from death. They don’t appear to have the same power or ability as the original. That’s why it would really need proper warp shenanigans to bring back Horus if they actually bring back Sanguinius. I’d really hate for that to happen though, 

 

In response to Sanguinius coming back as a living primarch instead of a warp entity it’s less how it affects the blood angels specifically than the fact that it diminishes the entire setting completely. That one of the emperor’s (2nd?) most favoured sons is killed by his first favoured , who he then slays in return, while taking mortal wounds himself that require him to be placed into a medical coma to continue his own existence is one of the most important tragedies that make up the settings Essential lore.

 

Having him come back in the flesh ruins all that but also takes the notion of grim darkness out behind the shed and gives it the old yeller treatment. There is no reason remotely positive in any way for Sanguinius to come back in mortal form if you actually care about the setting itself.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

2 hours ago, Arikel said:

Could be. I’m not up on the novel lores so much. Lost my taste for novel/game tie ins when Starwars EU got exploded by Disney. Maybe if I’d started from the beginning it would be one thing but looking at the bloated mess the HH saga has turned into, with such varying quality between books and the whole now I see the man behind the curtainess of it all doesn’t inspire  anything in me to look at it now.

 

Apart from a few short stories hear and there i’ve stayed away from current era 40k stuff for similar reasons. Primaris and gulliman and cawl  nearly took me out of the hobby completely, took me 5 years to pick up the brush again. Absolute zero interest in reading about their exploits further yn
 

I don’t really rate clones on the same level as coming back from death. They don’t appear to have the same power or ability as the original. That’s why it would really need proper warp shenanigans to bring back Horus if they actually bring back Sanguinius. I’d really hate for that to happen though, 

 

In response to Sanguinius coming back as a living primarch instead of a warp entity it’s less how it affects the blood angels specifically than the fact that it diminishes the entire setting completely. That one of the emperor’s (2nd?) most favoured sons is killed by his first favoured , who he then slays in return, while taking mortal wounds himself that require him to be placed into a medical coma to continue his own existence is one of the most important tragedies that make up the settings Essential lore.

 

Having him come back in the flesh ruins all that but also takes the notion of grim darkness out behind the shed and gives it the old yeller treatment. There is no reason remotely positive in any way for Sanguinius to come back in mortal form if you actually care about the setting itself.

Having him come back has no effect on that.

and the emperor is already coming back. He’s been active in the warp for a while now, and there’s that new video (was it the 11th edition release video?) that shows the emperor flickering between various states of decomposition/liveliness including his non-bionic appearing to ‘come back to life’

 

but as I said sanguinius coming back doesn’t change the tragedy of his death or the clash between the emperor and Horus that occurred afterwards. It will still have happened, but we’d just now get see how sanguinius actually deals with that tragedy himself.

Edited July 4 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[ZeroWolf]

11 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Having him come back has no effect on that.

and the emperor is already coming back. He’s been active in the warp for a while now, and there’s that new video (was it the 11th edition release video?) that shows the emperor flickering between various states of decomposition/liveliness including his non-bionic appearing to ‘come back to life’

 

but as I said sanguinius coming back doesn’t change the tragedy of his death or the clash between the emperor and Horus that occurred afterwards. It will still have happened, but we’d just now get see how sanguinius actually deals with that tragedy himself.

While true that the emperor is awake (from a certain point of view as he did possess Guilliman in the last plague wars book to burn one of nurgles gardens...and resurrect Guilliman While he was at it) i don't think the 11th edition trailer was suggesting he was getting up anytime soon. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

7 hours ago, ZeroWolf said:

While true that the emperor is awake (from a certain point of view as he did possess Guilliman in the last plague wars book to burn one of nurgles gardens...and resurrect Guilliman While he was at it) i don't think the 11th edition trailer was suggesting he was getting up anytime soon. 

I don’t think it was suggesting he was going to get off of the golden throne and walk amongst men again either, but between that and the lore you specifically mentioned I don’t think it’s too far fetched to say the emperor is no longer just the rotting corpse he was and all of the Emperor inactive upon the throne we got used to over 30 years is done

[Deus de Mortalis]

On 7/5/2026 at 4:55 AM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

Having him come back has no effect on that.

and the emperor is already coming back. He’s been active in the warp for a while now, and there’s that new video (was it the 11th edition release video?) that shows the emperor flickering between various states of decomposition/liveliness including his non-bionic appearing to ‘come back to life’

 

but as I said sanguinius coming back doesn’t change the tragedy of his death or the clash between the emperor and Horus that occurred afterwards. It will still have happened, but we’d just now get see how sanguinius actually deals with that tragedy himself.

Having Sanguinius come back to life would definitely negate the tragedy and meaning of his death!

 

It would also take a huge piss on the lore of the past 30 years (as much or more than Belisarius and his army of super astartes hiding out for 10 thousand years). Guilliman and Johnson had very strong lore that allowed them to come back. Sanguinius being dead, completely dead, everyone knows he is dead, ten thousand years ago, has been around since forever and we have been reminded of it all the time. Nobody is really dead anymore then. Death is just a temporary situation while you are waiting to reappear in the universe.

 

The emperor has always been around doing stuff in the warp, giving people visions, etc. When Guilliman was revived they used that to move the plot forward for the first time. Now the plot is that he is even closer to death and nobody knows what will happen what that time comes.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

15 hours ago, Deus de Mortalis said:

Having Sanguinius come back to life would definitely negate the tragedy and meaning of his death!

 

It would also take a huge piss on the lore of the past 30 years (as much or more than Belisarius and his army of super astartes hiding out for 10 thousand years). Guilliman and Johnson had very strong lore that allowed them to come back. Sanguinius being dead, completely dead, everyone knows he is dead, ten thousand years ago, has been around since forever and we have been reminded of it all the time. Nobody is really dead anymore then. Death is just a temporary situation while you are waiting to reappear in the universe.

 

The emperor has always been around doing stuff in the warp, giving people visions, etc. When Guilliman was revived they used that to move the plot forward for the first time. Now the plot is that he is even closer to death and nobody knows what will happen what that time comes.

How would it negate the tragedy and make his death meaningless? Actually be specific and break it down for me.

 

the biggest religion in the real world is based on a story about a guy tragically dying and then being resurrected…

 

What lore before 8th was there where the emperor was giving people ‘visions’ and that was confirmed?

[Karhedron]

17 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

the biggest religion in the real world is based on a story about a guy tragically dying and then being resurrected…

 

The central point of Christianity is Jesus died for our sins but rose again to open the path to eternal life. The Death and Resurrection are two sides of the same coin.

 

Sanguinius's death is a story that defines the tragic, grimdark nature of the setting. He was widely regarded as the best of the Primarchs but he still died. His sons should be the most honoured and glorious in respect of his sacrifice but have instead been cursed by it and are caught between nobility and savagery as a result. I am a BA player and I would love to field a Primarch-equivalent character in 40K (GW should have boosted the Sanguinor to that role when they redid the model but that is a separate gripe).

 

If you bring Sanguinius back then it is no longer a tragedy and it reduces the afflictions of his sons to just side-effects of his temporary death rather than foundational aspects of their character. The tragedy of the Blood Angels is that even the ultimate sacrifice was not enough to secure a true and lasting victory. Bring him back and it is no longer the ultimate sacrifice, just a 9000 year power nap with issues.

[Arikel]

I believe the previous poster said it better than I, but Ill give it a whirl. Sanguinius coming back as a flesh and blood primarch doesn’t change the fact that his death occurred but it would render it meaningless. It means that there are no consequences for any actions taken in the 40k universe, because even the most important and impactful events can be ignored or rewritten at the whim of a corporation for no reason other than they might make a quick buck. 
 

As an example, the introduction of primaris was heavy handed, clumsy and poorly handled. It was bluntly obvious that they wanted to force the replacement of the original sm model line for financial reasons, but the lore written  to support the change in universe was so obviously an afterthought of the poorest quality I’d ever seen  that it turned me off more then if they just released the new models, completely stopped production of the original line and said the old models were no longer acceptable at tournaments or in GW stores. I’d rather blunt honesty than the trash quality excuses we got instead.

 

That being said,  Sanguinius coming back as a warp entity that communicates with faithful servants of the emperor in dreams, signs, and visions is something else. Even having stats and being able to be summoned to battle like an Avatar of Khaine or one of the named Chaos demons would be perfectly fine. This is something that actually can be made sense of in universe, doesn’t detract from the setting and could actually make it more interesting. It would show the emperor’s increasing knowledge of and ability to project his power as he sheds the last of his mortality and accepts his place in the warp as the god of humanity and  order and not look like the company just trying to make a little cash while treating the client base like a bunch of idiots that will buy anything stamped with the brand on it.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

10 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

The central point of Christianity is Jesus died for our sins but rose again to open the path to eternal life. The Death and Resurrection are two sides of the same coin.

 

Sanguinius's death is a story that defines the tragic, grimdark nature of the setting. He was widely regarded as the best of the Primarchs but he still died. His sons should be the most honoured and glorious in respect of his sacrifice but have instead been cursed by it and are caught between nobility and savagery as a result. I am a BA player and I would love to field a Primarch-equivalent character in 40K (GW should have boosted the Sanguinor to that role when they redid the model but that is a separate gripe).

 

If you bring Sanguinius back then it is no longer a tragedy and it reduces the afflictions of his sons to just side-effects of his temporary death rather than foundational aspects of their character. The tragedy of the Blood Angels is that even the ultimate sacrifice was not enough to secure a true and lasting victory. Bring him back and it is no longer the ultimate sacrifice, just a 9000 year power nap with issues.

The death was still a tragedy because it cursed the geneseed with magic space PTSD….thats the real tragedy, not that a soldier died.

 

2 hours ago, Arikel said:

I believe the previous poster said it better than I, but Ill give it a whirl. Sanguinius coming back as a flesh and blood primarch doesn’t change the fact that his death occurred but it would render it meaningless. It means that there are no consequences for any actions taken in the 40k universe, because even the most important and impactful events can be ignored or rewritten at the whim of a corporation for no reason other than they might make a quick buck. 
 

As an example, the introduction of primaris was heavy handed, clumsy and poorly handled. It was bluntly obvious that they wanted to force the replacement of the original sm model line for financial reasons, but the lore written  to support the change in universe was so obviously an afterthought of the poorest quality I’d ever seen  that it turned me off more then if they just released the new models, completely stopped production of the original line and said the old models were no longer acceptable at tournaments or in GW stores. I’d rather blunt honesty than the trash quality excuses we got instead.

 

That being said,  Sanguinius coming back as a warp entity that communicates with faithful servants of the emperor in dreams, signs, and visions is something else. Even having stats and being able to be summoned to battle like an Avatar of Khaine or one of the named Chaos demons would be perfectly fine. This is something that actually can be made sense of in universe, doesn’t detract from the setting and could actually make it more interesting. It would show the emperor’s increasing knowledge of and ability to project his power as he sheds the last of his mortality and accepts his place in the warp as the god of humanity and  order and not look like the company just trying to make a little cash while treating the client base like a bunch of idiots that will buy anything stamped with the brand on it.

Bro…there being no consequences ship left a long time ago in this setting. Nothing  that happens ever has any real consequences on the universe.

 

cadia falls? No consequences 

tyranids eat the majority of sanguinius’ sons? No consequences.

 

[Tacitus]

6 hours ago, Arikel said:

I believe the previous poster said it better than I, but Ill give it a whirl. Sanguinius coming back as a flesh and blood primarch doesn’t change the fact that his death occurred but it would render it meaningless. It means that there are no consequences for any actions taken in the 40k universe, because even the most important and impactful events can be ignored or rewritten at the whim of a corporation for no reason other than they might make a quick buck. 

Well, yeah?  This is nothing new.  The other Primarchs are coming back.  All of them should come back - IN SOME FORM - as an Army Centerpiece. 

 

Quote

As an example, the introduction of primaris was heavy handed, clumsy and poorly handled. It was bluntly obvious that they wanted to force the replacement of the original sm model line for financial reasons, but the lore written  to support the change in universe was so obviously an afterthought of the poorest quality I’d ever seen  that it turned me off more then if they just released the new models, completely stopped production of the original line and said the old models were no longer acceptable at tournaments or in GW stores. I’d rather blunt honesty than the trash quality excuses we got instead.

 

That being said,  Sanguinius coming back as a warp entity that communicates with faithful servants of the emperor in dreams, signs, and visions is something else. Even having stats and being able to be summoned to battle like an Avatar of Khaine or one of the named Chaos demons would be perfectly fine. This is something that actually can be made sense of in universe, doesn’t detract from the setting and could actually make it more interesting. It would show the emperor’s increasing knowledge of and ability to project his power as he sheds the last of his mortality and accepts his place in the warp as the god of humanity and  order and not look like the company just trying to make a little cash while treating the client base like a bunch of idiots that will buy anything stamped with the brand on it.

I actually suspect Sanguinius is the one they set up for coming back as a new Cawl experiment without Guilliman's approval.  Maybe its Ferrus Manus but I think its Sanguinius.  The idea I heard was bringing back Manus as a super Dread, and I liked that gelling with The Flesh Is Weak.  Realistically it COULD be (and 51/49 probably is) Manus, Sanguinius, Horus and Kurze - with Horus and Lupercal being reclaimed by the Chaos Legions from Mars or something. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

Also I haven’t read the relevant HH books (haven’t read any HH books in 20ish years now) but iirc much of sanguinius’ sacrifice was already sullied and made completely pointless with the retconning of the ‘chink in the armor’ 

 

the whole point of sanguinius’ sacrifice was originally he created the opening the emperor used to defeat Horus. Arguably a a sacrifice on par with ‘dying for our sins’

 

without it sanguinius walked to his death for no reason, and if what I heard of the HH scene is true, sanguinius got absolutely rag dolled, making his sacrifice look even more laughable.

[Karhedron]

On 7/10/2026 at 4:28 PM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

without it sanguinius walked to his death for no reason, and if what I heard of the HH scene is true, sanguinius got absolutely rag dolled, making his sacrifice look even more laughable.

 

Not entirely. The Emperor originally wanted Sanguinius to remain on Terra rather than join the assault on the Vengeful Spirit but Sanguinius explained that he had to go. If his vision was false, he would slay Horus himself and spare the Emperor the grief of killing his favourite son. If his vision was true, it was vital that he went because it meant Horus would kill him no matter what he did. Sanguinius reasoned that if his visions were true and he did not go, that meant the Emperor was doomed to fail and die aboard the Vengeful Spirit. since the only way for Horus to kill Sanguinius on Terra was if the Emperor was already dead. By facing Horus first, Sanguinius guaranteed that the Emperor would still have a chance to win when he met Horus.

 

So Sanguinius did give the Emperor the chance to kill Horus. Not by making a chink in his armour but by finding a loophole in the prophetic visions that led to the Emperor's survival at the cost of his own life.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 7/12/2026 at 10:29 AM, Karhedron said:

 

Not entirely. The Emperor originally wanted Sanguinius to remain on Terra rather than join the assault on the Vengeful Spirit but Sanguinius explained that he had to go. If his vision was false, he would slay Horus himself and spare the Emperor the grief of killing his favourite son. If his vision was true, it was vital that he went because it meant Horus would kill him no matter what he did. Sanguinius reasoned that if his visions were true and he did not go, that meant the Emperor was doomed to fail and die aboard the Vengeful Spirit. since the only way for Horus to kill Sanguinius on Terra was if the Emperor was already dead. By facing Horus first, Sanguinius guaranteed that the Emperor would still have a chance to win when he met Horus.

 

So Sanguinius did give the Emperor the chance to kill Horus. Not by making a chink in his armour but by finding a loophole in the prophetic visions that led to the Emperor's survival at the cost of his own life.

That’s some very round about knotted logic.

 

if the vision is true he’d end up there regardless of the choices he makes. If the vision is false literally anything could happen as a result.

[Karhedron]

12 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

if the vision is true he’d end up there regardless of the choices he makes.

 

Yes but the key bit is that his choice still matters because if Horus kills him on the Vengeful Spirit, the Emperor still has a chance. If Horus kills him on Terra, it means the Emperor is already dead.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

13 hours ago, Karhedron said:

 

Yes but the key bit is that his choice still matters because if Horus kills him on the Vengeful Spirit, the Emperor still has a chance. If Horus kills him on Terra, it means the Emperor is already dead.

not really, if they can teleport aboard the ship Horus could teleport into the palace.

 

but again, if the vision is wrong, the emperor could have just slain Horus without sanguinius’ death. A vision being wrong means literally anything could happen.

 

So then sanguinius’ death just becomes a vicious circle. He died because he had a the vision. Because he died he had the vision.

since time isn’t linear in the warp, it all becomes a chicken or the egg situation.

 

in the end, sanguinius only went to the fight because of the vision.

Edited July 17 by Inquisitor_Lensoven

[Tacitus]

On 7/16/2026 at 12:11 PM, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

That’s some very round about knotted logic.

 

if the vision is true he’d end up there regardless of the choices he makes. If the vision is false literally anything could happen as a result.

They do the same thing with Curze who is often times the mirror of Sanguinius. 

6 hours ago, Inquisitor_Lensoven said:

in the end, sanguinius only went to the fight because of the vision.

That's the part that diminishes his sacrifice.  I'm pretty sure he "went" because it was his duty, and he was angry at Horus, and yadda yadda Space Marines saving mankind. 

[Adeptekon]

I think returning Primmies is dumb, but GW gonna milk it.

 

If they do bring Dorn back into the current state of the Imperium his staunch iron-conservatism for the Imperial Truth will get triggered to the 9th degree. No way will he accept a roving fleet of step-children burning people at the stake for the Imperial Creed. The Black Templars will have an indentity crisis, but they will not sucumb to it, because while Dorn is revered as their sperm donner it is Sigismund who is their *real* father.

 

While the Black Templars could in theory carry on just as he sent them forth to do, Dorn would see everything as it is, a total and complete 10,000 year failure of the enteral crusade, a corruption of the truth, and his fathers will of propagating it to all of mankind.

 

In this post-apocalyptic setting he could not tollerate any of it. Therefore he would have to clean house starting with his own and the civil war would begin which I fully support.

 

If however they bring Dorn back and try to fit him in and make him passive it's going to suck.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

On 7/26/2026 at 6:51 PM, Adeptekon said:

I think returning Primmies is dumb, but GW gonna milk it.

 

If they do bring Dorn back into the current state of the Imperium his staunch iron-conservatism for the Imperial Truth will get triggered to the 9th degree. No way will he accept a roving fleet of step-children burning people at the stake for the Imperial Creed. The Black Templars will have an indentity crisis, but they will not sucumb to it, because while Dorn is revered as their sperm donner it is Sigismund who is their *real* father.

 

While the Black Templars could in theory carry on just as he sent them forth to do, Dorn would see everything as it is, a total and complete 10,000 year failure of the enteral crusade, a corruption of the truth, and his fathers will of propagating it to all of mankind.

 

In this post-apocalyptic setting he could not tollerate any of it. Therefore he would have to clean house starting with his own and the civil war would begin which I fully support.

 

If however they bring Dorn back and try to fit him in and make him passive it's going to suck.

The emperor is a warp god by now, so he could very easily speak to Dorn and tell him while this isn’t what he wanted for humanity this is how it must be for now. Their praise empowering him to be an equal or near equal of the chaos gods, and to bite his tongue.

 

the imperium is too weak and unstable for the imperial truth right now.