Lightning Claws are technically broken

[Xenith]

I think we all know how goo lightning claws are in HH3.0, and there's a few reason for that, however let me go into the main reason why I can prove this is true, instead of feeling.

 

1. In previous versions of the rules, you gained an extra attack for having 2 melee weapons, including a pistol.
2. Things like hammers, fists and claws were too strong to get a bonus attack with from a 1pt pistol, so they made the paired/specialist weapon rule
3. This led to people taking the smart choice of hammer+claw to have flexibility as well as +1A, and hammer+claw was cheaper than 2x Hammer. 
4. To make 2X claw stronger and more attractive, the team gave claws a single additional bonus attack both in 40k and HH2.0, so one claw gets nothing, a pair of claws was +2 total (+1 from paired weapons, +1 from being claws)
5. This +1 always included the base +1 attack from having a pair of specialist weapons. 
6. In 3.0, the +1A from a pair of weapons was removed from the rules, and instead baked directly into the profiles of models that came stock with 2x melee weapons/bp+chain sword etc. 
7. The +2 attacks from the claws remained as-is, despite all other paired weapons losing the bonus attack.
8. This means the claws benefit from the+1A baked into the profile of melee units AND the +1 A for 2 melee weapons baked into the claw profile. 
9. In practice, this means:
   1. A Legion praetor with 2 hammers gets 5 attacks in 2.0 and 5 attacks in 3.0
   2. A Legion Praetor with 2 claws gets 6 attacks in 2.0 and 7 attacks in 3.0. 
   3. Night raptors with 2 claws in 2.0 get 4 attacks, and 5 attacks each in 3.0.

 

There are more examples than this, and some units come out the same as before, like normal terminators who are 4A in both instances, same with assault sergeants.

 

How is my thinking on this? While they might be technically broken, as in, they do not follow the same rules as every other weapon in the edition, I dont think they are game breaking. We do see them everywhere now, though, and they have gone from a 'rule of cool' choice to a top pick for killing things, mainly due to:

1. More reliable AP2 (on hit with auto wound compared to 6+ to wound in 2.0)
2. Loss of 2+ saves in power armoured squads, meaning claws are free to carve up 3+ saves with abandon. 

[SlickSamos]

Not broken as they perform how I'd expect them to (spot the pedant - that's right it's me!), however they are definitely undercosted!  Pairs should probably be 5/10 points more depending on the equipment options available.

 

As a response to 9,

9.1. You no longer need to spend points on a second TH to get 5 attacks with it

9.2. Paired LCs are the most expensive option on this character which seems fair, but if they take TDA then it becomes cheaper than a PF/TH for some reason (so are undercosted)

9.3. Absolutely undercosted for what they do, and also single LCs on veteran type units are also undercosted

To add another one (9.4.?) terminator squads seem pretty fairly costed for both one LC and paired LC.

 

Yeah it's not great cost balancing, but it only really sucks is everyone is taking them instead of a mix of close combat weapons in units like Assault Veterans.  

[Xenith]

All those things you describe isn't "as you expect them to" though, but "drastically over perform for the points", which is broken 

Agree though, a couple of extra points wouldn't hurt. I think the dogmatic multiples of 5 really hurts the game. Base power weapons should only be 5pts for a line grunt. 

[Gorgoff]

I think 3.0 is overengineered without any testing done and it shows. 

Personally I came to the conclusion that I really don't need 574 different kind of close combat weapons which habe two ir three clear winner which every new player takes and spams and the rest being only book filler with no real purpose.

That's why I'd prefer if GW goes back to only have power weapons which ignore armour, one kind of power fist kind of weapon which doubles S and hits last and maybe one weapon in between.

That's it. 

It would allow the most possible freedom in building your models, no possible loop holes (or less of these) easy to understand and remember and still enough variation to choose from.

[Spagunk]

I don't agree with the statement about having so many different CCWs. Part of the flavo(u)r of HH is that rules and gear are more "crunchy" than standard 40k. We have spears being distinct from axe which is distinct from fists etc. I think GW did some favors by adding things like Breaching vs. Rending or making things +- initiative. Lord knows I hated how axes were just worse fists in previous editions. But I want more reasons to mount different weapons, not less.

 

Claws used to stink in previous editions because they were too costly and few units could use them meaningfully. Other than a bit of a price increase, I think they're a good, legitimate choice now rather than being fodder for the bits box.

Edited July 20 by Spagunk

[Gorgoff]

On 7/20/2026 at 8:07 PM, Spagunk said:

 Lord knows I hated how axes were just worse fists in previous editions. But I want more reasons to mount different weapons, not less.

 

That's basically what I've said though.

If power weapons all had the same rule -that they ignore armour saves-the balancing between them would be perfect and you could take every type and not just one obvious better version over all the others.

Having ten different weapons to choose from is an illusion if only one of them is actualy good or so obvious more powerful like the double lightning claw on sergeants.

 

It make literally no sense to take a power sword or power maul on a despoiler sergeants if lightning claws are an option. And it is the same in so many many instances in the game. 

It makes even less sense to give a tactical marines sarge any power weapon at all.

It would be purely decorative and had no ingame purpose. So why bother with making different rules for different weapons?

 

Edited July 24 by Gorgoff

[Spagunk]

On 7/23/2026 at 7:49 AM, Gorgoff said:

...

It make literally no sense to take a power sword or power maul on a despoiler sergeants if lightning claws are an option. And it is the same in so many many instances in the game. 

...

Not for me (Ba player :p ). I need that +1 str so I can wound you on a 2+ in the charge. Lightning claws don't give me that.

Edited 23 hours ago by Spagunk