Demons evolution

[kabaakaba]

How do demons evolve? 

Let's say new entity was born form some emotional burst and join other little fella of it's kind.

But what next? I mean they roaming warp and feed on emotions we produce.

But how lil sensation embodiment became bloodletter? Or nurgling?

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I've held off on replying as I don't really have much more than my own "gut" feel on how things work, and can't say how much it is actually grounded in the actual material released by GW.  For that, best for someone like our resident fluff guru @LSM to weigh in.  Additionally, to the extent my "feel" is grounded in GW material, its from the stuff that was out around 2nd to 5th edition, as that's when I was paying the most attention to such things.  Certainly, my belief is that "undivided" demons/warp beings are more common than those aligned with "the big 4", but my understanding of the current background is that undivided entities either largely don't exist or are ignored.

 

First, while I think I understand your point, I don't think "evolve" is strictly correct, as I think demons are too mutable to be considered as "evolving", which suggests (to me, anyway) a more stable state of being that is passed on, slightly altered, to one's descendants.  Rather, I think you refer to a particular entity altering its nature (so, to use RPG terminology, "levelling up" (or down)), where the term "evolve" isn't a perfect fit, but where I can't think of any particular fitting replacement term.

 

Anyway, my view is that in the warp emotions can "condense" into active beings that are not at first sentient, but after collecting more emotional "energies", consuming other such condensations, growing and organizing those energies, become increasingly sophisticated.  So, at the low level of sophistication, they have a loose "physical" form and the rudimentary ability to react to their circumstances - so, perhaps analogous to an ameoba.  As they become more sophisticated, they might develop into something like a nurgling or other minor demon.

 

At least for the "big 4" classifications, its unclear how much "self" mobility there is between demon types - so, by "evolution" (in the sense I believe you are using it) rather than promotion.  Certainly, in the GW materials I believe there is descriptions of promotion - I think in one of the books there is a greater unclean one who was once a nurgling but was raised up by Nurgle.  Presumably, demotions are also possible, as are lesser promotions by powerful demons of lesser status (so, a greater demon promoting a lesser demon to a more powerful type).  I would suspect that such promotions would involve the powerful demon giving some of its power to the lesser, so I expect such to occur only when the powerful demon feels it has something to gain in doing so.

 

As for reproduction, I suppose some demons might be able to reproduce by dividing themselves, much in the way that horrors do.  Given that such would presumably decrease their power, its likely that doing so would rarely be voluntary.  I would expect, however, that on occasion when a demon is destroyed in the warp, that its energies might then form one or more lesser beings - though, if there are other demons present, those energies would IMHO be more likely to be consumed by those demons than reform into something else.  Its also unclear as to what extent those lesser beings would retain any of the memories or personality of their "parent".

 

Finally, the warp is weird and unknowable, so chances are anything can happen.  That said, not every outcome has equal chances of happening.

[kabaakaba]

Promotion sounds better. I think I read in some of hh books how some greater daemon hunting in warp, devour his kind and rose in power over millennia. But then khorn kicked him out for some failure and he grew again avoiding other greater daemons to not be eaten. 

So I'm curious how said bloodletter could became blood master for example? Does he need to kill more? Or kill something great?

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I'm sure it happens both through "self improvement" and promotion - and potentially both, at different times.  However, to broadly catch both, I can see a demon rising through the ranks through any (or a combination of) the following:

 

1)  Absorbing the power of other demons, though violence or theft;

2)  Absorbing a large amount of the relevant energy (say, by "farming" or gathering smaller amounts, or being present at an event with a large release (so, being at a massacre, for example); 

3)  Acquiring power from some other source or event (a ritual, magic item, etc);

4)  Being given power from a patron;

5)  Gaining the favour of its association god.

 

In terms of getting power from a patron, I suspect it would be because it is in the patron's advantage to do so, so as a reward for good service/loyalty (therefore encouraging other follower's behaviour), as payment for some service or resource, or to make the recipient more useful to the patron.

 

As for being bestowed divine power, it presumably would be for embodying the qualities the god admires or for doing things that advance the god's agenda and objectives.

 

Of course, this being chaos, the bestower's whim cannot be discounted.

 

For khorne, improvement would likely largely involve killing, as that is involved in both the goals of Khorne and likely patrons.  So, killing a lot, or killing something impressive, or even killing something a patron wants killed (even if not particularly powerful) could all be avenues for promotion.  And yes, I think a bloodletter could become a bloodmaster - and potentially be promoted even farther still.

Edited July 23 by Dr_Ruminahui

[Adeptekon]

Wouldn't they also get power from possessions?

[Dr_Ruminahui]

Yes and no.

 

They would gain power and stability in the mortal realm, while loosing (or at least having less available) in the warp.  To what extent they can "vampire" power out of their victim for use in the warp isn't something I've ever heard described in any GW material and isn't a common enough trope to presume it happens.  And as a note, in my opinion for demons (except maybe for the gods) its their power in the warp that matters - everything and anything in the mortal realm is simply a means to an end.

 

That said, having a mortal presence might allow a demon to do things that increase their power in the warp (say, gather cultists, commit sacrifices, complete a ritual, discover secrets, go on a murder spree, etc), but I wouldn't say that its the possession that causes the increase rather what the possession enables.

 

It is also unclear whether a daemon can take power with them when the possession ends - again, I haven't read anything that suggests that they do, but rather having such occur is deeply inconvenient to the demon.  That said, generally that's a forced dispossesion, and things might be different for demons that leave "on their own terms".

 

So I guess a safer answer is that I haven't read anything that suggests that the act of possession increases a demon's power, but I haven't read anything that definitely says it doesn't.  My own opinion is that it largely wouldn't, for the reasons above, without ruling out situations where it might.

[Adeptekon]

Well since a daemon is an aspect of its God, and it can use a host to further the agenda of that God it would seem natural they would be promoted for their hard work.

[Dr_Ruminahui]

20 hours ago, Adeptekon said:

Well since a daemon is an aspect of its God, and it can use a host to further the agenda of that God it would seem natural they would be promoted for their hard work.

 

I think I misunderstood your point with my earlier response.  Certainly possession can be a means of being useful to a patron (and/or god), and being rewarded for such.

[Adeptekon]

1 hour ago, Dr_Ruminahui said:

 

I think I misunderstood your point with my earlier response.  Certainly possession can be a means of being useful to a patron (and/or god), and being rewarded for such.

Also I think as some are not aligned with the Gods like Vashtor for example, they must be able to gain power on their own too, but that would make two classes of daemons, God borne, and warp formed.