Multi-Part Intercessors & Vanguard Veterans

[Halandaar]

I feel like a better way to avoid Vanguard Veterans stepping on the toes of Bladeguard would have been to keep their Thunder Hammer and Lightning Claws loadouts, rather than forcing them into the same wargear niche as Bladeguard and then having to nerf the shields to avoid them just being straight up better at the same job.

[LostTemplar]

I like the strapless grenade launcher. Looks like its a full 10 men squad, not 2x sprues of 5.

 

So far, I think space marines had a weak launch for 11th ed. The Intercessors are a rehash of the older Intercessors and the jetpacks are just a variation of the armageddon box.

 

The Thunderhawk is great though. I will get one. 

 

I do hope GW puts out something more interesting for marines during the week though.

 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by LostTemplar

[Master Sheol]

New intercessors are little better than the old ones but i already have all the ones i need (20) and without any loadout change there is no reason to buy new ones.

 

Vanguard veterans are not bad but inferior to the Firstborn ones (less bling and inferior loadout). As a DA,player i don't usually use Vanguard si i Will not buy them.

 

For me this is a another wasted opportunity i saw too many times in recent GW Astartes. They stasera Firstborn for this boredom.

 

[jaxom]

42 minutes ago, Halandaar said:

I feel like a better way to avoid Vanguard Veterans stepping on the toes of Bladeguard would have been to keep their Thunder Hammer and Lightning Claws loadouts, rather than forcing them into the same wargear niche as Bladeguard and then having to nerf the shields to avoid them just being straight up better at the same job.

I blame years of Storm Shields being the most popular build. GW is giving a lot of people what they want.

[Wispy]

 

12 hours ago, RedFox said:

no lightning claws!? cry in raven tears

Isn't a lightning claw just a power weapon? Wouldn't be too hard to swap one in, the Blood Claws box even has a classic one. 

[Orange Knight]

4 hours ago, LostTemplar said:

 

I do hope GW puts out something more interesting for marines during the week though.

 

 

 

It's funny to me that people find a straight update of an existing kit to be boring.

 

For years I've been hearing from people on this forum and other online spaces how GW should have just refreshed old kits instead of introducing Primaris and everything new that came with them.

I think a lot of the reactions people are having now vindicate GW's decision when it comes to having new unit ideas.

 

I'm hoping they go back to introducing all new units and ideas in the future, instead of playing it as safe as they have over the last few release waves.

[ThaneOfTas]

15 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

For years I've been hearing from people on this forum and other online spaces how GW should have just refreshed old kits instead of introducing Primaris and everything new that came with them.

I think a lot of the reactions people are having now vindicate GW's decision when it comes to having new unit ideas.

And yet, over the a last few years they have released faithfully updated Terminators, Assault terminators, Sternguard and the Space Wolf range, all of which was received very positively and with excitement. So it seems far more reasonable to interpret the lacklustre reaction that these updates are getting as being reflective upon how good of a job GW did, rather than whether it was a good idea to do so. 

 

Also considering that while yes, occasionally GW manages to hit it out of the park with something new like the Bladeguard, I would argue that they at least as often they whiff it with something like the Desolators, the Firestrike or the ATV.

 

Quite frankly I'm not sure how you could honestly interpret the relative lack of interest in these kits as being indicative of a lack of desire for faithful updates.

Edited 13 hours ago by ThaneOfTas

[Orange Knight]

Just now, ThaneOfTas said:

And yet, over the a last few years they have released faithfully updated Terminators, Assault terminators and the Space Wolf range, all of which was received very positively and with excitement. So it seems far more reasonable to interpret the lacklustre reaction that these updates are getting as being reflective upon how good of a job GW did, rather than whether it was a good idea to do so. 

 

Also considering that while yes, occasionally GW manages to hit it out of the park with something new like the Bladeguard, I would argue that they at least as often they whiff it with something like the Desolators, the Firestrike or the ATV.

 

Quite frankly I'm not sure how you could honestly interpret the relative lack of interest in these kits as being indicative of a lack of desire for faithful updates.

 

I'm just pointing out how people say new Intercessors are boring whilst I've been hearing that a 6th re-release of Tactical marines would have been the most wonderful thing in the world.

 

I think the new Vanguard are a straight upgrade over the old kit, with the exception of all of the faces which just look back. Helmets will be staying on.

 

But I would certainly prefer it if they stopped refreshing old units and stuck to designing new things. Bladeguard, Gravis Marines, Phobos units, etc etc - more new things would be more exciting, definitely. 

[ThaneOfTas]

29 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

I'm just pointing out how people say new Intercessors are boring whilst I've been hearing that a 6th re-release of Tactical marines would have been the most wonderful thing in the world.

People are saying that THESE new intercessors are boring. Not that New Intercessors are inherently boring as a concept. Those are two separate ideas. Honestly If they had basically been a De-wolfed mix between the new Blood Claws and Grey Hunters I would have been much more interested, and even more so If they had truly been Tactical Intercessors like I had hoped. Instead they over promised and under-delivered*, there's profoundly little of the older armour marks in these new kits, and while the bit of variation in the armour pieces that we do have is better than what we had in the previous version, It much more feels like this is the bare minimum that we should have gotten in the first wave. Its hard to get excited because 9 years later GW is releasing the kit that they should have just done in the first place, and even then only half baked it.

 

* I will concede that this could well be more my own fault reading more into the marketing comments than I should have, but I had hope that GW were producing something for 40k Marines that I would be interested in. I should have remembered what the first step on the road of disappointment is.

Edited 13 hours ago by ThaneOfTas

[Scribe]

54 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

It's funny to me that people find a straight update of an existing kit to be boring.

 

For years I've been hearing from people on this forum and other online spaces how GW should have just refreshed old kits instead of introducing Primaris and everything new that came with them.

I think a lot of the reactions people are having now vindicate GW's decision when it comes to having new unit ideas.

 

I'm hoping they go back to introducing all new units and ideas in the future, instead of playing it as safe as they have over the last few release waves.

 

I mean yet another clean CAD design that looks like minor variations...is yet another clean CAD design.

 

Like Primaris already? Sold.

Dislike already? I don't see anything to change that.

[Blindhamster]

1 hour ago, ThaneOfTas said:

been a De-wolfed mix between the new Blood Claws and Grey Hunters

They’re literally dewolved grey hunters for designs to the armour. I imagine a similar number of firstborn heads in the kit too.

 

they were never going to be blood claw design. Blood claws explicitly have lighter armour (interested to see where their stats end up actually)

[ThaneOfTas]

17 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

they were never going to be blood claw design.

They dont have to be exactly like blood claws to be a mix of them and what we got. Im just asking for some Mk VI or VII style Greeves, or visible cabling like on Captain Centos, some variation in the Powerpacks would be even better but thats probably a pipedream. Those things being included would significantly cut down the amount of kit-bashing required to make the kit palatable to me, and thus would make it of interest. As it stands this new one is just a much smaller step in the right direction and as such I frankly feel like I'd be happy to just wait another ~10 years for the next one to see if its any better.

[Blindhamster]

6 minutes ago, ThaneOfTas said:

They dont have to be exactly like blood claws to be a mix of them and what we got. Im just asking for some Mk VI or VII style Greeves, or visible cabling like on Captain Centos, some variation in the Powerpacks would be even better but thats probably a pipedream. Those things being included would significantly cut down the amount of kit-bashing required to make the kit palatable to me, and thus would make it of interest. As it stands this new one is just a much smaller step in the right direction and as such I frankly feel like I'd be happy to just wait another ~10 years for the next one to see if its any better.

Point is. They’re like with grey hunters, just without the wolf bits. 
 

blood claws lighter armour design is explicitly that.

 

i do understand the wish, but it doesn’t feel like it was ever on the cards. My bet is that blood claws will have Phobos style toughness and speed, rather than tacticus style. 

[Mogger351]

2 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

 

I'm just pointing out how people say new Intercessors are boring whilst I've been hearing that a 6th re-release of Tactical marines would have been the most wonderful thing in the world.

 

I think the new Vanguard are a straight upgrade over the old kit, with the exception of all of the faces which just look back. Helmets will be staying on.

 

But I would certainly prefer it if they stopped refreshing old units and stuck to designing new things. Bladeguard, Gravis Marines, Phobos units, etc etc - more new things would be more exciting, definitely. 

Whilst you are right, the range is still large and ungainly as it is, I'm not sure ounling new stuff that essentially must overlap existing units would help.

[ThaneOfTas]

10 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

Point is. They’re like with grey hunters, just without the wolf bits.

Which is why I was very deliberate about wanting a mix, so I'm not really sure what point you're making, I know that the new kit is very similar to the Grey Hunters, I never said anything to the contrary, I just dont think that on their own the Grey Hunters is enough.

 

12 minutes ago, Blindhamster said:

i do understand the wish, but it doesn’t feel like it was ever on the cards.

Cool, then neither was me being excited about this kit. Doesn't mean that I'm not going to explain or express my disappointment, especially when others try and use said disappointment to make erroneous claims based on shakey interpretations of the facts.

[Karhedron]

8 hours ago, Halandaar said:

I feel like a better way to avoid Vanguard Veterans stepping on the toes of Bladeguard would have been to keep their Thunder Hammer and Lightning Claws loadouts, rather than forcing them into the same wargear niche as Bladeguard and then having to nerf the shields to avoid them just being straight up better at the same job.

 

Not a bad idea at all. Unfortunately the boat seems to have sailed on that one.

[Rhavien]

Or, you know those ppl complaining don't have to be the same? There are always ppl complaining (especially online) and I would be surprised if there ever will be a thing where everyone's opinion about it is positive. Of course there is also the type of person who is complaining no matter what. 

I kinda like the new kit, but I have so many intercessors lying around that I really don't need another squad just because they look somewhat different. If the prices were more like year 2000 instead of '26 I would probably grab a box but I'm priced out for this kind of impulse buying.

 

However I see the advantage for new players to have a kit which isn't filled with 30 different bolter magazines. 

 

Regarding the vanvets I did a kitbash a long time ago to make them primaris sized long before the Armageddon box or the new kit was even rumoured . That leaves me with a squad of lightning claw / shield guys which I will happily play as count-as MC power swords. Unfortunately I never finished to paint them completely. Guess I know what my next painting project is.

[Mogger351]

6 minutes ago, Karhedron said:

 

Not a bad idea at all. Unfortunately the boat seems to have sailed on that one.

I'm not sure, thats just faster softer assualt terminators rather than faster blade guard. Too similar to both really that either matters.

[Ace Debonair]

12 hours ago, Laurence said:

The article mentions Mark VI and Mark VII helmets for the Intercessors, yet nomimages of same!  I'd sure like to see how a beaky head looks on these dudes.

I'm sorry to spoil your excitement, brother, but it actually says Mk VI and Mk VII helmets are in the Vanguard Veterans kit, not the Intercessors. 

 

[SpecialIssue]

3 hours ago, Orange Knight said:

 

It's funny to me that people find a straight update of an existing kit to be boring.

 

For years I've been hearing from people on this forum and other online spaces how GW should have just refreshed old kits instead of introducing Primaris and everything new that came with them.

I think a lot of the reactions people are having now vindicate GW's decision when it comes to having new unit ideas.

 

I'm hoping they go back to introducing all new units and ideas in the future, instead of playing it as safe as they have over the last few release waves.

 

An interesting model does not have to be a new unit. Look at the bazillions of conversions out there on the internet that put completely new flair or dynamism to the same unit that comes in a GW box.

 

These models are boring though, and it has nothing to do with the fact that they are of a familiar unit.

 

They could have gone for more interesting poses we've not seen before. Added more customisable individual bits to hang on armour or belts like older kits (grenades, purity seals, etc). Changed up some of the armour panelling to reflect older marks or more decor.

 

And I'm not saying that they have to go overboard with bling/extras - that's also overcompensating without thinking. The models just need to look good - as in when someone steps back and looks at it, it looks balanced (restraint and room for further expression), and interesting (dynamism, personality, aura). This isn't a checkbox of what I want to see on a model as a product (as a corporate would think I'd want), but a holistic art, of does this model look cool and/or interesting as a whole?

 

Again, the inspiration from which they are designing is boring, not the unit itself. These designs scream phoned in, unlike so many vanguard vet conversions I've seen over the years (stoic ones walking forward calmly, others using flowing purity seals/chains to convey movement, others really leaning into combat thrusts/poses, etc).

 

Passion really does shine through in art, and this is yet another case of the offerings being increasingly check-boxed products in the modern age. There is no excuse when CAD should apparently be making this so much easier to iterate and create.

Edit: and unless they really have passion for new designs, and not it simply having to happen due to corporate product needs, that lack of imagination will also shine through in new unit designs they use as a cudgel to try and compensate for this hollowness in inspiration.

 

Edit 2: looking at them more, I think they're actually pretty good on the balance of detailing vs restraint. The Intercessors seems to have bit more points of interest than the previous very bland lot, but not too much as befits a line squad. Posing is ok for a line squad. Vanguard I think are ok on details as well, but the poses are just really uninteresting, looking like a recycle of the assault squad poses.

Edited 10 hours ago by SpecialIssue

[MoriyaSchism]

7 hours ago, Halandaar said:

I feel like a better way to avoid Vanguard Veterans stepping on the toes of Bladeguard 

That's why they are in the air or on their tippy toes. They won't be stepping on any toes like that. 

[Orange Knight]

If the Vanguard are indeed equipped with "Combat Shields" then GW have done a bad job modelling them (They have mentioned Combat Shields twice at this point). They are clearly wielding Storm Shields.

Combat shields also allow you to hold a pistol whilst the shield is attached to the forearm. This would have actually made the unit look and behave in a more unique way.

As they stand now they really are just flying Bladeguard, which I think is bad for the game as it currently stands - of course we don't know what the rules will look like once the codex drops.
I would really hate to see a breakdown of WYSIWYG for the sake of balance, so If they declare the Storm Shields to be Combat Shields that would be disappointing. I would rather they were assigned a point cost to give players a genuine choice to make.

 

As for the Intercessors - I really don't see why anyone would be disappointed in them? This is the standard troop unit and the level of decoration is appropriate, and is a pretty good match to what we saw with the Tactical squad released in 6th edition. We have 10 different legs and torsos in the box which is a big deal, so no repetition there. This was one of the biggest complaints about the squad, and the Sgt can be decorated accordingly. 
The kit doesn't do enough differently to force me to buy it and start replacing my existing Intercessors, but it really shouldn't be doing that to begin with.

[Robbienw]

2 hours ago, ThaneOfTas said:

As it stands this new one is just a much smaller step in the right direction and as such I frankly feel like I'd be happy to just wait another ~10 years for the next one to see if its any better.

 

Hopefully 10 years from now there will be another new better looking armour mark.  MKXI 

Edited 9 hours ago by Robbienw

[Karhedron]

42 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

If the Vanguard are indeed equipped with "Combat Shields" then GW have done a bad job modelling them (They have mentioned Combat Shields twice at this point). They are clearly wielding Storm Shields.

 

They certainly do look comparable in terms of both size and style to the Terminator Storm shields. I guess we will have to wait and see the final rules, it should only be another month now.

 

 

[Rhavien]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

If the Vanguard are indeed equipped with "Combat Shields" then GW have done a bad job modelling them (They have mentioned Combat Shields twice at this point). They are clearly wielding Storm Shields.

Combat shields also allow you to hold a pistol whilst the shield is attached to the forearm. This would have actually made the unit look and behave in a more unique way.

Bladeguards can use their pistols anyway alongside their storm shields. A combat shield wouldn't change anything here. 

Maybe they don't get the extra wound or only a 5++ or it's just WarCom doing WarCom things. 

 

I also want to add an idea regarding the blinged out topic. I would love if the miniatures were designed in a way, that there were designated spots to add some danglings and bits. That way you could incorporate the ones from the upgrade sprues more easily and it would be YOUR choice if you want dangling relics, honours, pouches or grenades. As it is I find it rather tedious to add extra bits alongside the already moulded ones without the models looking to overloaded.