Stub cannon?

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

The sept 22nd rumor mill looks like an autogun or something and someone mentioned they think it looks like a mounted weapon.

 

got me thinking the heavy stubber is like a .30 cal MG of some type, but we dont really have a heavy MG like the M2, so that could be an interesting option, but maybe something slightly chunkier like the Soviet KPV 14.7mm gun.

 

potential profile

stub cannon

R36” A3 S5 AP-1 Dd3

potentially could be the main weapon for a light AA vehicle based on the hippogriff chassis with a twin mount.

 

would yall like to see something like that?

[MoriyaSchism]

I think the heavy stubber to cannon cut-off in the setting is 20mm. The smallest caliber for a heavy stubber I remember is 8mm from the Siege of Vraks books. There's a bit of abstraction in the game when it comes to heavy stubber rules since they cover everything from rifle caliber GPMGs to .50 cal heavy machine guns. The guns on the Sabre Platform or Imperial/AdMech vehicles look like M2s or upscaled ZB-26 style guns while the heavy stubber in the Genestealer Cults kits looks like a .30 caliber M1919. 

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

3 hours ago, MoriyaSchism said:

I think the heavy stubber to cannon cut-off in the setting is 20mm. The smallest caliber for a heavy stubber I remember is 8mm from the Siege of Vraks books. There's a bit of abstraction in the game when it comes to heavy stubber rules since they cover everything from rifle caliber GPMGs to .50 cal heavy machine guns. The guns on the Sabre Platform or Imperial/AdMech vehicles look like M2s or upscaled ZB-26 style guns while the heavy stubber in the Genestealer Cults kits looks like a .30 caliber M1919. 

I haven’t see an any lore stating any calibers for heavy stubbers, but I do know real world the cut off for small arms-cannon/artillery tends to be .50cal/12.7mm

[Griefbringer]

When I was serving in the real world military, 20+ mm weapons were considered auto-cannons, while automatic weapons of smaller calibre were machine-guns or other "small arms". That said, there are not many calibres between 12.7 mm and 20 mm that come to my mind, though 13.2 mm, 14.5 mm and 15 mm cartridges do exist.

 

As for WH40K weapons, most sources do not really address their calibres, which is probably a good thing, and the typical weapon classifications often cover a range of weapons and ammo types. Ork weapons especially are expected to vary quite a bit, due to the rather creative and non-standardised approach the meks have when it comes to building pretty much anything.

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

4 hours ago, Griefbringer said:

When I was serving in the real world military, 20+ mm weapons were considered auto-cannons, while automatic weapons of smaller calibre were machine-guns or other "small arms". That said, there are not many calibres between 12.7 mm and 20 mm that come to my mind, though 13.2 mm, 14.5 mm and 15 mm cartridges do exist.

 

As for WH40K weapons, most sources do not really address their calibres, which is probably a good thing, and the typical weapon classifications often cover a range of weapons and ammo types. Ork weapons especially are expected to vary quite a bit, due to the rather creative and non-standardised approach the meks have when it comes to building pretty much anything.

The US definitely defines any non-shotgun weapon over .50/12.7mm in caliber as cannons/artillery.

 

but any way, i think a non-bolt solid round gun between autocannon and heavy stubber is a niche that could be interesting to tap.

[Griefbringer]

Departmento Munitorum officials, already stretching with the logistical load of supplying regiments at the field with a wide variety of ammunition, may not necessarily appreciate getting another weapon in the supply system that needs to be catered for. Ammo logistics is one of those issues that gamers do not always think very much about, but in an inter-stellar conflict it can take a while to get a fresh load of ammo from the closest forge world. At least the laser weapons come with re-chargeable power packs to ease up life.

 

As for your concept of a light AA vehicle based on Hippogriff chassis, that sounds to me a bit too much like "WWII Staghound Armoured Car AA-variant IN SPACE!". Not that I have anything against the historical Staghound armoured car itself, but that anti-aircraft variant armament looks a bit puny even in WWII context. And in 40K context, a wheeled flak vehicle should have something a bit more beefy looking - like a pair of multi-lasers in the very least. If you are looking for a spot for a "stub cannon" (I would rather prefer "Thyros Pattern Light Autocannon" or such for a name), then perhaps some very light reconnaissance vehicle would be a good spot to mount it?

 

Speaking of AA weapons in the 40K setting, Hydra with its quad autocannons seems to be inspired more by rule of cool and historical examples than sensibilities of futuristic warfare (then again, Adeptus Mechanicus also has peculiar priorities). "Loads of dakka" approach of multiple autocannons makes sense in an environment where it is tricky to predict the exact future position of a fast moving target, as you try to shoot at the volume of space where you expect the target to be a few seconds from now. However, practical laser weapons simplify things a lot, due to the beam of light travelling so much faster through air than a conventional bullet. While maybe less cool, multi-lasers and lascannons seem like ideal AA weapons in the Imperial arsenal - and they also appear quite often as Imperial aircraft armaments.

 

As for the variety of heavy stubbers in the setting, I think it is worth keeping in mind the metal Necromunda range from the mid-90's, which contained quite a variety of different styles of heavy stubbers, differing in the looks but not in game effects. The largest one was wielded by Brakar, who used it to defend the Ratskins from the uphivers. Images of these can be found e.g. in the old Citadel catalogue pages in Stuff of Legends:

 

http://www.solegends.com/citcat1997/index.htm

 

The first plastic heavy stubber that I can think of is the one from 2003 Imperial guard vehicle accessory sprue, which looks quite a lot like M2 MG with thicker barrel and muzzle flash suppressor. The present Krieg heavy weapon squad version is more original, marrying together a wheeled carriage, dual weapon mount, barrel inspired byFrench Hotchkiss 1914 MG and huge box magazine that reminds me of German 20 mm autocannon. Orks on the other hand have their big shootas, which seem to be somewhere between heavy stubber and liht autocannon.

 

PS. Personally, I have never been fond of the word "stub" in 40K weapon names, and find the naming of the weapon family (stub gun, autopistol, autogun, heavy stubber, autocannon) a bit inconsistent. And while a stub gun may have a stubby barrel, heavy stubbers certainly don't - though perhaps it is onomatopoetic naming based on the noise they are supposed to be making when firing? As a non-native speaker, such naming practice would not be obvious to me. That said, the current president of my country is certain Mr Stubb, who is actually quite a tall gentleman and thus not at all stubby - I am wondering if this causes some hilarity around the world?

 

PPS. As for real-life militaries, I am not aware of any 13-19 mm caliber non-shotgun weapons used by the US military in the last hundred years, but I am always ready to be further educated.

Edited September 24 by Griefbringer

[Inquisitor_Lensoven]

17 hours ago, Griefbringer said:

Departmento Munitorum officials, already stretching with the logistical load of supplying regiments at the field with a wide variety of ammunition, may not necessarily appreciate getting another weapon in the supply system that needs to be catered for. Ammo logistics is one of those issues that gamers do not always think very much about, but in an inter-stellar conflict it can take a while to get a fresh load of ammo from the closest forge world. At least the laser weapons come with re-chargeable power packs to ease up life.

 

As for your concept of a light AA vehicle based on Hippogriff chassis, that sounds to me a bit too much like "WWII Staghound Armoured Car AA-variant IN SPACE!". Not that I have anything against the historical Staghound armoured car itself, but that anti-aircraft variant armament looks a bit puny even in WWII context. And in 40K context, a wheeled flak vehicle should have something a bit more beefy looking - like a pair of multi-lasers in the very least. If you are looking for a spot for a "stub cannon" (I would rather prefer "Thyros Pattern Light Autocannon" or such for a name), then perhaps some very light reconnaissance vehicle would be a good spot to mount it?

 

Speaking of AA weapons in the 40K setting, Hydra with its quad autocannons seems to be inspired more by rule of cool and historical examples than sensibilities of futuristic warfare (then again, Adeptus Mechanicus also has peculiar priorities). "Loads of dakka" approach of multiple autocannons makes sense in an environment where it is tricky to predict the exact future position of a fast moving target, as you try to shoot at the volume of space where you expect the target to be a few seconds from now. However, practical laser weapons simplify things a lot, due to the beam of light travelling so much faster through air than a conventional bullet. While maybe less cool, multi-lasers and lascannons seem like ideal AA weapons in the Imperial arsenal - and they also appear quite often as Imperial aircraft armaments.

 

As for the variety of heavy stubbers in the setting, I think it is worth keeping in mind the metal Necromunda range from the mid-90's, which contained quite a variety of different styles of heavy stubbers, differing in the looks but not in game effects. The largest one was wielded by Brakar, who used it to defend the Ratskins from the uphivers. Images of these can be found e.g. in the old Citadel catalogue pages in Stuff of Legends:

 

http://www.solegends.com/citcat1997/index.htm

 

The first plastic heavy stubber that I can think of is the one from 2003 Imperial guard vehicle accessory sprue, which looks quite a lot like M2 MG with thicker barrel and muzzle flash suppressor. The present Krieg heavy weapon squad version is more original, marrying together a wheeled carriage, dual weapon mount, barrel inspired byFrench Hotchkiss 1914 MG and huge box magazine that reminds me of German 20 mm autocannon. Orks on the other hand have their big shootas, which seem to be somewhere between heavy stubber and liht autocannon.

 

PS. Personally, I have never been fond of the word "stub" in 40K weapon names, and find the naming of the weapon family (stub gun, autopistol, autogun, heavy stubber, autocannon) a bit inconsistent. And while a stub gun may have a stubby barrel, heavy stubbers certainly don't - though perhaps it is onomatopoetic naming based on the noise they are supposed to be making when firing? As a non-native speaker, such naming practice would not be obvious to me. That said, the current president of my country is certain Mr Stubb, who is actually quite a tall gentleman and thus not at all stubby - I am wondering if this causes some hilarity around the world?

 

PPS. As for real-life militaries, I am not aware of any 13-19 mm caliber non-shotgun weapons used by the US military in the last hundred years, but I am always ready to be further educated.

In grounded settings I have no problem considering the logistics of things.

 

warhammer is not grounded, and considering the logistics of the imperium is silly.

 

for the last part it doesn’t matter if it’s a weapon in US inventory.

 

if a BMP is shooting at you with a 14mm MG, you report you’re taking small arms fire…

Edited September 25 by Inquisitor_Lensoven