Why is the Ork Faction Pack gone?

[appiah4]

I stumbled across this video today:

 

 

I just checked and the Orks faction pack is indeed gone.  Is there a reason why the Ork faction pack is gone? I am not putting it above GW to actually do this, but are faction packs being removed for new codexes to paywall them behind the paid subscription app AND a codex purchase?

[Lathe Biosas]

Yep. We all had a suspicion that this was going to happen.

 

There are alternatives to their App. I suggest using them.

[appiah4]

Wait..  Do you mean the community attitude towards 40K rules basically became "just pirate them bro."?

Edited September 28 by appiah4

[Antarius]

It's not really a new thing. The indexes (and earlier than that the "Ravening Hordes" and similar paper indexes that came with the core rule books back in the day) were only official until the codexes came out. It's terrible (if you ask me, others are bound to  disagree) that everything is intended to go through the app, but the paywall was always there, it was just a paper wall back in the day.

New Recruit and similar army building programs have most of the info built in, so I'd just use those if I didn't want to shell out for the codex (or if, like me, you simply don't want to use the app). Whether it's morally speaking piracy is up to the individual I guess, but it's been determined to not be piracy in the legal sense, so there's no problem there.

Edited September 28 by Antarius

[Halandaar]

Is this not exactly what happened in the prior 2 editions? The app had the army rules visible to app subscribers in 9th edition until the individual Codexes came out, at which point you needed the code from the physical book to unlock the rules for that army. Same in 10th; the indexes were freely viewable at edition launch, and then each subsequent Codex release locked the rules behind the code in the book.

 

I agree this is generally an unpleasant practice, but I really wish the YouTube economy didn't insist on being re-outraged by the same thing every 3 years.

Edited September 28 by Halandaar

[appiah4]

My understanding was that, no, there has not been game wide army rule access since the 8th edition Field Manuals?  If I am not interpreting it wrong this is the first time in in 9 years they made the army rules free for everyone, then put them behind a double paywall.  Personally I don't play the game and don't feel outraged or anything, but it sounds like a really obnoxious thing to do..

[Halandaar]

4 minutes ago, appiah4 said:

My understanding was that, no, there has not been game wide army rule access since the 8th edition Field Manuals?  If I am not interpreting it wrong this is the first time in in 9 years they made the army rules free for everyone, then put them behind a double paywall.  

 

Definitely incorrect; every army had an Index released as a free download at the start of 10th edition (see the article about the Space Marine Index from 2023 here) that was withdrawn when that army's Codex came out. 

 

When 9th Edition launched, the app made all the existing 8th Edition Codexes available to app subscribers; warcom article here, note the section at the bottom:

 

Quote

No New Codex For your Army yet? No Worries!
Subscribing to Warhammer 40,000: The App gives you the complete, updated rules for every current Warhammer 40,000 codex and expansion, from T’au Empire to Tyranids, Chaos Space Marines to Adepta Sororitas and beyond – so if you don’t play Space Marines or Necrons,** simply subscribe to access all your rules until your new codex arrives!

 

Again, those previously-included rules were locked behind purchase of physical Codexes as they came out.

[appiah4]

Ah, I see.  Thanks for the clarification.

[Jukkiz]

2 hours ago, appiah4 said:

Wait..  Do you mean the community attitude towards 40K rules basically became "just pirate them bro."?

With current pricing, i don´t doubt it. GW been shooting themselves in the foot yearly by now. Be it rising prices, advocating for more weird side of ideology, weird retcons, spitting at fans with idiotioc statements like"since first 10.000...." etc etc

Corporation is doing what it does, chasing that profit year of after year and them forcing people to use THEIR only app is another step on this rocky road. 

[Evil Eye]

3 hours ago, appiah4 said:

Wait..  Do you mean the community attitude towards 40K rules basically became "just pirate them bro."?

Why stop at rules? If it weren't for the magic of brrrr I would have given up on this hobby ages ago.

 

That aside, GW going full "don't you guys have phones?" with the rules is further confirmation I made the right choice by sticking with old editions. Forced app integration has no place in a tabletop wargame.

[Antarius]

I know I sound like an old man (when, in reality, I am only a semi-old man) but yeah, it is a travesty that you need to stand around looking at your phone while playing a game that's supposedly all about what's going on on the physical table right in front of you and interacting with your opponent, as well as enjoying all the terrain and miniatures. I know some people will disagree, but your attention really does suffer and no, you can't multi-task nearly as well as you think you can.

I mean, sure, you can look at your phone if you really want to but it's nice to have the choice not to. In that sense, I think paper codexes and a (printable) internet page with errata and points costs etc. is a good solution (personally, I do use an army builder program, but it's much nicer to have a printed army list in my experience).

[DemonGSides]

7 hours ago, Antarius said:

you can't multi-task nearly as well as you think you can.

 

If this is really the crux, burying your head in a book is just as difficult to deal with (from the opposing side), it's just a matter of where your attention is being placed outside of the specific game interaction that slows it down. If everyone just knew their rules, no references would need to be made regardless of where the rules reside (I know that's a big ask for such a game as 40k, but it's illustrative of the problem which isn't "electronic rules make people pay attention to their phone", it's "the rules are complex enough that referring to them is easier (and better) than just having a go at it".  I think rules complexity is a legitimate issue that isn't solved by medium of which rules are conveyed).

 

You just don't like the electronic nature of the rules, which is a fine opinion to have, but it's no worse than someone spending three times as long cross referencing the index of a codex or a rule book.  Paper rules aren't quicker or better, just a different avenue for the same issue of referencing.

 

Datacards are the real MVP (physical rules printed in front of you without needing to cross reference things), just wish there was a way to get them updated when changes do occur; StarCraft TMG has their cards as downloadables so you can just print it out and slap it on with some glue if you wanted to.  GW should do that when they make sweeping changes outside of points. 

 

 

Edited September 29 by DemonGSides

[Antarius]

In theory, you may well be right. In practice, though, once people are on their phones, they are on their phones. You see it with everything else too.

[Lathe Biosas]

38 minutes ago, Antarius said:

In theory, you may well be right. In practice, though, once people are on their phones, they are on their phones. You see it with everything else too.

 

I played a game of Combat Patrol last week. It was one of the worst games I've ever played.

 

My opponent stared at his phone, rolled dice, stared at his phone, removed models, stared at his phone, moved models, stared at his phone.... etc.

 

I come to game for social interaction. I got Zero on that day. Absolutely unfun.

 

This is why my TTRPG group bans phones from the game.

[Evil Eye]

One thing I will say on the matter, I think if your "accessible" beer and pretzels wargame is so complicated that it's borderline unplayable without a phone app then it is a failure as a wargame. Especially when the complexity doesn't really translate to actual depth; realistically modern 40K doesn't seem actually complex so much as like, "mechanically verbose". You have very long-winded rules and countless layers of redundancy to get an experience that actually has less varied outcomes and opportunities for interesting play than much simpler systems, including from GW's own past. Having a trillion different rules for allocating damage and far too many profiles for what once would have been one weapon in an armoury drastically increases the mental workload and cumbersome nature of the game whilst still offering far less actual mechanical interest than something as simple as difficult terrain rules or Initiative values.

[Antarius]

I've never been in the "GW writes bad rules" camp myself (except for HH3 and I guess 9th ed 40K), but I do think there is a real problem with unnecessary complexity in the recent iterations of 40K, especially complexity that does not add depth. I've enjoyed 11th so far, but I think that has a lot to do with just playing it as a fun game rather than necessarily taking care to play everything right. As always, age is a factor (even if for no other reason than having previous editions rumbling around in your skull can be confusing), but I do think it is a real problem.
That being said, I also think people tend to overstate the problem sometimes; I do think the core rules are quite solid and many of the ideas are fundamentally good. There's just too much bookkeeping for my tastes.

[appiah4]

Rules can be complex, comprehensive and long without requiring constant reference and tedious lawyering.  I can play Infinity N5 over beer and pretzels without referencing the rulebook, with just my own and my opponent's army list at hand.  40K as a game is just a total failure IMO.