Sculpting - it’s scary

[Brother Lutheriel]

Can someone point me to some good resources for learning the sculpting part of the hobby? I do plenty of kit bashing, but some of you guys are crushing it with the sculpting and I want to learn.
 

I’ve had enough modeling difficulties that I’ve stayed away from sculpting, but some research might help. Who are the experts?

[kabaakaba]

There is enough guides on yt, but you could ask @Inso here or on dakka. He is truly an expert with years of experience. And he could answer your questions when have some time. And his blog is a great starting point. I'm in the same boat right now and trying to build by fiat miniatures.

[space wolf]

I don't claim to be an expert, but I've been doing it for years now. Here are some of the most important things you need to know in order to get good at it.

 

1. Practice makes perfect: This should be obvious, but your work will get better the more you do it...JUST STICK WITH IT!

 

2. Tools Matter: I'd recommend size 0 "color shapers/clay shapers" they are to tools with silicone ends...they don't tend to stick to Green Stuff, etc. Making sculpting much easier.

 

3. Lubrication is Important: Even with Clay shapers, you want to keep your tools wet. Some people use Vasaline, others use oil, or water. You'll have to figure out whats right for you. Just make sure if you're using oil or Vasaline, a little goes a long way.

 

4. Patience is Key - Work in Stages: If you're doing something complicated, work in small parts at a time. You'll need to let every stage completely cure before you can continue. That is why people who do a lot of GS work, it takes them days to do one miniature. Because curing time is a huge factor

 

5. Heat and Gravity Can Be Your Friend or Your Enemy: When sculpting anything, you can set it in front of a space heater and it WILL cure faster. However, it gets even softer before it finishes curing, so ensure whatever you've sculpted has good contact so that it doesn't droop, while its in the "hot uncured stage." On that note, cloaks and the like: try to attach them to the model, and set the model up so the cape is going with gravity or is supported, as it will sag otherwise.

 

6. Different Putties have Different Properties: Green Stuff, is very pliable and stretchy, but doesn't smooth very well. Milliput is not pliable at all, but dries rock hard, and while uncured can be smoothed with water. Mixing 50/50 of both tends to get you the best of both worlds. Tamiya Quick type, is a good intermediate option, if you don't want to mix two putties together (although its less stretchy than GS) So decide what you are sculpting before you choose a putty. Are you sculpting hard details, like armor panels or filigree? probably want to use Quick Type or Miliput....Cloaks or Fur...probably GS. All the putties CAN be used to sculpt almost anything, but this is a good rule of thumb for a beginner. 

 

7. Partially Cured is Usually Easier to Work With: With most putties, you usually want them to cure for about 20-45 minutes before you start working with it. Especially Green Stuff. It will still be pliable, but it wont be nearly as sticky, and you can almost handle it with your bare hands and it wont leave fingerprints. This is especially useful for capes and the like. Mix up a fresh batch, let it sit for 40 min. Then roll it out thin, then cut it to shape, and you should be able to gently handle it, and put it in place without have to worry too much about it stretching or warping....IF YOU'RE GENTLE!

 

I hope that helps. If you have any additional questions, feel free to message me. If anyone is interested I can put together a more in depth guide...? You all let me know.

Edited September 29 by space wolf

[kabaakaba]

Be careful with cheap putty like JAS. It's created to turn you off from sculpting. I'm also in the start of my sculpting way and I can add that tools polished to the mirror state with 4000 grits sandpaper work better than one you can get from sellers. 

I also completely agree with all the points. I used Tamiya and absolutely happy with it. Now working on my 3rd sculp. And repeating is a key. Small increments and lots and lots of patience.

Edited September 29 by kabaakaba

[Lathe Biosas]

I suggest sculpting small things first.

 

Like mushrooms, snails, berets, rocks. It sounds stupid, but trying to jump in on the deep end doesn't end well.

[Brother Lutheriel]

@space wolf dude, thanks for that answer. Great info. I only have one additional question. Could you give me a list of all the basic tools I’ll need? Maybe you already included everything, but I don’t know what I don’t know yet. 
 

You should consider doing a blog post for beginners because that was a lot of good info.

[space wolf]

@Brother Lutheriel ok, give me a day or so, and ill post pictures up for you so you can see what i use...I'll probably turn it into an article at some point :D

[Evil Eye]

On material choice, Milliput is very nifty stuff IF you mix it with Greenstuff or similar alternatives (IIRC the original recipe is discontinued now). Greenstuff and Milliput combined gives you a really nice detail-retentive and sandable/carvable surface when cured but the nice pliability of Greenstuff whilst sculpting, and also reduces brittleness a bit. Pure Greenstuff tends to soften on edges as it cures and can't be sanded, and pure Milliput is hell to work with.

 

Tamiya Quick-Type is my go-to for most sculpting work, as it's basically got the properties of GS+MP as a ready-made putty, and it cures really nice and quickly. Smooth-type is also very good, and is much the same except with a longer cure time (which can be advantageous) and slightly softer final finish, albeit nowhere near Greenstuff and still perfectly sandable. Apoxie Sculpt is very good, especially when combined with Greenstuff, but is very expensive and hard to find, at least in the UK.

 

Avoid plumber's putty! The legendary Modern Synthesist used it once for one of his earliest forays into sculpting (his amazing Old One Eye, "Hel") and it smells, is hard to work with and also gets very hot as it cures.

 

One extra thing I will mention; if you're sculpting something from scratch rather than sculpting onto an existing model, polymer clay like Super Sculpey, CosClay and Fimo are fantastic to work with. There's no "working time" because they only set when you bake them, and they're generally very nice to work with. Obviously it's no good for sculpting detail onto a plastic part because it needs to go into the oven, but for original sculpts it's honestly a very good option. Trish Morrison of former GW fame used it for all her models until she retired from the studio, and still sculpts in it for independent casters to this day.

 

On that note, do check out Trish's Instagram; she does all sorts of cool behind-the-scenes posts on how she actually sculpted a lot of her minis for GW and has plenty of really nifty advice and tips which are applicable to epoxy putty or polymer clay. Her post on how she used brass sheet to do wings is one of my favourites!

 

Lastly I'd HIGHLY recommend Nivea hand cream (or clones) for lubricating tools; Vaseline will work but it needs to be washed off before painting or your paint won't stick, whilst Nivea basically disappears after it dries and leaves no residue.

[space wolf]

1 hour ago, Evil Eye said:

Lastly I'd HIGHLY recommend Nivea hand cream (or clones) for lubricating tools; Vaseline will work but it needs to be washed off before painting or your paint won't stick, whilst Nivea basically disappears after it dries and leaves no residue.

 

Thats a good tip! That is new to me...may be gross, but i typically lick the back of my hand and wet my tools that way. Seems to keep everything just moist enough. Sorry if that is gross. Sometimes thats the way it goes with art.

[kabaakaba]

Oh, wow, looks like we have many sculptors here! Would be cool if you guys share some advice for scratch sculpting

Just now, space wolf said:

 

Thats a good tip! That is new to me...may be gross, but i typically lick the back of my hand and wet my tools that way. Seems to keep everything just moist enough. Sorry if that is gross. Sometimes thats the way it goes with art.

I just lick tool tip 

[space wolf]

@kabaakaba i dont do that cuz im paranoid about ingesting small amounts of epoxy putty....but thats probably not any more dangerous than what i do.

Edited October 1 by space wolf

[WBRBloom]

Just to add a bit of knowledge here, ProCreate putty is was the go-to solution for professional sculptors, but was discontinued. It is good for fine details and is air curing. The interwebs say that a very good alternative is simply creating 'grey-stuff' (50:50 mix of greenstuff and super fine Milliput).

 

@Evil Eye Kneadatite, the original Greenstuff, was indeed discontinued last year. Of course, one can get knock-offs or similar products.

 

Blue Stuff moulding material, called Oyumaru and originating from Japan, is a very good way to create copies of details that you want to use in a lot of miniatures, such as chains, skulls or knives, for example. It works best as single side moulds, i.e. stuff that will be stuck on a surface, rather than 3d items, but some people have managed to create full moulds to recreate most of the details.

 

It can be melted together by submerging it in hot (not boiling) water, and can be used indefinitely to create moulds. I use this to create copies of dreadnought sarcophagi fronts, and sticking them on CSM bases between rubble.  

 

 

 

[space wolf]

Ok, so here is a list of my tools: 

 

 

First up, Color Shapers, sometimes called Clay Shapers. You can get them in many sizes, but I generally prefer the size 0. You can also get them stiffer or more supple. I like the stiff ones, but they are more expensive.

 

 

The humble hobby knife. I actually use a medical scalpel as replacement blades are super cheap.

 

 

Dental Tools: not absolutely necessary, but they have their uses...I typically use this one for making small holes for chainmail and the like.

 

 

The hobby Awl. (Search "Pottery Needle") This bad boy is a real workhorse, you need a generalized tool, between your hobby knife, and this guy, you can create most things. It works for smoothing, shaping, and more. Just make sure you keep it lubricated, or putty will stick to it, unlike the colorshapers.

 

 

Hope that helps!

 

@kabaakaba As for scratch sculpting, it really depends on what we are talking about. Are we talking about full miniatures? You're best bet is to make a small armature out of pretty stiff wire, this will give the putty something to stick to. Then bulk it out to get a general shape of what you want. Once that is dry, then you put on another layer and this time, go with the general details, (muscle, clothes, etc.) Once you have those squared away, then its just a matter of sculpting the small individual details...

 

Edited October 1 by space wolf
added paragraph

[kabaakaba]

 

1 hour ago, space wolf said:

Ok, so here is a list of my tools: 

 

 

First up, Color Shapers, sometimes called Clay Shapers. You can get them in many sizes, but I generally prefer the size 0. You can also get them stiffer or more supple. I like the stiff ones, but they are more expensive.

 

 

The humble hobby knife. I actually use a medical scalpel as replacement blades are super cheap.

 

 

Dental Tools: not absolutely necessary, but they have their uses...I typically use this one for making small holes for chainmail and the like.

 

 

The hobby Awl. (Search "Pottery Needle") This bad boy is a real workhorse, you need a generalized tool, between your hobby knife, and this guy, you can create most things. It works for smoothing, shaping, and more. Just make sure you keep it lubricated, or putty will stick to it, unlike the colorshapers.

 

 

Hope that helps!

 

@kabaakaba As for scratch sculpting, it really depends on what we are talking about. Are we talking about full miniatures? You're best bet is to make a small armature out of pretty stiff wire, this will give the putty something to stick to. Then bulk it out to get a general shape of what you want. Once that is dry, then you put on another layer and this time, go with the general details, (muscle, clothes, etc.) Once you have those squared away, then its just a matter of sculpting the small individual details...

 

 

I'm already quite familiar with the process, but some difficulties arise.

 

I'm working on few minis, or properly would be say test minis for tow. For example here is  squig , it's bulk is done and now I need to add 'skin' with all the details like horns scales eyes.

Spoiler

 

I have some issues with adding next layer of putty both white and Tamiya quick. Cause it's slides when I shape it. Any suggestions?

 

I would be happy to share goblins, but bnc don't like non 4

0k things

 

Edited October 1 by kabaakaba

[Brother Lutheriel]

You guys are a wealth of helpful knowledge! Thanks again for ALL of the input. Let me just read this thread 6 more times and get started!

[kabaakaba]

15 minutes ago, Brother Lutheriel said:

You guys are a wealth of helpful knowledge! Thanks again for ALL of the input. Let me just read this thread 6 more times and get started!

Nonono! You read it wrong! Read it once and repeat sculpting process 6 more times

 

I also want to add, For small details like eyes and teeth, sewing needles work well. 

It would be great to have separate thread (this one) for sculpting chat...

Edited October 1 by kabaakaba

[space wolf]

@kabaakaba honestly, i would suggest using a fresh batch of 50/50 miliput and green stuff. Make sure that its fresh so that its very sticky. Get an even coat around the shape, then let it cure for a bit...then put in the wrinkles and use a brush and water to smooth it out....see if that works

[kabaakaba]

2 hours ago, space wolf said:

@kabaakaba honestly, i would suggest using a fresh batch of 50/50 miliput and green stuff. Make sure that its fresh so that its very sticky. Get an even coat around the shape, then let it cure for a bit...then put in the wrinkles and use a brush and water to smooth it out....see if that works

There is no greenstuff available for adequate money

[space wolf]

@kabaakaba You make a valid point...Tamiya Quicktype will probably work in that regard.  Something to pay attention to is the status of Green Stuff. There is a company out there that is working to get GS production back online. Some limited info can be found here:

 

https://kneadatite.com/

[kabaakaba]

2 hours ago, space wolf said:

@kabaakaba You make a valid point...Tamiya Quicktype will probably work in that regard.  Something to pay attention to is the status of Green Stuff. There is a company out there that is working to get GS production back online. Some limited info can be found here:

 

https://kneadatite.com/

I have pretty good white putty for bulking bodies(which is local artistic putty for bigger scale) and happy with quick type for  small details and grots. Later sells here for €20 per 100g including delivery. Greenstuff even when it wasn't oop was €50+ per 50g. 

 

Regarding TQT slides over previous layer, find solution. Now I just rough surface with 200 grits sandpaper and it's stick just fine.

 

Edited October 2 by kabaakaba

[kabaakaba]

@Brother Lutherieldon't forget to share your sculpts here 

[Brother Lutheriel]

I will! The real trick will be if anyone else can tell what I’ve sculpted!

[space wolf]

Well, don't be shy. Even if we can't tell, if you let us see your progress, we might be able to give very specific advice 

[Brother Lutheriel]

UPDATE:

 

I ordered tools on Amazon. Should be here by the end of the week. 
 

Also, this whole time I’ve actually been asking myself, “what do I even want to sculpt?” Other than it just being useful when you’re kitbashing I wasn’t even sure what I wanted to try. Well, here is my beginner friendly list of ideas:

 

1. Snakes for my Snakebite Orks. This is possibly the easiest thing to sculpt because we all learned how in preschool. But it’s always bugged me that my Snakebites don’t have more snakes, because in the lore they take extra snakes with them when they travel, “just in case there aren’t enough where they are going.” And it’ll help me get my feet wet at sculpting. 
 

2. Hoods and tabards for my Dark Angels!

 

3. Hoods, tabards, and some chainmail for my Fallen Dark Angels. (I have some Horus Heresy legionaries equipped to proxy as a CSM Legionnaire Squad).

 

4. Lastly, I was thinking about making either some banners, or extra armor plating for certain vehicles. (Especially Ork vehicles.)

 

Anyway, your ideas are appreciated to add to my list. Or input on my current list.  

[WBRBloom]

So, after I rummaging through my documents, I found some tutorial PDFs on sculpting, possibly even from B&C back from 2007 (no idea if correct though) that has some stuff that you are looking for, @Brother Lutheriel.

 

With the permission of the Admins, can I upload it here? In addition, I also found this. I THINK it's an Inquisitor that was the 'collective' child of a collaboration, that some people sculpted back in the day here at B&C, but correct me if I'm wrong: