40k September & Marine Stats Update

[Interrogator Stobz]

54 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

Like I mentioned above with IA, they didn't keep it consistent inside the same army, never mind across multiple.

Really inconsistent with SM bolt weapons. Some have pistols S5 with guns S4, some both S5, Storm bolters remain S4.

I can see non Astartes keeping S4,  they usually carry smaller versions. But SM guns and ammo should match.

S5 AP-1 across the board would be proper. 

Edited 13 hours ago by Interrogator Stobz

[Orange Knight]

8 minutes ago, redmapa said:

 

I mean thats exactly the sort of treatment that they have now

 

Not quite.

The more "divergent" chapters have Index rules, not codex rules.
The same care and attention has clearly not been taken.

On top of this the full rules, detachments, etc, etc won't come for some time and when they finally do, people will need to buy additional supplement books.

Edited 13 hours ago by Orange Knight

[brother_b]

10% average rise in points cost but that seems a fair swap for the upgrades to SM. 
 

it does boggle the mind that some weapons will get updated or some units updated while others are ignored. I think that has more to do with the huge amount of units than something intentionally done by GW. 
 

And then I think to myself, but wait a moment I’ve got a bunch of people working on this shouldn’t they be aware of all the necessary changes for similar units across different armies?

 

Who knows?

[redmapa]

2 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

Not quite.

The more "divergent" chapters have Index rules, not codex rules.
The same care and attention has clearly not been taken.

On top of this the full rules, detachments, etc won't come for some time and when they do people will need to buy additional supplement books.

 

And you think the same care is going to be given with their full supplement? I dont know about Blood Angels but Im pretty sure the BT supplement last edition was very flavorful but so bad in terms of rules that everyone was just running Gladius. What you are asking is that everyone gets the same attention and thats not going to happen, the divergent chapters did get the same treatment and in the case of DA and SW they were given the same amount of care, BA and BT were not, thats going to be the case with their full supplements as well.

[01RTB01]

3 hours ago, Marshal Loss said:

3W Noise Marines are cool and feel appropriate for their size and chonk, but Sonic Blasters staying S5 when all of the game's bolt weaponry went up and their main targets gained toughness doesn't feel good at all. Combined with the points increase I think they've taken a pretty hefty hit. 

 

Which combined with the repeated beatings that defilers got, push us into cc focused armies. It's very frustrating to say the least.

 

Anything that shoots vaguely well for orks got a points hike and yet again, paying for the sins of the tournament players. I wasn't taking big meks or shokk attack guns due to points. They're now jacked up more so it's a definite nope. 

[Orange Knight]

2 minutes ago, redmapa said:

 

And you think the same care is going to be given with their full supplement? I dont know about Blood Angels but Im pretty sure the BT supplement last edition was very flavorful but so bad in terms of rules that everyone was just running Gladius. What you are asking is that everyone gets the same attention and thats not going to happen, the divergent chapters did get the same treatment and in the case of DA and SW they were given the same amount of care, BA and BT were not, thats going to be the case with their full supplements as well.

 

Care and attention doesn't just mean power. It means flavour, variety, lore, and so on.

I agree that in terms of pure balance, GW can drop the ball.

[Lathe Biosas]

Whoo Hoo! The Dark Angels got to keep their Jetfighter!

 

 

[Brother Lutheriel]

Maybe I wasn’t watching closely enough, but I expected stuff to get even more expensive than this. Obviously it all adds up, but it doesn’t feel like it was that big of a jump per unit. 
 

What I am sad about is some of the brand new detachments disappearing. Interrogation Conclave? I didn’t even think it was that OP.    

[Gree]

I'm not sure what people expected for Chaos. This was always going to be a bandaid for Chaos factions. Wait for the Codex.

 

Anyway, this is nothing new. GW has done durability increases for Marines before. New codices simply increased in lethality. When Marines got 2W as a baseline, 2D and 3D weapons became the new standard for listbuilding.

 

 

[Mogger351]

4 minutes ago, Gree said:

I'm not sure what people expected for Chaos. This was always going to be a bandaid for Chaos factions. Wait for the Codex.

 

Anyway, this is nothing new. GW has done durability increases for Marines before. New codices simply increased in lethality. When Marines got 2W as a baseline, 2D and 3D weapons became the new standard for listbuilding.

 

 

I think the pessimist in us knew they'd mess it up, the optimist in a lot of people when they said "these adjustments are coming to the other marines" expected more than bolter, chainswords and some T values when some of the weapons are identical and mysteriously not to match.

 

Being honest I think we all know it's so when the chaos marine books come round the marketing team can do a 3 week hype window of "WE FIXED YOUR WEAPONS!"

[gaurdian31]

For Chaos it could be worse, it could be like when loyalists all went to two wounds and we were stuck with just one when all they had to do was put out an FAQ to state CSM had two wounds. Still no great, but could be worse.

[Lathe Biosas]

1 hour ago, Brother Lutheriel said:

Maybe I wasn’t watching closely enough, but I expected stuff to get even more expensive than this. Obviously it all adds up, but it doesn’t feel like it was that big of a jump per unit. 
 

What I am sad about is some of the brand new detachments disappearing. Interrogation Conclave? I didn’t even think it was that OP.    

 

Maybe it will come back if/when we get a real codex... or maybe there will be a random update.

[Kommisar_K]

Hmmm. I'm almost glad to see armies get a little bit smaller again. In a way. 

 

I see legends are now included so that's good.

[HeadlessCross]

5 hours ago, Marshal Loss said:

3W Noise Marines are cool and feel appropriate for their size and chonk, but Sonic Blasters staying S5 when all of the game's bolt weaponry went up and their main targets gained toughness doesn't feel good at all. Combined with the points increase I think they've taken a pretty hefty hit. 

They already ignore cover and are D2, I think you'll be just fine. 

2 hours ago, 01RTB01 said:

Anything that shoots vaguely well for orks got a points hike and yet again, paying for the sins of the tournament players. I wasn't taking big meks or shokk attack guns due to points. They're now jacked up more so it's a definite nope. 

You weren't taking overly good shooting units because you didn't feel like it, and are mad that the overly good shooting units went up in points? 

 

What?

[Mogger351]

To distract a little, worth noting pre-emptively that it's looking like sisters of battle won't be getting a toughness bump based off sisters of silence, but should get the bolters (One day).

[Orange Knight]

2 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

To distract a little, worth noting pre-emptively that it's looking like sisters of battle won't be getting a toughness bump based off sisters of silence, but should get the bolters (One day).

 

I don't know how I would handle Sisters of Battles.

 

I also wouldn't automatically give them Str5 Bolters. Aren't their variants the smaller, Goodwyn pattern? That could be a reason to keep them at Str4.

 

I have no issue with the Str rising to 5 btw. 

[Orange Knight]

43 minutes ago, Kommisar_K said:

I see legends are now included so that's good.

 

Speaking of Legends, the Kratos tank looks absolutely brilliant in terms of rules.

 

Might be putting that bad boy on the table!

[Subtleknife]

Agreed. Sisters should not be getting marine str5 bolters imo. 

[Mogger351]

1 hour ago, Orange Knight said:

 

I don't know how I would handle Sisters of Battles.

 

I also wouldn't automatically give them Str5 Bolters. Aren't their variants the smaller, Goodwyn pattern? That could be a reason to keep them at Str4.

 

I have no issue with the Str rising to 5 btw. 

 

41 minutes ago, Subtleknife said:

Agreed. Sisters should not be getting marine str5 bolters imo. 

Well the sisters of silence bolters are S5 ap-1 d1 so....

[jaxom]

Overall, I think lethality is down across the board? I think the major exception is Marine and Custodes bolt weapons into GEQ and Plague Marines?

[Orange Knight]

7 minutes ago, Mogger351 said:

 

Well the sisters of silence bolters are S5 ap-1 d1 so....

 

Sisters of Silence are more elite and special than Sisters of Battle.

[Mogger351]

14 minutes ago, Orange Knight said:

 

Sisters of Silence are more elite and special than Sisters of Battle.

Ok, but it's literally simply named a "boltgun" and they're the same size and level of humanity as a sister of battle. So I fail to see why they'd magically get a marine bolter and a sister wouldn't?

Edited 8 hours ago by Mogger351

[Lathe Biosas]

How's the Stormbolter on the Sisters Rhino vs the Space Marine Rhino?

Edited 8 hours ago by Lathe Biosas

[Kommisar_K]

18 minutes ago, jaxom said:

Overall, I think lethality is down across the board? I think the major exception is Marine and Custodes bolt weapons into GEQ and Plague Marines?

 

Ey I won't complain if we see a little more durability in armies all around. It's fun to exchange fire for a couple rounds before the casualty count really starts going up. Poor DG might be worthy of a little pity but if everything starts going up in toughness GW will end up having to rework the stat altogether. 

 

Is there a roadmap yet for codexes besides, what, the Custodes and Tau?

[Focslain]

4 minutes ago, Lathe Biosas said:

How's the Stormbolter on the Rhino?

Same as the ones on the terminators, so 24" A2 RF2, S5 Ap -1 dmg 1, kind of hoping the HB gets updated in the guard to match the SM one. Getting RF2 will make my HB russes that much more better.