looking for some help in coming back from 9th edition

[Dusktiger]

i'm looking into trying 11th edition, and wanted to do so with the fancy pants dark angels deathwing box set that same out in...10th? edition i think.  i have some wiggle room cause i never built or painted it, but im not sure where to start for what the meta in 11th is.

 

this is a list of what i have to work with so far, and i was thinking of starting with a 1000pt list, and if i like 11th, build up to a 2000pt list.

 

Belial

 

a terminator captain

 

a terminator librarian.

 

3x squads of 5 terminator squads, with options for 2x cyclone launchers, 3x assault cannons, 2x plasma cannons for heavy options.

 

2x squads of 5 deathwing knights, 1 unit is swords, the other is maces.

 

1 brutalis dreadnought with the multi melta and talons.

 

3x watchers in the dark

 

if anyone could give some advice on list ideas, and even detachment choices, that'd be great

[Lathe Biosas]

Give us a weekend to dig through the new Codex and we'll give you some advice.

 

(I'm actively trying to build a Deathwing force too).

[Interrogator Stobz]

Welcome back Brother!

 

I can't help one bit with the new rules, I also haven't played since 9th 

[Tacitus]

6 hours ago, Dusktiger said:

i'm looking into trying 11th edition, and wanted to do so with the fancy pants dark angels deathwing box set that same out in...10th? edition i think.  i have some wiggle room cause i never built or painted it, but im not sure where to start for what the meta in 11th is.

 

this is a list of what i have to work with so far, and i was thinking of starting with a 1000pt list, and if i like 11th, build up to a 2000pt list.

 

Belial

 

a terminator captain

 

a terminator librarian.

 

3x squads of 5 terminator squads, with options for 2x cyclone launchers, 3x assault cannons, 2x plasma cannons for heavy options.

 

2x squads of 5 deathwing knights, 1 unit is swords, the other is maces.

 

1 brutalis dreadnought with the multi melta and talons.

 

3x watchers in the dark

 

if anyone could give some advice on list ideas, and even detachment choices, that'd be great

The codex doesn't drop until this weekend I think so we won't have the meta for a while even after that.  We've seen leaks, but its different when everyone has the book and a couple weeks to get creative.  Is there going to be a phase where everyone uses Pskyers to buff units and Chaplains to cancel out the battle shock for the critical psychic fumbles?  Probably not, but maybe.  Will it turn into everyone playing Blood Angels with a Captain leading every unit so every unit gets to pick and choose their doctrine every turn?  Maybe. 

 

I expect Belial to get rewritten just a SMIDGE when the new Codex Drops and he gets his new datasheet.  At the very least they'll give him 11th Stats and prices.  I Don't expect any rewrite to make him good.

 

WYSIWYG is currently "dead".  Not required.  A Ballistus Dread is a Ballistus Dread.  Talons or Fists, Heavy Bolters or Multimeltas - you don't have to match.  Same with Terminator Heavy Weapons and knight swords or maces. 

 

If you want to do Terminator Heavy, I'd take a look at Terminator Ancient(s).  Objective Secured, and -1 to Wound from higher S weapons - two really good abilities for a Terminator Support. 

[Dusktiger]

so my local FLGS has a sale today, so i beefed up my collection.  now i have the following to work with:

 

Lionel

Belial

Terminator Captain

Terminator Ancient (as per @Tacitus's suggestion)

Terminator Librarian

 

5x DWK with maces

5x DWK with swords

4x squads of 5 DWT

 

Brutalis Dreadnought

 

for the DWT, i'm thinking of breaking them down in the following way so i can use them as 4x5, or 2x10, and give me some variation in wargear choices for the sergeant and Heavy guys:

squad 1:

1 SB/PF

2 SB/CF

1 Hvy w/ Cyclone/PF

Sgt w/ Sword

 

squad 2:

1 SB/PF

2 SB/CF

1 Hvy w/ Cyclone/PF

Sgt w/ PF

 

squad 3:

1 SB/PF

2 SB/CF

1 Hvy w/ Plasma/PF

Sgt w/ Sword

 

squad 1:

1 SB/PF

2 SB/CF

1 Hvy w/ Plasma/PF

Sgt w/ PF

[Tacitus]

The next thing you'll probably want to do is pick your Detachment(s).  You could do Wrath of the Rock (from Codex DA) and Terminator Storm Force (from Codex:SM) which really leans into the Terminator Keyword.  Or you could do Either with something else if you want to fill out with Non-Terminator units. 

[Dusktiger]

i'm probably gonna lean into pure deathwing for now, to make use of what i already own. i was looking into the Wrath of the Rock detatchment, it does look interesting, and i came up with an initial list along with some enhancements from that one.  so far, my list is looking like this:

 

Spoiler

+==========================================

Adeptus Astartes (Codex) · Dark Angels

Wrath of the Rock (3DP)

Force Disposition: Take and Hold

2000 / 2000 pts · 9 units

+==========================================

----Attached Unit A---------------------

Belial

↳ Attached to:

Deathwing Terminator Squad

1x Deathwing Sergeant - Power Weapon

3x Deathwing Terminator w/ Power Fist

4x Deathwing Terminator w/ Chainfist

2x Deathwing Terminator w/ Plasma Cannon

Wargear: Watcher in the Dark

 

----Attached Unit B---------------------

Captain in Terminator Armour

Enhancement: Ancient Weapons (+20)

Weapons: Storm Bolter, Relic Weapon

 

Ancient in Terminator Armour

Enhancement: Tempered in Battle (Aura) (+10)

↳ Attached to:

 

Deathwing Terminator Squad

1x Deathwing Sergeant w/ Power Weapon

3x Deathwing Terminator w/ Power Fist

4x Deathwing Terminator w/ Chainfist

2x Deathwing Terminator w/ Cyclone Missile Launcher

Wargear: Watcher in the Dark

 

----Attached Unit C ---------------------

Librarian in Terminator Armour

Enhancement: Deathwing Assault (+15)

↳ Attached to:

Deathwing Knights

4x Deathwing Knight w/ Mace of Absolution

1x Knight Master w/ Great Weapon of the Unforgiven

Wargear: Watcher in the Dark

 

── UNATTACHED CHARACTERS ───────

Lion El'Jonson [WARLORD]

 

── VEHICLES ────────────────────

Brutalis Dreadnought

Weapons: Twin Icarus Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Twin Multi-melta, Brutalis Talons

 

Total: 2000 pts

 

[Lathe Biosas]

Have you thought about including a faster moving element to your force, maybe a Land Speeder or Storm Speeder?

 

 

[Tacitus]

4 hours ago, Dusktiger said:

i'm probably gonna lean into pure deathwing for now, to make use of what i already own. i was looking into the Wrath of the Rock detatchment, it does look interesting, and i came up with an initial list along with some enhancements from that one.  so far, my list is looking like this:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

+==========================================

Adeptus Astartes (Codex) · Dark Angels

Wrath of the Rock (3DP)

Force Disposition: Take and Hold

2000 / 2000 pts · 9 units

+==========================================

----Attached Unit A---------------------

Belial

↳ Attached to:

Deathwing Terminator Squad

1x Deathwing Sergeant - Power Weapon

3x Deathwing Terminator w/ Power Fist

4x Deathwing Terminator w/ Chainfist

2x Deathwing Terminator w/ Plasma Cannon

Wargear: Watcher in the Dark

 

----Attached Unit B---------------------

Captain in Terminator Armour

Enhancement: Ancient Weapons (+20)

Weapons: Storm Bolter, Relic Weapon

 

Ancient in Terminator Armour

Enhancement: Tempered in Battle (Aura) (+10)

↳ Attached to:

 

Deathwing Terminator Squad

1x Deathwing Sergeant w/ Power Weapon

3x Deathwing Terminator w/ Power Fist

4x Deathwing Terminator w/ Chainfist

2x Deathwing Terminator w/ Cyclone Missile Launcher

Wargear: Watcher in the Dark

 

----Attached Unit C ---------------------

Librarian in Terminator Armour

Enhancement: Deathwing Assault (+15)

↳ Attached to:

Deathwing Knights

4x Deathwing Knight w/ Mace of Absolution

1x Knight Master w/ Great Weapon of the Unforgiven

Wargear: Watcher in the Dark

 

── UNATTACHED CHARACTERS ───────

Lion El'Jonson [WARLORD]

 

── VEHICLES ────────────────────

Brutalis Dreadnought

Weapons: Twin Icarus Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Twin Multi-melta, Brutalis Talons

 

Total: 2000 pts

 

I figured you would as you already have that, and you just bought more Deathwing.  Eventually I think you're going to want to expand into something else though because Deathwing is generally very slow and plodding.  I already play UM as well, so my DA tend to be Ravenwing and Deathwing mix with little to no Greenwing.   Once you get your new SM Codex and your DA Supplement (If you don't already have it) I'd start looking at mixing in at least some Ravenwing Bikes.  There is/was a Det all about mixing Ravewing and Deathwing.  Looks like it was Lion's Blade Task Force and its not a thing anymore.  But Wrath of the Rock is still both (and more technically).  

 

Also your list looks like it might not be correct.  Wrath of the Rock is 2 Detachment Points which should leave you 1DP at 2K points for a second Det to add - like the Terminator Storm Force.  So Wrath of the Rock gives your Terminators (And Bikes etc when you get them) -1 to be wounded if S > T as a Det rule while the Terminator Storm Force gives your Terminators (And only Terminators) +1 to charge rolls (Delicious on those DWK and) -1D when they're shot/punched at as a 2CP Stratagem making them extremely sturdy. 

[Dusktiger]

Oh, does that mean detachments in the new edition dont require you to assign a unit to one detachment? They gain the rules from multiple ones so long as they fit the unit type criteria?

[Lathe Biosas]

Detachments affect your entire army.

 

Check your keywords to see if a Detachment grants bonuses or not.

 

As your almost (but not 100%) all Deathwing list would benefit from Terminator Storm.

[Dusktiger]

if i added in some ravenwing elements, i could probably modify it to something like this:

 

Spoiler

+==========================================
Adeptus Astartes (Codex) · Dark Angels
Wrath of the Rock (2DP) + Stormlance Task Force (1DP)
Force Disposition: Take and Hold
2000 / 2000 pts · 13 units
+==========================================

── ATTACHED CHARACTERS ─────────
----Attached Unit A---------------------
Belial
↳ Attached to:

Deathwing Terminator Squad
1x Deathwing Sergeant
1x Deathwing Terminator
2x Deathwing Terminator w/ Chainfist
1x Deathwing Terminator w/ Plasma Cannon
Wargear: Watcher in the Dark

 

----Attached Unit B---------------------
Captain in Terminator Armour

Ancient in Terminator Armour
Enhancement: Tempered in Battle (Aura)
↳ Attached to:

Deathwing Terminator Squad
1x Deathwing Sergeant
1x Deathwing Terminator
2x Deathwing Terminator w/ Chainfist
1x Deathwing Terminator w/ Cyclone Missile Launcher
Wargear: Watcher in the Dark

 

----Attached Unit C---------------------
Librarian in Terminator Armour
Enhancement: Deathwing Assault
↳ Attached to:

Deathwing Knights
4x Deathwing Knight Mace of Absolution
1x Knight Master Great Weapon of the Unforgiven
Wargear: Watcher in the Dark

 

----Attached Unit D---------------------
Ravenwing Command Squad
1x Ravenwing Ancient w/ Plasma Talon
1x Ravenwing Apothecary w/ Plasma Talon
1x Ravenwing Champion w/ Grenade Launcher
↳ Attached to:

Ravenwing Black Knights
1x Ravenwing Huntmaster w/ Plasma Talon
1x Ravenwing Black Knight w/ Plasma Talon
1x Ravenwing Black Knight w/ Grenade Launcher

 

── UNATTACHED CHARACTERS ───────
Lion El'Jonson [WARLORD]

 

── VEHICLES ────────────────────
Brutalis Dreadnought
Weapons: Twin Icarus Ironhail Heavy Stubber, Twin Multi-melta, Brutalis Talons

 

Land Speeder
Weapons: Multi-melta, Stormfury Missile Launcher, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Armoured Impact

 

Land Speeder
Weapons: Multi-melta, Stormfury Missile Launcher, Onslaught Gatling Cannon, Armoured Impact

 

Total: 2000 pts

 

[Lathe Biosas]

I like that list better. I just question how you are going to play with the Lion.

 

Are you going to give him a Terminator escort? If he's alone, he's quite the target.

 

He's also not Deathwing or Ravenwing, so he's not usable for stuff that requires those Keywords. 

[Dusktiger]

That i have no idea. He's cool, and seems like another tough thing like a dread to have on the table. Plus from reading army lists from tourneys, it seems like hes often included, so ill have to find out what he can do for me, and strategize accordingly, I guess. Right now im just at the assemble and priming stage of all this, so i havent really gone into stats and plans, etc. As I just wanna get the minis built so I can actually out the ideas into practice 

[Tacitus]

16 hours ago, Lathe Biosas said:

I like that list better. I just question how you are going to play with the Lion.

 

Are you going to give him a Terminator escort? If he's alone, he's quite the target.

 

He's also not Deathwing or Ravenwing, so he's not usable for stuff that requires those Keywords. 

The Lion is definitely tuned to have a Terminator Escort.  He can fade and re-pop, while his Terminator Escort can do the same with Gunship Extraction.