Alternative style for LR Punisher gun?

[Evil Eye]

I recently nabbed a Russ from a local hobby shop to use with my 4E Traitor Guard project. I'm not sure which variant to build, but I'm gravitating towards the Punisher (VDR or a simple backport will be needed as it wasn't introduced until 5th). However whilst I really like the idea of a rotary cannon as the main gun, the style of the giant minigun on the base kit is not to my taste.

 

I could do a very simple conversion and graft on a Contemptor's Kheres assault cannon in its place but I am also pondering designing and printing a whole new gun. I was thinking a large 1860s Gatling gun would be a cool direction to take, but an enormous water cooled Maxim style gun would be nifty too. Unless anyone has any other ideas?

[Griefbringer]

Personally, I am not particularly fond of the Leman Russ Punisher concept (sticking a short-ranged low-caliber gun on a tank), but I have to admit that Traitor Guard tanks forces certainly benefit from having wackier looking weapons than loyalists.

 

That said, I think the gun on the official model does not really match that theme well, having rather long and think barrels for such a weapon - plus there being only six barrels. If I had to scratch-build my own version, I would probably go for two gatling-style weapons (with 6+ barrels each) side-by-side on the turret front, if the space allows. Essentially something like the twin-linked assault cannon on the good old Baal predator (actually, I might have such assault guns somewhere in my bits box).

 

If you think twin-linked is not enough, you could also try a quad-mount (2 x 2 set-up) but that might end up looking too busy and there might not be enough space to fit it conveniently.

[WBRBloom]

Are you looking to go for accuracy and lore specific, or you're looking for rule of cool and absurdity?

 

Because I was thinking that you can go for a turret mounted Kai Gun 

[Evil Eye]

1 hour ago, Griefbringer said:

Personally, I am not particularly fond of the Leman Russ Punisher concept (sticking a short-ranged low-caliber gun on a tank), but I have to admit that Traitor Guard tanks forces certainly benefit from having wackier looking weapons than loyalists.

 

That said, I think the gun on the official model does not really match that theme well, having rather long and think barrels for such a weapon - plus there being only six barrels. If I had to scratch-build my own version, I would probably go for two gatling-style weapons (with 6+ barrels each) side-by-side on the turret front, if the space allows. Essentially something like the twin-linked assault cannon on the good old Baal predator (actually, I might have such assault guns somewhere in my bits box).

 

If you think twin-linked is not enough, you could also try a quad-mount (2 x 2 set-up) but that might end up looking too busy and there might not be enough space to fit it conveniently.

Twin linked assault cannons would be a good look! And I do have two leftover Contemptor assault cannons so I could do that even without printing. Need to do a size comparison.

 

Personally I like the Punisher conceptually, especially with the perpetual interwar "let's throw mud at the wall and see what sticks" design philosophy of Imperial tanks (and having the hull and sponson guns for dealing with armour), but I do agree the plastic gun is far too big and long (each barrel is autocannon bore!) and also very oversimplified, looking a bit toyetic for my tastes. I will be honest though, in general even as a big fan of the Russ and other classic 40K vehicles I always preferred the Forge World turrets over the plastic ones. The Executioner especially; the plastic one looks a bit naff IMO whilst the FW ones are excellent and very convincing given the inherently fanciful nature of a plasma cannon on a tank straight out of the far flung future of 1923.

 

@WBRBloom that is a very cool concept and I might do that for a Chaos Space Marine tank!

Edited October 2 by Evil Eye

[Griefbringer]

Those Contemptor assault cannons are decent sized, but then again you would likely have just the barrels sticking out of the turret, unlike on the dreadnought where all the worky bits are also visible. They might fit the role quite well - or you could at least use them as a starting point if you want to design your own.

 

Regarding my earlier point about quad-mounts, while it does not sound like a particularly bright idea for assault cannons, it might work with some other funs guns. For example, the quad heavy bolter from Rapier might look quite beefy on Russ turret (less certain about the quad multi-laser or laser destroyer):

 

https://www.warhammer.com/en-EU/shop/solar-auxilia-rapier-direct-fire-battery-2026

https://www.warhammer.com/en-EU/shop/legiones-astartes-rapier-quad-heavy-bolters-2025

 

As for plastic Russ turrets, I personally prefer the original mid-1990's version (in all simplicity) over the current 40K version. Though the one on the recent 30K Solar Auxilia version looks decent in pictures:

 

https://www.warhammer.com/en-EU/shop/solar-auxilia-leman-russ-strike-tank-2024

 

As for Forge World turrets, I have never had any in my hands, though they look pretty good in pictures. However, the resin turrets are not particularly conversion friendly, and some of the turret designs had features that I did not really like, such as the coaxial storm bolter which ended up off-setting the main gun (and is a bit puny weapon for a co-ax).

[Magos Takatus]

Apologies for not helping with conversion ideas but when you mention restyling the Punisher cannon like a classic Gatling gun I got flashbacks to the Brass Beast from Team Fortress 2.

 

Being able to incorporate similar elements such as this into a Leman Russ turret would looks cool. For regiments like the Praetorians and the Vostroyans it could look amazing. Probably not quite as good for traitor guard thematically but it could still have potential.  I can't get an ideal angle of the gun and sadly the game isn't installed on my pc right now. I'll see if I can find a video of the item.

 

So yeah, a handheld minigun with Gatling gun aesthetics.If you can make it man-portable with some creative liberty, I'm sure you can jam it into a tank turret. Trying to scratchbuild it sounds like a pain, though.

[Griefbringer]

That Brass Beast reminds me somehow of Pilum Sentry Cannon that GW mail order released in 1997 (see Citadel Journal issue 22). This was essentially an automated gatling gun that could be placed on Imperial tanks on top of a hatch for some extra dakka. As a drawback it may have been difficult for the crew to use the hatch for emergency exit. There was also Tornado barrage launcher, mounting four missiles, as an alternative weapon that could be mounted on the hatches.

 

Back to the original topic: Evil Eye, have you come up with any plan yet or would you need some more ideas?

[Evil Eye]

16 hours ago, Magos Takatus said:

Apologies for not helping with conversion ideas but when you mention restyling the Punisher cannon like a classic Gatling gun I got flashbacks to the Brass Beast from Team Fortress 2.

 

Being able to incorporate similar elements such as this into a Leman Russ turret would looks cool. For regiments like the Praetorians and the Vostroyans it could look amazing. Probably not quite as good for traitor guard thematically but it could still have potential.  I can't get an ideal angle of the gun and sadly the game isn't installed on my pc right now. I'll see if I can find a video of the item.

 

So yeah, a handheld minigun with Gatling gun aesthetics.If you can make it man-portable with some creative liberty, I'm sure you can jam it into a tank turret. Trying to scratchbuild it sounds like a pain, though.

I absolutely had that in mind- I fell out of love with the game a long time ago but the weapon design is great and the Brass Beast is no exception.

15 hours ago, Griefbringer said:

That Brass Beast reminds me somehow of Pilum Sentry Cannon that GW mail order released in 1997 (see Citadel Journal issue 22). This was essentially an automated gatling gun that could be placed on Imperial tanks on top of a hatch for some extra dakka. As a drawback it may have been difficult for the crew to use the hatch for emergency exit. There was also Tornado barrage launcher, mounting four missiles, as an alternative weapon that could be mounted on the hatches.

 

Back to the original topic: Evil Eye, have you come up with any plan yet or would you need some more ideas?

I'm thinking I'll model and print my own design, but any other ideas are welcome! As it happens, this particular Russ is probably going to be an Executioner as it turns out, but I do want to do a Punisher at some point, so still worth thinking about.

[Magos Takatus]

21 hours ago, Griefbringer said:

That Brass Beast reminds me somehow of Pilum Sentry Cannon that GW mail order released in 1997 (see Citadel Journal issue 22). This was essentially an automated gatling gun that could be placed on Imperial tanks on top of a hatch for some extra dakka. As a drawback it may have been difficult for the crew to use the hatch for emergency exit. There was also Tornado barrage launcher, mounting four missiles, as an alternative weapon that could be mounted on the hatches.

 

Back to the original topic: Evil Eye, have you come up with any plan yet or would you need some more ideas?

Good lord! I'd forgotten about those! I seem to recall about three or four variations in one got and I seem to recall almost all of them were Imperial Guard only, which made my space marines sad. I don't think I ever saw them outside of that Citadel Journal article.

 

I think the barrage launcher worked with the preliminary barrage rules guard had at the time?

5 hours ago, Evil Eye said:

I absolutely had that in mind- I fell out of love with the game a long time ago but the weapon design is great and the Brass Beast is no exception.

I'm thinking I'll model and print my own design, but any other ideas are welcome! As it happens, this particular Russ is probably going to be an Executioner as it turns out, but I do want to do a Punisher at some point, so still worth thinking about.

Understandable. Valve fell out of love with the game too. 

[Griefbringer]

14 minutes ago, Magos Takatus said:

Good lord! I'd forgotten about those! I seem to recall about three or four variations in one got and I seem to recall almost all of them were Imperial Guard only, which made my space marines sad. I don't think I ever saw them outside of that Citadel Journal article.

 

I think the barrage launcher worked with the preliminary barrage rules guard had at the time?

 

At the risk de-railing the thread, I guess I better get back to this sense I do own the said Citadel Journal (FLGS was emptying up their inventory at good discount once upon a time. There were three different options:

 

1.) Pilum sentry cannon was also available for the space marine - in the front inside cover photo it is shown mounted on an Ultramarine Predator annihilator. Despite the impressive looking barrels, it was limited to defensive overwatch fire against charging enemy. Barring the range issues, firepower was pretty much equal to a stubber.

 

2.) Tornado barrage launcher: this was used at the beginning of the game to fire an additional preliminary barrage (IG speciality at the time), after which it played no role in the game. Which in retrospect makes me wonder why would you actually even need to show it one the model (especially as the model upgrade actually showed it with missile tubes loaded, rather than empty after firing.

 

3.) Command cupola: this allows the tank to call in indirect fire from other tanks (including battle cannon and demolisher armed Leman Russes that were not normalyl able to fire indirectly). This was represented by a well-dressed officer upper body mounted at the hatch. A few years later this figure was also included as a bonus figure in normal Leman Russ kit (also Chimera and Basilisk had bonus figures thrown in). You can see him in this old catalogue page, labelled as "Leman Russ Commander":

 

http://www.solegends.com/citcat2000/c2000p119-00.htm

 

[Magos Takatus]

This is a massive co-incidence... I kepts a few of my old Citadel Journal issues, it turns out issue 22 was the most prized one I kept because it's the one with the first Blood Bowl Lizardmen team that I kept the rules for. I remembered their being three or four turret upgrades, there were three updates but four photos. 

 

I'm going to add another hot take here as I leaf through this... We need another publication like the Citadel Journal again. Encouraging fan-made rules, scenarios and conversions is something that really needs greater emphasis in the hobby. Sure, we have communities like this one that help with that, but GW really pushed that sort of creativity back then.

[Griefbringer]

Citadel Journal was quite a peculiar publication, being ran by the Mail Order department and mostly consisting of fan-made material (there was also the occasional article by studio designers). Apparently back in the 1990's the Mail Order Trolls were provided some freedom as to how to run their cave, producing also all sorts of little promotion leaflets and posters and selling stuff that never made it to stores - like the infamous metal WH40K Thunderhawk model. On the order form of that Thunderhawk, you had to confirm that you were barking mad (or something to that effect), a contractual term unlikely to be approved by corporate lawyers if they had been aware of it (a court might have not seen it purely in terms of humour).

 

The introduction of the Fanatic with its range of specialist game magazines (ca. 2000) seemed to spell the beginning of end for the Citadel Journal, as previously those games had provided big part of content for it. There were a few more issues focusing mainly on WH40K and Warhammer content, but these were thinner on content. By that time, Internet access had started to become more widespread, and hobbyists were starting to publish all sorts of home-brewed material on their websites and online forums. And when Paul Sawyer transitioned from CJ to WD editor, he introduced there elements of hobbyist-driven content (though not house rules), while Inferno provided a channel for those with more literary talent.

 

Apparently the Journal term itself has not been totally forgotten, since it is being now used for various 48 page supplements for the Specialist Games ranges, such as the Arcane Journal for The Old World. Coincidence or not, the last Citadel Journals that I have in my collection were also 48 pages "thick".