Ferrata Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 I was just thinking about this, and I dont think there is an offical answer. So like we did with the gene-seed nature vs nurture discussion, I would like to discuss this. I know a lot of people like to say their called the "Emperor's Zookeepers" after an important event in their history where they saved a Zoo planet from destruction. But what would they be called before then? I like to think that the thousands of psykers on Terra reading the Emperors Tarrot, see these names on the marines near the foundings. Thus they could be named after an important event in their life, but they are named before hand after one of the Psykers sees it. Or could there be a Ordos for Name Generating? Ferrata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironloki Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Well I think its the marines who chose it. As you say later on marines may change their name depending on their situation or if the complete a great dead, i.e a chapter turning to chaos may change their name and the Legion of the damned changed their name and chapter colours after being stuck in the warp. To begin with I think marines are simply given a data number. If you look at SleepWalkers fluff his chapter is called 920 for example and crash before they decide upon their name :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue Trader Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 My thought would be that it would be the High Lords choosing them when comissioning a founding. What's actually more likely IMO is that there's some bean counter somewhere in the Administratum with a list of names and symbols for potential chapters, and a loooong list of all the chapters that are already in (and have been in) existance. After all, you don't want some over eager Chapter Master, flushed with the power of having his own chapter to choose a name that already exists, it'd just get confusing to have two chapters of Novamarines, or Howling Griffons or... If it were the marines themselves who chose the name, I would think there would be some kind of Administratum veto, to prevent the duplication of names and also to stop an ego-cententric Chapter Master naming his chapter "Chapter Master Bob's Brilliant Kick-ass Super Ninja Marines" :D :( I find it extremely improbable that a psychic would choose the name for a chapter based on some event in the future. Time is highly fluid, with innumerable possible outcomes - there's no guarantee the Chapter will reach planet Zoo in time to save it (they might get stuck in the warp - aaah, the horror of weak plot hooks! :( ), or that the enemy will attack at the specific time, or that another chapter shows up and saves planet Zoo (which would be embarrassing for the Zookeepers!) or even that planet Zoo will still be there for the chapter to save in the first place... Name changes such as the type you mentioned occur because of specific events, and the names are changed afterwards to reflect that seminal event in the chapter's history... The Relictors had a name before they started collecting all the old chaos kit they could find (they were the Fire Claws), and any other chapter changing their name will have originally had an assigned name... The one feasible way I see for chapters to reference a planet in their name is for it to be their homeworld, or the homeworld of their primogenitor - it doesn't seem unreasonable for the Praetors of Orpheus to be based on the planet Orpheus or for the Sons of Medusa to be descended from the Iron Hands (though that's not official - it's never been clarified). You get the idea, though, I'm sure... RT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanTheAngry Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 The psycher idea is kinda cool, it reminds me of that hat in Harry Potter.... I don't think the number assignment works though marine are very proud and guard regiments get names why wouldnt marines. The high lords or one of their cleric/secretary guys would choose a name. The job of picking chapter names in the imperium would go to some bookkeepper who spends his entire life picking names for stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 According to Insignium Astartes, the Chapter Master chooses the name of his Chapter (I'm guessing this happens when the Chapter is considered to be "mission capable"). The Chapter Master has access to a list of extant Chapter names (likely incomplete) as well as words/names that are forbidden (presumably because they are the names of traitor Chapters/Legions). Likewise the Chapter Master of the nascent Chapter also chooses the Chapter badge and color scheme/heraldry. There is likely some assistance/guidance from the Administratum/Adeptus Mechanicus and the Chapter "staff", but the responsibility falls upon the shoulders of the Chapter Master. As far as Chapters renaming themselves goes, there are only a limited number of instances of this in the official fluff. The only example I can think of right now is the Fire Claws (now known as the Relictors). I'm not including traitors in this (Red Corsairs, Black Legion). It would have to be a monumental event that could first inspire the idea of a name change, then persuade the powers that be in a Chapter to carry out the name change. Elements outside of the Chapter would likely have little or no say in this - if Chapter Master Bob and his cohorts decide that the Imperial Death Chickens are going to re-name themselves the Country Fresh Chickens, woe betide the Administratum weenie or arrogant Inquisitor who thinks he's going to interfere. Years and years of tradition, however, would have to be considered (and when you get right down to it, the Space Marines thrive on their traditions). +EDIT+ I don't know how I confused "Raptors" with "Relictors". I must be getting senile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted June 16, 2005 Author Share Posted June 16, 2005 Great, I might have to change the start of my chapters history now :lol: I'd wished I never said anything now :devil: Additional: So, that question is answered. To Rip of Loki's badge thread, how important is the chapter name to the fighting style/attitude of the marines? Some names, such as Loki's Sons of Serapis, dont give much away about the chapter. While my chapters name, Wings of Death, gives a lot away about the chapter. "Wings" --> Lots of Assault Marines, "Death" --> Death obsessed, slightly twistered. Would it be right to have a shooty army with a name like "Emperor's Swords" which sounds like a Combat name. Ferrata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoon Posted June 16, 2005 Share Posted June 16, 2005 Well, another very interesting thread topic nipped in the bud by an annoying fact :devil: Personally, as it appears that the Chapter Master makes the name selection, I think that the name would definitly have at least some bearing on their fighting style. That - AND the traditions that they may have inherited from their "parent." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodunius Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 hmm, i havent heard much interesting about Insignium Astartes before, but that bit about Chapter Masters has piqued my curiousity (what the hell, i just bought How to Paint Space marines partially because i wanted to know the name of the Fire Lords so i suppose i might as well get it..) just one eency weency nit pick.. The only example I can think of right now is the Fire Claws (now known as the Raptors). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> thats the Relictors, the Raptors (aka Raptor Legion) are a 2nd founding Raven Guard successor (tho i wonder if they might have actually been formed from surviving loyalist Emperors Children from Istvaan III..), its actually rather wierd, i've heard loads of people get muddled up and call the Fire Claws the Fire Hawks.. but i dont recall anyone getting the Relictors muddled up! oh there was the Sons of Pertinax, they were invented for the chapter master competition ~ but they did get a mention in WD, they are an Imperial Fist successor chapter whose name changes so that it is always the Sons of current chapter master (former names include the Sons of Commodus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Rex Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 OT: I have tried to find out about the Raptors initially being Loyalist EC marines, but after long searching and investigation I have still not been able to track down the source of this interesting snippet. For this reason I am leaning towards it being fanfic that has graduated into urban legend. :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted June 17, 2005 Author Share Posted June 17, 2005 OT: I have tried to find out about the Raptors initially being Loyalist EC marines, but after long searching and investigation I have still not been able to track down the source of this interesting snippet. For this reason I am leaning towards it being fanfic that has graduated into urban legend. Could it be someone trying to reason having all those non-traitor traitor marine armies? I would be very disappointed if they did end up being EC loyalist, because it would open a very very bad gate, and we will be flooded with Loyalist Death Guard and Thousand Sons and Everybody Ferrata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 just one eency weency nit pick.. The only example I can think of right now is the Fire Claws (now known as the Raptors). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> thats the Relictors, the Raptors (aka Raptor Legion) are a 2nd founding Raven Guard successor (tho i wonder if they might have actually been formed from surviving loyalist Emperors Children from Istvaan III..), its actually rather wierd, i've heard loads of people get muddled up and call the Fire Claws the Fire Hawks.. but i dont recall anyone getting the Relictors muddled up! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You are absolutely correct. I don't know how I mis-typed that because I was thinking Relictors at the time. :tu: I'm going to edit my initial post, but everyone deserves to see this goof up. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubal Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Interestingly, old RT fluff about the implants state that it's the Omophagea (which allows a marine to absorb memories by eating a creature) that has given the name to such chapters as the Blood Drinkers and the Flesh Tearers. Did they get their name when they were founded because they were drinking blood at an early age or what? :tu: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Tyler Posted June 17, 2005 Share Posted June 17, 2005 Interestingly, old RT fluff about the implants state that it's the Omophagea (which allows a marine to absorb memories by eating a creature) that has given the name to such chapters as the Blood Drinkers and the Flesh Tearers. Did they get their name when they were founded because they were drinking blood at an early age or what? :tu: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, they are both 2nd Founding Successors of the Blood Angels. The implication is that the genetic memory of Sanguinius' death at the hands of Horus and the Black Rage/Red Thirst took place immediately, affecting the entire surviving Legion to some degree. When the 2nd Founding actually took place, each of the new Chapters chose their name based on this. Just my guess. In actuality, a few of these Chapters were named before the concept of the Horus Heresy came about, notably the Blood Drinkers. When the story of Horus' treachery was created and the foundings, successors, etc. developed, someone decided to put all of those cannibalistic sounding Chapters under the Blood Angels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 What's in a name? Everything. Usually. There are names that do not provide any suggestion on the fighting style of that chapter ... Ultramarines come fast to thought. Are they the best marines in the galaxy? Debatable, but being "Ultra" at something doesn't describe how you pull it off - just that you do it with superiority :P Fire Claws ... Scythes of the Emperor ... Black Dragons ... Celebrants ... Rainbow Warriors ::cuss: ... Silver Skulls ... Marines Malevolent ... (and no offense for this one) Salamanders?! Ok, maybe the fire thing with the Salamanders ... maybe. :P It is appropriate that the Chapter Master chooses the name. Now all I need to find is the thread on how a Chapter Master is chosen for a new Chapter :blush: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Rex Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 It is appropriate that the Chapter Master chooses the name. Now all I need to find is the thread on how a Chapter Master is chosen for a new Chapter :blush: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How about this post in the Ultimate Chapter Creation thread sticky here? Not official, but in the absence of GW actually giving us some clues, it is a pretty convincing theory for how it might be done. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodunius Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 my source for the conspiracy theory regarding the Raptors/Emperors Children is this: There is a fanfic fluff about the Raptor Legion being formed from the 4th EC Assault Company ~ the fluff being that they were trapped on a planet several years prior to the Horus Heresy and werent rescued until years afterwards.. the Imperium was short of loyal marines at the time, and the Inquisition found them to be free of Heresy so they were allowed to repaint their armour and adopt the name of the Raptor Legion. Skip forward a few years and lo and behold, GW invents official fluff for the Raptors.. that involves them being trapped on a planet for several years before being rescued.. okay its tenuous i know, but there is also the armour markings: the artists rendition of a Raptor does not have a squad marking on its right pad, instead all it has is a large white roman numeral.. something not seen on any other artists rendition of marines (when i say artists rendition i mean the colour examples from the IA articles) EXCEPT on the Emperors Children pre-heresy scheme.. *sigh* Blood Drinkers just dont look the same in mk7 armour :blush: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Race Bannon Posted June 18, 2005 Share Posted June 18, 2005 oooo good sticky. It's been a while since I saw that info so I forgot it was available. So what is the concensus? What Brother Tyler said? That the Chapter Master chooses the name once they are "Mission capable"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted June 18, 2005 Author Share Posted June 18, 2005 So what is the concensus? What Brother Tyler said? That the Chapter Master chooses the name once they are "Mission capable"? Yeah, seeing as it came from a GW source. Just wonder why the Chapter Master of the Rainbow Warriors decided on that? Ferrata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schoon Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 How about this post in the Ultimate Chapter Creation thread sticky here? Not official, but in the absence of GW actually giving us some clues, it is a pretty convincing theory for how it might be done. :P <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I'd say that you might want to edit that post to include our recent discovery about the naming of the chapter, as Insignium Astartes is pretty "official," and we all seem to think the idea reasonable :blush: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vodunius Posted June 19, 2005 Share Posted June 19, 2005 Yeah, seeing as it came from a GW source. Just wonder why the Chapter Master of the Rainbow Warriors decided on that? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> General consensus is they come from a Maori or Hawaiian culture (tho it sticks in my mind there is an Indian god who fires lightning bolts from his 'rainbow', and the Rainbow Warriors chapter badge is quite obviously a rainbow with a lightning bolt coming out the bottom) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted June 19, 2005 Author Share Posted June 19, 2005 General consensus is they come from a Maori or Hawaiian culture (tho it sticks in my mind there is an Indian god who fires lightning bolts from his 'rainbow', and the Rainbow Warriors chapter badge is quite obviously a rainbow with a lightning bolt coming out the bottom) Really? Cool. I will no longer use that chapter as name to take the rip out off. New found respect :P Ferrata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubal Posted June 20, 2005 Share Posted June 20, 2005 There are names that do not provide any suggestion on the fighting style of that chapter ... Ultramarines come fast to thought. Are they the best marines in the galaxy? Debatable, but being "Ultra" at something doesn't describe how you pull it off - just that you do it with superiority :devil:I'd argue that names that describe fighting style is in the minority. I can only think of a few that does. Raptors might, maybe Flesh Tearers (although I have said myself that it's because of the Omophagea). Most names seem to be either cultural, (Iron hands, Blood Drinkers etc) colour related (Ultramarines, Black Consuls/Dragons/Talons/Templars/Wings etc etc.) or sometimes homeworld related (Hounds of Demos, Venerators of Osiron) (names taken from the Iron Archives) Ultramarine is a shade of blue btw... :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted June 20, 2005 Author Share Posted June 20, 2005 Ultramarine is a shade of blue btw... Yup, I got my room painted that colour when I was younger :devil: Also, most names are Descriptive (Blood Angels) or Ownership (Angels of Absolution). Some do stand out as being neither (Salamanders) but these seem to be the minoirty Ferrata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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