Struggling with style/theme for my DIY

[Ivoracle]

Hello all. New board poster here, seeking some help with the details of my DIY chapter.

 

Nutshell fluff: Semi-recent founding chapter that got caught in a trap on their way to set themselves up at their new homeworld. Spent generations in isolation, fighting a continuous war - possibly in the confines of a space hulk, but that's still a bit TBD. Re-emerged, and after some additional fluff, is now a fleet-based chapter that patrols rather than crusades, acting as a reactive, defensive force that relies on the prophecy of its Librarians to know where it needs to be and when. Have been out of isolation long enough now to have built their chapter up to full strength.

 

Traits: Definitely want Significant Divergence, to reflect their isolation. Want Trust Your Battle Brothers, to reflect a general fighting style of taking-and-holding ground. Drawbacks: Eye-to-Eye (again reflecting the "hold your ground" philosophy, as opposed to hit-and-run - also works well for the "war in space hulk" idea, where the chapter would have spent generations unable to use such tactics), and Death Before Dishonor (chapter spent generations in a war where no retreat was possible - this shaped their philosophy).

 

Where I'm struggling is what to take as my second Trait advantage, and with a more general style for my army lists. I definitely see this army as a short-range shooty army. They get in close with their rapid-fire bolters, then set to receive the charge. One trait option is Clense and Purify, which again works well with the war-in-space idea, where close quarters combat would dictate special weapons over heavy weapons. Another option is "Uphold the Honor of the Emperor", which is a fluff-based decision based on the notion that these guys view their Librarians' visions as directions from the Emperor. They see their chapter as having a direct line to the Emperor's will. A pleasing thought is the idea of Vets and Command squads advancing in the open, guns blazing, trusting to the Emperor for their protection.

 

I'm also trying in general to decide how to craft my heavy-support choices for this army. Troop heavy with Devastors? Devs seem like a good idea in combination with Clense and Purify, but if I don't take C&P, maybe having the heavy weapons spread through the tac squads makes more sense. Do I go tank heavy with Preadator/Land Raider support? Whirlwind(s), perhaps laying mines to support the "stand and deliver" shootiness of the army?

 

Decisions, decisions. Any thoughts from the peanut gallery?

[Plisken]

I like the overall theme and it's good to see you taking a theme and picking traits and advantages/disadvantages that fit with that rather than the other way around. It's also interesting to see that you're having an easier time picking disavantages than advantages. I tend to find that when I'm building a traited Chapter that I end up wanting multiple major disadvantages... :tu:

 

Anyway... in an attempt to help you. I have a bit of an issue with your background. It seems odd to me (and I don't have any specific reference to help) that the Chapter would be fully created without first going to their homeworld. I always got the impression that the Chapter is built on their homeworld and that it's all in place before the Chapter is built rather than building a Chapter and then saying "this planet here on the map is your homeworld". I think that since Chapters generally have a feel of their homeworld and it's frequently their only (and almost always their primary) source of recruits that they would be on the homeworld before major recruitment starts.

 

Now, if you do stick with the idea that they set out as a completed Chapter to claim their homeworld you probably need to think about where they recruit from now. While marines are pretty much a law to themselves, Chapters can't really just wander around randomly stopping at planets on a recruitment drive. That said, I like the "on a mission from god" approach of being directed by the visions of their seers and this could also tie in to the recruitment. Perhaps the librarians tell them which planets to go to to pick the special children who will be the next carriers of their seed.

 

The issue with the whole librarians having visions from the Emperor is that this could easily (and probably would) be seen by most inquisitors (and certainly by the ecclesiarchy) as Heresy... especially that it's the librarians rather than the chaplains who are having these visions. The whole thing smacks of sorcery! How does the structure of the Chapter work in that respect? If the librarians have a direct line to the god-emperor where does that put the chaplains who are in essence the Chapter's priests?

 

If the Chapter's librarians are prophetic and know where and when to be to fight the Emperor's enemies how did they get caught in a trap in the first place? Who are the mysterious force that they fought for so long?

 

I know you're working on the fluff, but I hope that these questions might help that process. As to the advantage, I totally think that these guys are a shoe-in for "Uphold the Honor of the Emperor". They are guided and protected by the Emperor... He evenmade sure that they came out of their first huge war ok, infact they probably came out stronger, tempered in the fires of battle. It ties in so well with their other trait disadvantages too.

 

Without actually having the trait disadvantage, this force sounds like they very much embrace the notion of "flesh over steel" with their fleet-based, ship-to-ship fighter style and would be a heavy infantry force, lots of tacs and devs for the heavy slots.

[Muras]

So far I like what you've written so far. I prefer the 'Uphold the Honor of the Emperor' trait, as it seems to me, to fit what you are asking for best . One thing about space hulk fighting is that you would have to be careful about firing any really big strong weapons in many of the sections of one. A plasma gun would make a nice hole in the outer hull of a ship, so I'd imagine they'd actually favor small arms/close combat after that experience, hence your TYBB's.

 

-Pred

[Ivoracle]

I've actually got a fair bit more detail of the background in my head, I just didn't want to flood this particular post with all of it.

 

Re: getting waylaid en route. I'll be honest, in that I'm not a 40K fluff expert. I actually spent a fair bit of time reading and digesting info on this site recently, which resulted in some modification to my original fluff. It's not particularly clear to me exactly how a chapter is set up, and one possibility seemed like everything might be pulled together deep within Imperial territory, and then sent on its way. Perhpas that's not the case. I'll ponder this a little more. One thing I'm struggling with is a way to explain all (or most) of the Chapter getting isolated, as opposed to just a part of it.

 

Prophecy and getting waylaid: The Librarians did not have their penchant for prophecy prior to the isolation - it was the development of this ability that allowed them to escape. So that's not a problem.

 

How do they recruit? In my initial vision, I had thought of the chapter having a self-contained fleet, complete with serfs and such, that went along with them. However, I kind of like the idea of them being guided through visions to locations where they could recruit. Interesting...

 

Heresy: Yep. I recognize this. This Chapter is definitel on an Inquistion watch list. The fluff includes a bit about how the Chapter was almost disbanded when it emerged from isolation, largely due to Inquisitorial concerns. The fluff surrounding their continued survival relies mainly on the fact that they have repeatedly saved the bacon of other Imperial forces when they came unexpectedly to their aid. This includes an important role they played in some event when they first returned. I'm also working on some mysterious politicking surrounding their "approval" by the High Lords of Terra. Much of this I want to "speculate" on, but leave as an air of mystery.

 

The role of Chaplain: Thought about this too. I see the Librarians as venerated for their visions, but they are not religious leaders. They don't issue any kind of religious instruction to the chapter, nor do their visions reveal those kinds of things. The Chaplains maintain and interpret the holy texts, teach the litanies to their battle-brothers, and embody the religious zeal of the chapter. I see the actual religious side of this Chapter as similar to any other chapter, they just happen to believe that the Emperor speaks to them more directly than to other Chapters (which does give them a bit of a zealous ego).

 

Flesh Over Steel: I actually almost took this, and I'm still toying with the idea. The main reason I didn't was the restriction on Transports. I see myself building armies with at least 2-3 drop pods, and maybe some Rhinos to deliver troops to the positions they need to hold. From a practical standpoint, I didn't want to limit my transport options, and I also want to leave room for at least one assault squad, which I see as the only real Fast Attack selection that they will use. I'm a bit leary of building an army that does a lot of foot-slogging, just because I'm not sure I'd be that good at playing it. But the foot-slogging does seem to fit the fluff nicely.

 

I also don't have many tank models yet, so that would save me the trouble of buying them. :tu:

[Plisken]

I've actually got a fair bit more detail of the background in my head, I just didn't want to flood this particular post with all of it.

Your initial post did certainly hinted at that, and certainly had enough to intrigue me.

 

How do they recruit?  In my initial vision, I had thought of the chapter having a self-contained fleet, complete with serfs and such, that went along with them.  However, I kind of like the idea of them being guided through visions to locations where they could recruit.  Interesting...

Yeah, I like the idea of it being a bit like the choosing of the Dalai Lama or the pope, where it's not the the marines themselves picking the recruits, but rather the librarian pointing them to the children who are destined to be their battle brothers.

 

Heresy:  Yep.  I recognize this.  This Chapter is definitel on an Inquistion watch list. The fluff includes a bit about how the Chapter was almost disbanded when it emerged from isolation, largely due to Inquisitorial concerns.  The fluff surrounding their continued survival relies mainly on the fact that they have repeatedly saved the bacon of other Imperial forces when they came unexpectedly to their aid.  This includes an important role they played in some event when they first returned.  I'm also working on some mysterious politicking surrounding their "approval" by the High Lords of Terra.  Much of this I want to "speculate" on, but leave as an air of mystery.

I think that them keeping their methods secret from others would work better here than having the Inquisition on to them. Afterall, if anyone was to ask them how they always happen to be in the right place at the right time the simple answer "the Emperor guides us" would be truthful and yet non-specific enough that it sounds like a stock answer for a loyal and well-indoctrinated marine.

 

Flesh Over Steel:  I actually almost took this, and I'm still toying with the idea.  The main reason I didn't was the restriction on Transports.  I see myself building armies with at least 2-3 drop pods, and maybe some Rhinos to deliver troops to the positions they need to hold.

Well, while it's not in any official FAQ, Chapter Approved, etc. yet, the general concensus after unofficial comments from the development team is that FOS does not limit the use of drop pods. EtE probably fits what you're going for just as well though.

[Ivoracle]

I think that them keeping their methods secret from others would work better here than having the Inquisition on to them.

Well, I never really envisioned them as proclaiming to the world that they are guided by Visions from the Emperor. I agree that they need to keep their cards close to their chest, and their fluff will reflect this. The initial question of the Chapter's disbanding is based more on a general distrust of what happend to them during their long isolation. The Inquisition isn't after them. They just have a check mark by them in the books that denotes - keep an eye on these guys. Actually, I imagine a lot of marine chapters, including some of the big, famous ones, have those kind of tic marks.

 

Well, while it's not in any official FAQ, Chapter Approved, etc. yet, the general concensus after unofficial comments from the development team is that FOS does not limit the use of drop pods.

Good to know. I might take EtE anyway, and just also build my lists with an eye towards Flesh Over Steel.

 

Thanks for the comments, BTW. When I get things a bit more settled, I'll post all the chapter fluff.

 

Another thing I'm struggling with: The initial isolation of the chapter. I don't want some part of the chapter getting isolated, because I don't feel the 40K fluff is very supportive of the idea of a whole chapter forming from a lost company. But what kinds of things could cause a whole Chapter to go on the move, such that they could all get waylaid? That was one advantage of the chapter being formed in one location and sent to another. What other plot device might get the whole chapter into harm's way together?

[Plisken]

Another thing I'm struggling with:

[Ivoracle]

*Edited*

 

I had asked a question here pertaining to whether or not Space Marines produce their own Warp Navigators or if they get them from the same place as everyone else. This has bearing on my fluff, which was the source of the question. Seek and you shall find, for I found the answer to my own question in an article on the BFG website. Answer: the Navis Nobilite is bound by ancient blood oaths to supply navigators to the Space Marines.

[Plisken]

And now, a different question:

 

Navigators and Astropaths.

[Brother Sergeant Alasseo]

Of course, with every prophecy, you end up with a problem of determinism over free will. You could have their librarians have prophetic visions before the isolation, and have them see the trap, but see the entire chapter heading there anyway.

Hell, you could even have the prompting of the librarians be the reason that they go on whatever particular mission gets them on the trap in the first place.

[the-betrayer]

What gene-seed are you on about useing?, because the more i read it the more the Dark Angels come to mind.

 

 

Peace :tu:

[Plisken]

What gene-seed are you on about useing?, because the more i read it the more the Dark Angels come to mind.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The DA aren't especially well-known for their librarians (or for being in the right place at the right time :tu:) and they certainly don't have a monopoly on either being without a homeworld or secrets. Since they're such a recent Founding I'd say it's most likely they come from Ultra or IF stock.

[Ivoracle]

What gene-seed are you on about useing?, because the more i read it the more the Dark Angels come to mind.

The specific gene-seed isn't that important to the chapter's background. In fact, the more I work through the details, the more fitting it seems that the founding of the chapter be nothing special. I've been thinking of Ultramarine gene-seed, but drawn from one of their successor chapters - one that doesn't really have much official fluff out there other than a name. I like Ultramarine colors, and will probably use some variation on them, so UM gene-seed works well in that respect too.

 

My current thinking is that the development of the visionary capability comes out of the crucible of their isolation, and not necessarily from their gene-seed. I'm also intentionally leaving unanswered the question of whether or not they really do receive their special visions from the Emperor, or whether there is another explanation. For the time being, it's merely a fact, and their belief is just that - a belief based on zealous faith.

[Ivoracle]

Gonin' on vacation for a week and a half. I'll spend some time digesting these suggestions, and see what comes out as a result. When I get back, I'll make a more detailed fluff post for you guys to read and critique. Feel free to leave more suggestions here as well.