Krooter Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 QUOTE(Quin 242 @ Aug 2 2005, 04:14 PM)QUOTE(Krooter @ Aug 2 2005, 04:52 AM) Why can't we go back to the old fluff, when the Emperors Finest were bio-chemically hardened criminals? This was never the fluff for Marines. IG and penal battalions yes. SM no. Night Lords come to mind. Back in the old RT days and before, some marines came from "sweeps" in the underhive. Kind of a way to make them 'pay back" soceity. I guess it kept the bad guys from breeding . Better days. That was what I was thinking off. They would search the underhives for vicious warriors and bio-chemically harden their skin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin 242 Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Quin: a Clone is an exact copy (identical twins are 'natural' clones). Marine 42 will look just like Marine 117. Their personalities may differ slightly, but that's about it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Exact genetic copy yes. They would probably have the same color eyes and hair etc... That does not preclude different bone structure etc. Any tiny disruption of any one of the cellular splits would result in a different look. Especially in 40K where there would be cryptic controls over the progression of the embryo, there would be minor variences. Dolly the sheep was similar but distiguishable from her "parent". In the imperfect world of religeon masking as Science you can imagine many more variences and plenty of failures as the process proceeeds. Maybe one out of ten or so clones being viable hosts for Marine Zygotes maybe? The rest as test bed subjects and Servitors :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonking Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 I was thinking along similiar lines to this as far as variences go, was gonna have the success ratio closer to 50-60% though to make it a viable experiment for the imperium. Still have to think of some flaws that could develope within them later in life, like schitzophrenia, or muscle deteriation....or shortened life spans in comparrison to most marines....etc. do not want the process to be completely perfect. I want some kind of long term draw back that takes 50- 100 years to show signs provideing they live that long, and them haveing to develope some way to delay it, but not be able to completely stop it. Thought about genetic burnout, or spontanious combustion....ie, older marines start haveing elevated body temperatures violent mood swings and occasional muscle spasms that are warning signs of the genetic burn out, at this time when the signs appear they are put into suicide squads similiar to death company. They are tested regularly through out there lives for these signs...i am not sure about this just trying to come up with some viable flaw...do not want them to be perfect per say. Maybe start that way but degenerate over time. Ideas / suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cptn. Palladorus Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Well if I remember correctly, the very first generation of Space Marines were grown that way by the Emperor himself to form his army when he first conquered Terra, so trying to raise an entire chapter by cloning would probably be viewed by most imperials as blasphemy. The only person to try this since then (Corax of the Raven Guard) failed miserably, and this would only lend creedence to the blasphemy argument. Maybe this could be part of the fluff for a Chaos legion though? I'm thinking one dedicated to Tzeentch, with lots of psykers, possessed marines and spawn to represent unstable mutations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonking Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 ummmm chaos, well lets see...ummm NO!!!! This is solely an Idea for marine chapter...not a big fan of chaos, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atilinus Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 poor marine #13... was never very lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonking Posted August 4, 2005 Author Share Posted August 4, 2005 I am working on the fluff right now, but am also trying to rewrite my Bloodwraiths fluff to so they will be both better written and have a much more detailed story. please keep the ideas comming...still need some ideas for genetic drawbacks that occur later in the marines life. Thanx>>> :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCC Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 For the record in Rogue Trader days Space Marines were in fact recruited from the ranks of the galaxy's toughest/nastiest/most vicious criminals. They were given training, psycho indoctrination and were genetically modified and turned into Marines but they were still essentially psychopaths ;) Go find a copy of RT and you'll find all the info in there, along with pics that show Marines as psychos with things like 'Kil! Kil! Kil!' daubed onto their weapons and armour. Granted I prefer the current knights/monks of the stars thing they've got going on now but they did start out as raving loonies and law-breakers... On to Dragonking's idea: Not a fan of cloning myself, it's not really an Imperial tech in my view. What would be far more Imperial would be the draconian stealing of suitable babies to raise as potential Marines :) Pretty simple, on Planet X every male child is tested at birth for genetic suitability to be implanted with the Chapter's gene-seed, any child who is compatible is taken away for training. You can make the process as sinister as you like, perhaps the parents know and are proud they're son is going to be a star-warrior, perhaps the child is taken and parents are told he has died from 'complications' and never know the truth, or perhaps the truth is revealed to them if their son makes the grade as a Marine... IMNSHO that might be a more Imperial way of doing things, the rest of your idea stands, no names, Spartan like training regime etc. they all remain unchanged, only the method of procuring babies that changes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Not a fan of cloning myself, it's not really an Imperial tech in my view... The Imperium has used it, though. Not only is Abaddon rumoured to be Horus' Clone-son, but Horus' body was cloned by the Emperor's Children later on (though the clones were destroyed by Abaddon. I think that cloning is an Imperial technology, but a very old one, that's likely not used very much in the later millenia. Perhaps this chapter is an early-founding one, or found the technology somewhere, or is the subject of careful experimentation by the Adeptus Mechanicus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCC Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Not a fan of cloning myself, it's not really an Imperial tech in my view. To clarify my comments I'm not saying the Imperium can't clone people, or that it doesn't have the tech or the will to do so, I'm saying it's unlikely to bother. There are billions of billions of humans in the galaxy why do you need to bother with arcane, costly sciences like cloning when you can simply sift through the earth to find the gold nuggets. It's also a less risky operation, cloning, as seen in the Dark Founding and the rebirth of the RG immediately post-Heresy, is fraught with danger and offers no guarantees of a suitable outcome. I'd say if the Imperium could reliably clone super soldiers it would have been doing it on a large scale for a long time and it hasn't which makes the premise of cloning a Chapter even less likely. It'd also be far cheaper in resource terms to implement my idea (or any other type of 'sifting' program) than it would a cloning program which is another reason it'd be more likely to be used IMO... Cloning is nice and all but sometimes simpler is better :wub: But hey, it's Dragonking's Chapter, if he wants clones I say let him have clones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagar_The_Bear Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 I wouldn't see a problem with a eugenics program to produce Marine candidates. Even vat growing these men. It would be much like the Clans in Battletech, for those who are familliar with that story line. We must remember that different worlds in the Imperium have slightly different tech levels. I would think that this Chapter of marines comes from a world with a high tech level but a low population, which forced its citizenry to use technology to boost its small numbers due to some kind of anomoly that makes the birth rate inordinantly low. A civilization geared towards producing the perfect warrior buy allowing only thier greatest heroes to contribute to the genetic soup used to make more marines. I think its a great idea. I would go with giving them disadvantages that would indicate that they are very arrogant due to the fact that they feel themselves to be genetically superior even to other marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Eugenics would likely be tolerated. On my chapter's homeworld, for example, those showing mutation are killed at birth. The same happens on worlds across the Imperium. However, perhaps this chapters' homeworld practises it to a far greater degree, eliminating anyone that doesn't conform. However, you would need two castes, almost... the scientists and those being experimented upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 A world of clones? Is anyone else thinking Rimmerworld? :lol: Ferrata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonking Posted August 4, 2005 Author Share Posted August 4, 2005 this is close to what I wanted....I am obsorbeing all this like a sponge, trying to make sure this fluff is awsome and covers all the bases....have come up with the final name for the chapter and logo. Name: The Gemini Order Logo: Two skull profiles with back of skulls touching each other with large Bar code behind them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Drop the barcode, and I think it sounds awesome. The idea of the twin-skulls is very evocative of your ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einsatz Posted August 4, 2005 Share Posted August 4, 2005 Wasn't the "war world" series of books alot like this? Until they were weakened by the planetary stock and the stock was strengthened by them. Awesome source for fluff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonking Posted August 5, 2005 Author Share Posted August 5, 2005 Ok will take your suggestion Commissar Molotov. I am gonna drop the bar code from there logo, may add a DNA helix in its place though what do you think...but will put a small bar code on there left forearm, need to contact griffon games and get estimate on cost for both logo and small bar code. Remember until they reach a certain rank they are refered to by there line number, and are even refered to it occassionally after that. I will probably try to get there complete first draft of there fluff on here by sunday for comments, critisisms and rewrites. There color scheme is going to be Bone white and Hawk turquise with the armor halved. I think quartered may look a little better but the halve will play into the cloneing and Gemini theme. There shoulder pads will be white with hawk turquise trim, and dwarf bronze accents. Still trying to decide if they will be based of Mars or a secret facility on a planet near our system. Keep it comming guys I think this could be awsome and I appreciate all your input good and bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodwraith Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 How about this, the planet is ruled by the space marines they test the babies at birth and those that don't make the grade are culled, not only the children are culled but the parents as well for creating faulty genetics. The marines don't want an otherwise perfect gene pool sullied. The marines bring in male and females from all over the galaxy. If they produce a dud, they, their family and their extended family are all wiped out. If too many get wiped out the marines just replenish the stocks. That way you add a dark twist to you fluff. If you want to make it even darker maybe they stumbled across some of fabius biles notes and incorporated the techniques into their procedures. Crud now you've got me thinking again, always a bad idea. Must...Stick...To...Apostates! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCC Posted August 5, 2005 Share Posted August 5, 2005 A world of clones? Is anyone else thinking Rimmerworld? ;) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> :) Oh man, now that'd be awful, a Chapter of Rimmer-ites? Oh Sweet-Emperor it doesn't bear thinking about... Actually twins is a neat idea for a DIY Chapter - one twin as the Marine and the other as his servant, they compete from birth to win the Marine slot, that could make for some interesting battles :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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