+ IA: Imperial Castellans +

[my_name_is_tudor]

Templars seed would make a certain sense, but why would a chapter on a permanent crusade create a successor dedicated to defending one region.

 

I vote IF.

[Ferrata]

Along with Seed, we also need to think about who trained them (thus, who are the basis for their combat doctrine)

 

I think it is a choice between Ultra's and Fists. Maybe with the Sallies, Scars and RG as well. Geneseed has no effect of combat doctrine, thats down to who trains them and life issues.

 

I think fists seeds with the fists training them might be good, or Ultra's and one of their successors train them.

 

Templars seed would make a certain sense, but why would a chapter on a permanent crusade create a successor dedicated to defending one region.

 

Templars wouldnt make any sense. Any chapter trained by them would have a CC orientation due to how the BT fight. The fists themselves make more sense.

 

Ferrata

Edited August 15, 2005 by Ferrata

[Daeothar]

IF or UM, no question. I'd prefer UM because it's more 'realistic' since more than half the present chapters are of UM stock. However, considering the Castellans' predeliction towards forts etc, combined with their stern but noble nature, I'd prefer IF.

 

Choices choices...

 

As for the founding; unknown would be preferable, but definitaly before the Age of Apostacy, to make it possible for them to have a longstanding relationship with the Echlesiarchy and give them a nice background story to explain the connection. I would suggest however that they were quite young at the time of the actual Apostacy; being a young chapter would have made them more susceptible to the influence of the Echlesiarchy. Through the IF they could have felt a close tie with Terra, which held the high seat at the time...

[my_name_is_tudor]

I mentioned the Templars because of the obvious similarities in how Zealous/Pious they are, and their Knightly bent. But as you say organisation and such are not really down to gene seed at all.

[Shadey]

*Taps microphone*

 

Hello, is this thing on?

 

I seem to have been systematically shunned. Now I am pretty sure it is not deliberate but the facts remain.

 

All of my support missed, all of my points and ideas ignored (with the possible exception of one, by one person)

 

I understand not everything by everyone needs commenting on and its possible to miss a thing or two but I have yet to receive a direct, or even indirect reply to anything (apart from that one ambigous example) I have mentioned.

 

I mentioned on page 2:

 

I agree that it is more interesting and better suited to have them from the Imperial Fists, but I am pretty sure they are from the Ultramarines.

 

I am almost positive it says, in official background they are a from the Ultramarines geneseed. Now I could be wrong, I have been trying to find official comfirmation but it is proving elusive. They seem to have detailed mainly where the second founding chapters come from and little else.

 

Any help to either confirm or deny would be appreciated.

 

edit: I did find this: http://www.thewarp.net/war/emeraldtiger/pugmarks/DTKeep.html

 

Someone elses attempt at the Castellans. Personally I prefer what we already have but it is another perspective. There is basically only a general outline there. It did however give me the idea, many chapters have custom titles for their officers. Perhaps something along the line of Steward for our chapter master here?

Edited August 15, 2005 by Shadey

[ironloki]

Sorry im confused. Are you saying that there is fluff saying they use UM geneseed? if so where did you find this info roughly?

 

It seems weird for GW to say these guys are UM successors and give them nothing else in terms of fluff.

[Shadey]

Sorry im confused. Are you saying that there is fluff saying they use UM geneseed? if so where did you find this info roughly?

 

It seems weird for GW to say these guys are UM successors and give them nothing else in terms of fluff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I saw it listed on a website. Not official I know but it sounded familiar and everything else on that list seemed correct as far as I could check.

 

As I said, I am checking through my official sources to confirm. I suspect I am going to find nothing though.

 

It is not really that wierd, I know of other chapters that have a name, colour, badge and named their geneseed origin, and nothing else.

Edited August 15, 2005 by Shadey

[ironloki]

It could be just a fan-fic sight but let us know if you find it.

 

As for the Geneseed.

 

Ultramarines are pretty much standard

Imperial fists - similar except no cool spitting of acid.

 

I would be tempted to go with Ultra's but something like Salamanders would be good just for a change.

 

As for training wise are there any marine chapters who get on ok with the Ecclesiarchy? Im thinking not. Again its probably best to go with a standard codex chapter and by that I dont mean being trained by Marines who prefer close combat etc - Imperial fists may be good due to the space born siege theme ^_^

[Zhivago]

Well, as gene-seed as little to do with belief, and not much to do with doctorine either (ref, imperial fists, black templars, crimson fists)

 

Why don't make them ultramarine ? 90% of chapters are supposed to be of this gene-stock. Still most of the DIYs we see are using more flashy stuff ? Why not ultramarines fro the sake of it ?

[Brother-Librarian Akritedes]

Shadey, I don't think anyone's been ignoring you. It's may just be that all your points either mesh so well with what everyone else is saying or are so off the mark that no one feels the need to comment. It's like the perfect model, after half a dozen people say "Good job" everyone else tends to stay quiet rather then seem redundant.

 

Oh, and by the way...*presses concealed button on the wall, auto-turrets spring out from the floor and ceiling* WELCOME TO THE B&C! *Turrets begin shooting confetti at random passers-by* :rolleyes:

 

As is, I was already in favor of Ultramarine stock. If we want a fortification mindset, we can make them Ultramarine seed, but trained by Fists or...some other random chapter. ;)

[Zhivago]

As for the founding; unknown would be preferable, but definitaly before the Age of Apostacy, to make it possible for them to have a longstanding relationship with the Echlesiarchy and give them a nice background story to explain the connection.

 

Im not 100% sure, but I have the feeling that 13th founding was around apostasy, as relictors were created in thoose times. Meaning, Castellans would be 9-12th founding, yes ?

 

 

throwing suggestion in air.

 

For the 'home world' thingy, prehaps a palce ecclesiarchy sees back waterish and bit pagan, even if following imperial creed ? For example if the feral people worshipped some sort of idol of power ? (as in one of many official cults) Now marines recruited from there would still feel the guilty of being 'unorthodox', a thing which the scout pilgrimage is supposed change, ie, make them true to Emperor ?

 

For the world, propably earth sized planet, with few pecualrites, but nothing too flashy ?

Prehaps we could have nomdic tribes, or then tribes who live in caves or...

[Ferrata]

I seem to have been systematically shunned. Now I am pretty sure it is not deliberate but the facts remain.

Sorry, you probably got lost in the whole elitist conversation, which I accidently started :rolleyes:

*picks up dictionary*

Thats not going to happen again

 

It is not really that wierd, I know of other chapters that have a name, colour, badge and named their geneseed origin, and nothing else.

Most of these are 2nd Founding though, like the Black Guard and Destroyers

 

Ultramarines are pretty much standard

Imperial fists - similar except no cool spitting of acid.

 

I would be tempted to go with Ultra's but something like Salamanders would be good just for a change.

Who wants to spit acid and hibernate anyway? What loyal servent would want to stop fighting, or have the dishonour of spitting acid :D Ultras do make up around 66% of all chapters, so gives us a large number of trainer chapters (which generally come from same-seed chapters). Fists' could do the training & supply the seed due to the combat doctrine. But Sallies are cool. My favourite 3 legions ;)

 

 

Ferrata

[ironloki]

Raises hands in a mysterious Mod Ritual. "Rise my Son!!!"

 

So whats next to keep this mommentum going?

[Daeothar]

Me forts! Everybody's after me lucky forts...

[my_name_is_tudor]

I'm still firm on my vote for Imperial Fists for the gene seed, and training for that matter. Dorn was always my favourite Primarch..

 

What else needs discussing...

 

How do we feel on the idea of 20 50-man companies? Instead of 10 split up?

How do we feel on the idea of named companies?

How will said smaller companies be organised if we do have them? 5 tactical squads plus command? Or should they be more versatile if they are designed to function alone?

What on the subject of a higher number of chaplains? What about chaplain acolyte squads?

Do they 'abhor the witch' i.e. no Librarians?

 

more questions as I think of them... B)

 

My own answers to these questions are as follows:

 

1. I like the 20 companies of 50, then again I came up with it, so I'm a bit biased..

 

2. Named companies I like (again I am biased), but the sort of names chosen needs to be careful, do they have proper names, (for example the Salamanders' Firedrakes) or do they have names describing previous actions? (like titles rather than names)

 

3.I have always been interested in the idea of abandoning the veteran company. I always thought this seemed a bit 'eggs-in-one-basket' but in most chapters it doesn't matter, given that the 1st company rarely fights alone. In a chapter where every company is posted to a different ay fort, perhaps veteran squads would be local to a company, the company veterans rather than the chapter veterans.

 

4. I like the extra chaplains idea, perhaps (if we get rid of Librarians), chaplains take on the roles of a Librarian too? I also like the idea of small squads of marines having their faith tested by a leader-chaplain in the field.

 

What if the Chapter's chaplains were trained for the purpose from their initiation (i.e. after they successfully complete the pilgrimage), and thus the chapter has many more ranks of chaplain. These acolytes would be chosen by some sort of chief chaplain, to train as a battle chaplain rather than a standard battle brother.

 

5. I say no librarians. Given these are most often a defending force, they could probably do without navigators most of the time anyway.. I think..

 

++EDIT++ yeah, daeothar's forts need discussing too. Personally, I love the idea as he has put it currently. so theres not much to say on the subject from me, except a rather large :D

Edited August 18, 2005 by my_name_is_tudor

[ironloki]

I think Imperial fist training would be good but as for Geneseed im not really bothered as Its not going to effect the chapter that much anyway

 

How do we feel on the idea of 20 50-man companies? Instead of 10 split up?

I like the 20 small units - although that would lead to a commander for each company (Or perhaps we could rename the position to leuitenant (I just know i've spelt that wrong :D )

 

so perhaps its structured like

 

10 Company. - Captain

- 1st detachment - leuitenant (50 marines)

- 2nd detachment - leuitenant (50 marines)

 

So its essentially 10 companies but spilt up?

 

How do we feel on the idea of named companies?

 

Nah just keep it like 11th Co. or detachments or a similar name - easier that way

 

What on the subject of a higher number of chaplains? What about chaplain acolyte squads?

Perhaps have it that apothecaries are linked to Chaplains in some way - that way we have an actual physical way of showing Chaplains in Training?

 

Do they 'abhor the witch' i.e. no Librarians?

 

I would say no. Just keep the Librarians but in a lesser active battlefield role. The Librarians move further back into the shadows of the chapter while the Chaplains move forward.

 

Also what companies or how many are going to be planet based and how many fleet born?

[my_name_is_tudor]

Also what companies or how many are going to be planet based and how many fleet born?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ah, this has given me an idea. Perhaps the companies are organised as you say as two detachments of one company, and then the two detachments of each company take turns, one defending a way fort and the other heading out in their ships to smash up anyone hassling the pilgrims.

[Ferrata]

How do we feel on the idea of 20 50-man companies? Instead of 10 split up?

I like this idea, I'm sure I mentioned soemthing about it first, but who cares B) This ties in with small specialised units

 

How do we feel on the idea of named companies?

I think each company should be still numbered, thus easier to move around and discuss. But they have titles, which can change depending on what they have done. Maybe things like the 7th Company, Mourners of the Emperor's Grace (I know that sucks, but it was a quick thought)

 

How will said smaller companies be organised if we do have them? 5 tactical squads plus command? Or should they be more versatile if they are designed to function alone?

See Below

 

What on the subject of a higher number of chaplains? What about chaplain acolyte squads?

I think all sgt's should have some kind of chaplain training, extreme faith :)

 

Do they 'abhor the witch' i.e. no Librarians?

They should still have them, but more of a background role

 

I think Imperial fist training would be good but as for Geneseed im not really bothered as Its not going to effect the chapter that much anyway

If the fists train them, then its Dorn's seed their using :) For Dorn :D

 

Organisation being typed up in word

 

Ferrata

Edited August 18, 2005 by Ferrata

[my_name_is_tudor]

just to bring the point to light without all the other questions: what about my idea of having no veteran company? to quote my earlier post:

 

I have always been interested in the idea of abandoning the veteran company. I always thought this seemed a bit 'eggs-in-one-basket' but in most chapters it doesn't matter, given that the 1st company rarely fights alone. In a chapter where every company is posted to a different ay fort, perhaps veteran squads would be local to a company, the company veterans rather than the chapter veterans.

 

PS. sorry Ferrata, I didn't realise you had already mentioned the 20 companies idea, I thought all had been mentioned was the idea that the companies are split up.. :D

[Ferrata]

just to bring the point to light without all the other questions: what about my idea of having no veteran company? to quote my earlier post:

Just working on Organisation which doesnt include one :D

 

PS. sorry Ferrata, I didn't realise you had already mentioned the 20 companies idea, I thought all had been mentioned was the idea that the companies are split up..

No problems. Thinking about it, I said something like half companies (as in the detachment idea) so we're both correct B)

 

Ferrata

[Ferrata]

My Organisation Idea:

 

Chapter

Nth Company

1st Detachment (Space Bourne)

- 1st (Veteran) Squad (Terminator or Veteran Squads)

- 2nd Squad (Tactical)

- 3rd Squad (Tactical)

- 4th Squad (Tactical)

- 5th Squad (Tactical)

- 6th Squad (Tactical)

- 7th Squad (Assault)

- 8th Squad (Devastator)

 

2nd Detachment (Fort)

- 1st (Veteran) Squad (No Terminator Armour)

- 2nd Squad (Tactical)

- 3rd Squad (Tactical)

- 4th Squad (Tactical)

- 5th Squad (Tactical)

- 6th Squad (Assault)

- 7th Squad (Devastator)

- 8th Squad (Scout)

 

Armoured Detachment

- Predators

- Vindicators

- Whirlwinds

- Dreadnought

 

Chapter Master

- Honour Guard

 

Captain

- Command Squad

 

Lieutenant

- Veteran Squad

 

Sergeant

- Squad

 

All Squads are 6-men strong (including Leader)

All Squads have an attached Razorback.

Land Raiders for the Honour Guard and Command Squad

2nd Detachment acts as a Reserve for the 1st. So no Veteran, Scout or Reserve Companies

Assault Squads can deploy on Bikes or Speeders

Sergeants and above are all Chaplains (of some degree)

 

The small squads are to represent my specialist idea, but if this is not wanted/dropped. Then the 1st Detachment will be 1 Vet, 2 Tac, 1 Assualt & 1 Dev, while the 2nd Detachment will only have 1 Tac but a scout squad. Squads will be 10 men and have rhino's instead.

 

Ferrata

Edited August 18, 2005 by Ferrata

[Zhivago]

The small squads are to represent my specialist idea, but if this is not wanted/dropped. Then the 1st Detachment will be 1 Vet, 2 Tac, 1 Assualt & 1 Dev, while the 2nd Detachment will only have 1 Tac but a scout squad. Squads will be 10 men and have rhino's instead.

 

I think that in codex chapter, we'd get squads of ten. :D

also squad of ten can be divided to two squads of five, mirroring company set up.

 

 

Just throwing some possible ideas in.

 

detatchment

 

(staff)

 

3 tacticals

1 assault

1 devastator

 

?

 

Of course this brings problems with veteran company...

 

but then

 

1 veteran

2 tacticals

1 assult

1 devastator ?

 

while scouts be part of their company, and after pilgrimage transfered to companies ?

So that amount of scouts would be floating, as new get in and old get promoted ?

 

And if armoured detachements are divided to companies most likely to need them ?

And some in reserve or reprair and such ? On same note, having whole chapter at battle status whole time seems bit.. odd.. prehaps one or two reserve formations ? So that if one formation is damaged it can fall back safely with covering from other formation ?

[ironloki]

Done a quick piccy while my dinner was burning in the over to perhaps understand the forts idea.

 

Are we going for a 50-50 split of forces for land and space? or perhaps we do have a first company which is pure fleet?

 

Anyway here's a rough draft (obviously not as 2d as this but it should help visualise it)

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v63/illnino/Forts.jpg

 

 

The big planet to the bottom left and top right are perhaps two major homeworlds so perhaps the holy planet/pilgrimage planet would be in the middle of this?

[my_name_is_tudor]

@Ferrata, I think you have the organisation spot on there, hats off to you sir.

 

One question though, why sqauds of 6?

 

@IronLoki, nice illustration. I don't know however whether it would be better to represent the pilgrimage in a similar way to the 'Warrior Pilgrimages' illustrated on the last page of Codex: Space Marines, only superimposed over a map (read: square of cloudy and dotty space) of the region the systems are located?

 

This has also brought something I hadn't thought about before: Way forts can't really just be wobbling around in space, and as IronLoki suggests in the illustration they must be orbiting worlds (obvious I know, but I forgot to think about it..) so that means we have not one world to think about, not two, but.. well.. loads! - even if only a little detail.

[ironloki]

Oh yeah the map was just to envoke ideas. Good point about the forts. They are either going to have to be on planets or perhaps floating space forts like the deathstar etc and maybe some on Asteroids - perhaps a combination of all them?