+ IA: Imperial Castellans +

[my_name_is_tudor]

none-orbital forts is just too impractical in the long term, as without the gravitational hold of a planet the slightest push would send them drifting off somewhere. And given this chapter has been going for thousands of years, from the time they were first built and 'present day warhammer 40,000', they could have drifted veeeeery far from their original coordinates.

 

They're gonna have to be in tow around worlds, or perhaps structures like the Phalanx, which as it is capable of movement would be able to hold itself steady.

 

Asteroids is a possibility, as long as there are some asteroid belts along the way.

[Ferrata]

@Ferrata, I think you have the organisation spot on there, hats off to you sir.

 

One question though, why sqauds of 6?

 

Why thankyou kind sir of the underworld. I hope that the weather is pleasent, and the cook serves a good chicken ^_^

 

Squads of 6? Well, that was my specialised squad idea. Small squads of men, all armed for a single job. Maybe a hull breacher squad with a melta, multi-melta and a combi melta all ready to do thier duty for the chapter. Squads of 10 could work, maybe this could work -

 

Captain and 10 man Command Squad and Scout squad are placed in a Company, but not detachment. Maybe gewer companies for 60-70 marine detachments. Then there 2 sections of the company rotate, from being space bourne to planet. So every 5 years, the swap roles. The command squad tagging along with the space bourne one and the scout squad with the fort based. Maybe have 40 men in each detachment, then the extra 10 from command or scouts.

 

 

Just a thought, though I'm slightly drunk so it probably sucks.

 

Ferrata :)

[Brother-Librarian Akritedes]

My Organisation Idea:

 

Chapter

Nth Company

1st Detachment (Space Bourne)

- 1st (Veteran) Squad (Terminator or Veteran Squads)

- 2nd Squad (Tactical)

- 3rd Squad (Tactical)

- 4th Squad (Tactical)

- 5th Squad (Tactical)

- 6th Squad (Tactical)

- 7th Squad (Assault)

- 8th Squad (Devastator)

 

2nd Detachment (Fort)

- 1st (Veteran) Squad (No Terminator Armour)

- 2nd Squad (Tactical)

- 3rd Squad (Tactical)

- 4th Squad (Tactical)

- 5th Squad (Tactical)

- 6th Squad (Assault)

- 7th Squad (Devastator)

- 8th Squad (Scout)

 

Armoured Detachment

- Predators

- Vindicators

- Whirlwinds

- Dreadnought

 

Chapter Master

- Honour Guard

 

Captain

- Command Squad

 

Lieutenant

- Veteran Squad

 

Sergeant

- Squad

 

All Squads are 6-men strong (including Leader)

All Squads have an attached Razorback.

Land Raiders for the Honour Guard and Command Squad

2nd Detachment acts as a Reserve for the 1st. So no Veteran, Scout or Reserve Companies

Assault Squads can deploy on Bikes or Speeders

Sergeants and above are all Chaplains (of some degree)

 

The small squads are to represent my specialist idea, but if this is not wanted/dropped. Then the 1st Detachment will be 1 Vet, 2 Tac, 1 Assualt & 1 Dev, while the 2nd Detachment will only have 1 Tac but a scout squad. Squads will be 10 men and have rhino's instead.

 

Ferrata

 

In general, I like the overall layout of the organization. However, I really, really don't like the idea of six-man squads. From a strict table-top view, its good. From anywhere else, bad. I must agree with Zhivago, the best split would be a fifty-fifty down the middle with the company. Soo, my proposed revisions.

 

Nth Company,

1st Detachment (Spaceborne)

Captain, Apothecary, Chaplain, Standard Bearer, Company Standard Bearer, Company Champion, Command Squad.

1st Squad (Tactical)

2nd Squad (Tactical)

3rd Squad (Tactical)

7th Squad (Assault)

9th Squad (Devastator)

 

Support:

Dreadnoughts

Vindicators?

 

Nth Company,

2nd Detachment (Defense fort)

Lieutenant, Apothecary, Chaplain, Standard Bearer, Demi-Company Champion, Command Squad.

4th Squad (Tactical)

5th Squad (Tactical)

6th Squad (Tactical)

8th Squad (Assault)

10th Squad (Devastator)

 

Support:

Rhinos

Razorbacks

Land Speeders

Dreadnoughts

Predators

Vindicators

Whirlwinds

Earthshakers?

Bombards?

 

This gives us an even split, and keeps some of the stuff where it belongs (like most of the tanks). Scouts would definately go with the Orbital Fort/ground bases, although they may often be called away to perform missions for the spaceborne portion of the company. I like the idea of still having a veteran company, but splitting it into squad sized pieces and distributing it to trouble spots or other areas where their expertise is warranted. That keeps everything mostly codex, with a few minor tweaks.

 

Other odd points and stuff:

There are, as you may have noticed, three standard bearers. This was indeed intentional, as if they are to spend much of their time as a demi-company, the deeds they perform should reflect on them AND the company as a whole, neccessitating their own banner as well as a company banner. Same thing goes for the Apothecary and Chaplains, as they will need two senior Chaplains and Apothecaries. In fact, that offers an interesting possibility. We could combine Chaplains and Apothecaries, which only gives us more justificaton for taking Purity Above All... :)

 

Other then that, Ferrata's Org chart made sense, except for the six-man squad thing, which actually left the company at a total of only ninety-six marines. ^_^ Not overlarge, short of numbers? Bleh.

[ironloki]

Yeah I told him the 6 man squads thing was a pants idea. The rest looks cool Akritedes especially the standard bearer idea ^_^

[Brother-Librarian Akritedes]

Thanks. Any other thoughts on the Veteran company, anyone? It looks like this may be a point of contention, so let's try to hammer out what our thoughts are.

 

Myself, I really, really like the idea of them being a Terminator-heavy company, especially with those tower shields I mentioned waaaay back earlier in the thread. Use them and a Cyclone rack, and you've got a fortess wall with artillery behind it raining death and destruction on the enemy. I can just see them marching down a corridor in a shield wall, frag missiles and tracers blitzing up and down the length of the room as they advance implacably, storm bolters chanting a litany of hatred and Assault Cannons vigorously denying the enemy respite from the pounding shrapnel hurled from the missile explosions...

 

Ahem, dreaming over with, I like Terminator heavy. ^_^

 

Otherwise, I'd prefer to see them as their own company, although definately parceled out to the other eight companies, for specialized duties. Probably mostly for the spaceborne pieces, as garrison duty is less likely to need their expertise in the more deadly forms of combat. Close-quarters melees, house to house fighting, and boarding actions are where their tactical acumen and wisdom come in most handy, although they probably have a good eye for other work.

[Shadey]

Well, I don't beleive my points not meshing was an issue, anyway enough of that. I got attention now :devil:

 

Nth Company

1st Detachment (Space Bourne)

- 1st (Veteran) Squad (Terminator or Veteran Squads)

- 2nd Squad (Tactical)

- 3rd Squad (Tactical)

- 4th Squad (Tactical)

- 5th Squad (Tactical)

- 6th Squad (Tactical)

- 7th Squad (Assault)

- 8th Squad (Devastator)

Thanks. Any other thoughts on the Veteran company, anyone? It looks like this may be a point of contention, so let's try to hammer out what our thoughts are.

 

Myself, I really, really like the idea of them being a Terminator-heavy company, especially with those tower shields I mentioned waaaay back earlier in the thread.

 

Not a bad start. I prefer the full size companies but I am not going to lose any sleep over this if people decide otherwise.

 

In regards to the veteran company, I notice there is one extra tactical squad in the 1st detachment compared to the rest. Perhaps we should have that 6th Squad (tactical) as the Chaplain Acolyte squad, (is one enough?) Veterans could represent this both in terms of background and on the table top (vets with termi honours are hard enough, especially if an attached chaplain is mandatory).

 

But I also like the idea Akritedes mentioned of a termi heavy company.

 

Either way, I like those tower shield ideas too. I am buying the new termis soon and plan to try out a few with those large chaos knight/warrior shields, with the icons removed of course. Or it should be easy to scratch build. Just do not encourage me too much, I have enough armies to paint without adding the Imperial Castellans to it :P.

 

As for rules, are we going to keep it totally offical and only use the limited trait system and whatever restrictions we impose or are we going to get a little more creative.

 

Perhaps the tower shields give +1 to the inv making it a 4+. Being that this would take a hand otherwise used to hold the stormbolter (or possibly the powerfist but this may make them too weak) would be a good balance. And if they have the cyclone anyway.....

 

Rules discussion could go on though, would people rather see that in a different thread?

[Ferrata]

Captain, Apothecary, Chaplain, Standard Bearer, Company Standard Bearer, Company Champion, Command Squad.

I was going on that every rank of sergeant or above are Chaplains, which shows the Castellans faith. So a Captain would be a very high ranking Chaplain, so would another be required?

 

With the organisation as it is, we have a small problem. In regular chapters, the reserve companies do duties such as speeder driving, tank driving (I think), so who would do this for the Castellans if they have no reserve companies?

 

 

Here's Brother-Librarian Akritedes organisation as I see it would be improved

 

Nth Company

 

Command Section

Captain, Company Champion, Company Standard Bearer, Apothecary

Command Squad

 

1st Detachment

Lieutenant, Detachment Champion, Detachment Standard Bearer, Apothecary

Command Squad

1st Squad (Tactical)

3rd Squad (Tactical)

5th Squad (Tactical)

7th Squad (Assault)

9th Squad (Devastator)

 

2nd Detachment

Lieutenant, Detachment Champion, Detachment Standard Bearer, Apothecary

Command Squad

2nd Squad (Tactical)

4th Squad (Tactical)

6th Squad (Tactical)

8th Squad (Assault)

10th Squad (Devastator)

 

Armoured Detachment

 

Scout Squad

 

Differences -

 

Swapped 2nd and 5th Squads around. So 1st Detachment = Odds, 2nd = Evens. Nothing important but it just adds that little more military feeling (I think)

 

Removed Chaplains, as officers are chaplains

 

Made the Captain in his own section, not dedicated to a detachment. This means he can be where he is needed, also see below.

 

Scouts and Armoured removed from detachments, reason below.

 

I can see marines not getting enough action if they are stuck on the forts all the time, or becoming slack (which we dont want). So if the 1st and 2nd Detachments change roles every x years, then they will keep sharp. By removing the command, tanks and scouts from the detachment they can be with the one which is more suitable.

 

This does leave us with having 14 squads in each company (6 Tac, 2 Assault, 2 Dev, 3 Command, 1 Scout). Which means 140 men, so 1400 men in the chapter. Are we ok with this, or if we drop the scout company, so only 9 companies we have 1260 men, or 8 companies and 1120 men.

 

Plus we need to sort out the veterans. Own Company (always deployed as themselves) or spread across the chapter? Maybe not have a defense veteran detachment, just the boarding detachment. Something like this -

 

Captain, Company Champion, Company Standard Bearer, Apothecary

Command Squad

1st Veteran Squad

2nd Veteran Squad

3rd Veteran Squad

4th Veteran Squad

5th Veteran Squad

 

All can wear Termie Armour. This gives the chapter around 60 suits, which could be plausable.

 

As for rules, are we going to keep it totally offical and only use the limited trait system and whatever restrictions we impose or are we going to get a little more creative

 

I would like the whole thing to be offical (well, rule wise). Maybe using "count as" rules, but nothing else.

 

Ferrata

[my_name_is_tudor]

I'd personally like to see the veterans split with 1 or 2 squads going to each company, perhaps only in the 'offense' detachment. I think this reinforces the idea of individual, self reliant units, that need not call for aid from the veteran company/armoury - as they have their own terminators/tanks - allowing them to function more independently.

[Zhivago]

With the organisation as it is, we have a small problem. In regular chapters, the reserve companies do duties such as speeder driving, tank driving (I think), so who would do this for the Castellans if they have no reserve companies?

 

Thats why I suggested having one or two reserve companies. For scout to marine training and to form crew pool.

[Brother-Librarian Akritedes]

Well, if you look at a codex chapter's organization, they actually have a lot more then a hundred Marines. Ten squads, plus command, support, armor, and APCs. So a hundred and forty plus armor ain't that bad.

 

As for the reserve companies, they do NOT drive the tanks or speeders. Bikes, Land Speeders, and Jump Packs are the duty of Assault marines, and they are usually drawn from the twenty already part of the company. Driving, I think is done by the Techmarines and other Armory attachements, such as serfs or servitors. <_< Now, the Assault Company probably would be responsible for a lot of driving and such, but that's only one company.

 

Which reminds me, the reserve companies are all one squad. Do we want to change that? For example, Sixth Company has one hundred Tactical Marines, in ten squads, and Eighth has one hundred Assault Marines, in ten squads. We could easily swap that out and just have them in the same pattern as a Battle Company...

[Zhivago]

  Well, if you look at a codex chapter's organization, they actually have a lot more then a hundred Marines. Ten squads, plus command, support, armor, and APCs. So a hundred and forty plus armor ain't that bad.

 

As for the reserve companies, they do NOT drive the tanks or speeders. Bikes, Land Speeders, and Jump Packs are the duty of Assault marines, and they are usually drawn from the twenty already part of the company. Driving, I think is done by the Techmarines and other Armory attachements, such as serfs or servitors. unsure.gif Now, the Assault Company probably would be responsible for a lot of driving and such, but that's only one company.

 

Which reminds me, the reserve companies are all one squad. Do we want to change that? For example, Sixth Company has one hundred Tactical Marines, in ten squads, and Eighth has one hundred Assault Marines, in ten squads. We could easily swap that out and just have them in the same pattern as a Battle Company...

 

Well, someone said on this forum that reserve companies for example, drive rhinos and such, while predators have crew from chapter forge (techmarine aspirants). We could say that Castellans train their tactical marines to operate rhinos and razorbacks, or something like that and then have the forge to send&lease armoured support with their crews to independent companies.

[Ferrata]

Thats why I suggested having one or two reserve companies. For scout to marine training and to form crew pool.

 

We've kinda got the scout idea down, just need those who like the details of such rituals to come back and discuss things. They do their training move from one way-fort to the next. Maybe not getting that much battle experience, but this maybe something the Castellans live with.

 

I say we have 8 companies of that layout I posted above (If everyone's happy with the detachment organisation). That means we have 1120, plus veterans and tanks. We could have a 1st Company, but they dont go around together, it's just a status company.

 

Ferrata

 

Updated Second Post to show area's which are needed for an IA article. What do people think of the title "Keepers of the Faith"

 

Gene-seed

 

The Imperial Castellans where granted the honoured Gene-seed of Rogal Dorn, the great Primarch of the Imperial Fist Legion. The gene-seed lacks the sus-an membrane and the Beltchers gland, though the Castellans do not need to sleep while the Emperor guides them, or spit acid while they still fight. The gene-seed is extremely stable and has shown no signs of mutation or further loss of organs.

 

How's that for the gene-seed section? Need rewording/more adding?

Edited August 20, 2005 by Ferrata

[Shadey]

I was going on that every rank of sergeant or above are Chaplains, which shows the Castellans faith.

 

Sorry, I meant to add I really do like this idea but I wanted a trainee chaplain squad in there too. But if that is too much stick with your idea.

 

Though imagine being able to buy a rosarius and crozius arcanum for every sgt and above. :P. Well, power weapons could represent the crozius and perhaps rosarius' are only given to higher ranking chaplains, ie ones that are officially chaplains in the list. Combat shields could represent a lower quality rosarius.

 

Iron halo could count as one too.

 

Actually, im starting to like this every Sgt and above as a Chaplain alot....

 

The geneseed wording seems pretty good.

 

Edit: OK about the ICs using Ultra's geneseed. Basically everything I find does not mention their geneseed origin. Which leads me to beleive that GW have not devloped one and that therefore the site I saw before, and my memory was in error.

 

Still checking.

Edited August 20, 2005 by Shadey

[Brother-Librarian Akritedes]

I mostly like it, although it seems like there's a...less formal scribe writing it. Lessee...

 

Gene-seed

 

The Imperial Castellans where granted the honoured Gene-seed of Rogal Dorn, the great Primarch of the Imperial Fist Legion. They, like their fore-fathers, scorn the loss of the Sus-an Membrane and the Betcher's gland. What need has one of His Angels of Death the ability to hibernate? What use for toxin can one of His Finest possibly desire?

There we are. I think that captures the mentality of actually preferring not to have the organs a bit better. Of course, its more arrogant, but what use for falsities does the Emperor's devoted have? :P

 

But yeah, me likey "Keepers of the Faith". As for the layout, looks good. Although, I'd still support having a full ten companies. Let's them have those eighteen way-forts, assuming we want that many.

Edited August 20, 2005 by Brother-Librarian Akritedes

[Commissar Molotov]

Both of these are filled with too much rhetoric. An Index Astartes article is not there to defend the Castellans and say they're still good marines without the two organs. It's intended to be factual.

 

The Imperial Castellans draw their heritage from Rogal Dorn and the Imperial Fists; their gеле-seed is second only in stability and purity to that of the Ultramarines. The Castellans have never exhibited any obvious signs of mutation. As with all Imperial Fists successors they no longer possess the Betchers Gland or the Sus-an Membrane.

 

Something like that would be far more fitting, I believe.

[Zhivago]

We've kinda got the scout idea down, just need those who like the details of such rituals to come back and discuss things. They do their training move from one way-fort to the next. Maybe not getting that much battle experience, but this maybe something the Castellans live with.

I rad that part, I just figured they'd recieve training in use of power armour somewhere. :) But at least this is unique this way.

 

I say we have 8 companies of that layout I posted above (If everyone's happy with the detachment organisation). That means we have 1120, plus veterans and tanks. We could have a 1st Company, but they dont go around together, it's just a status company.

 

Sounds good to me. Then we'd need at least eight forts, yes ?

[Ferrata]

Sorry, I meant to add I really do like this idea but I wanted a trainee chaplain squad in there too. But if that is too much stick with your idea.

 

The problem with a trainee chaplain squads is that its not in the codex. We could go straight codex, and use honour guard as Chaplains. Thus you could have a full squad, or upgrade members of a squad to a chaplain role. I'm still not sure about the whole cdoex chapter using Ultramarine special units/characters though. Was this ever officialised? I think, at first, we should stick too strictly legal.

 

Both of these are filled with too much rhetoric. An Index Astartes article is not there to defend the Castellans and say they're still good marines without the two organs. It's intended to be factual.

 

I've always thought the IA articles where more the Imperium's view on the chapter, not a player view. I was trying to get it across that the Castellans are proud not to have them organs, it was inspiration from the B+C. Cant remember who said it (it was one of the mods), someone said Dorn and the Fists where the worst Legion, and they said something along the lines of "What loyal servent of the Emperor would want to spit acid?". Yours does so ok, maybe fluff it up a bit?

 

As for the way-forts, I was thinking of 8 major forts, where the detachments are stationed. And then each major fort had several lesser forts in its region, which the chapter could use to defend that area or use as a base.

 

Ferrata

[Ferrata]

New Trait -

 

Preaching the Faith

 

The Chapter is extremely pious and spreads the faith of the Emperor where ever they are. Any Veteran or Tactical squad may upgrade its Veteran Sergeant to be a Chaplain. This upgrade costs a further +35 points and includes equipping the Chaplain with a Crozius Arcanum. The Chaplain confers the following special rules to any model within 6

[ironloki]

Too complex wording I think. Simply say the chapter uses Purity above all to represent the trainee Chaplains.

 

I was looking at the church (Catholic) hierarchy for some alternative names for the chaplains wannabees.

 

A simple priest may work or you could go for a Deacon but I think the simple term priest would work

 

SCC's done a chaplain character for his Brazen claws Link

 

This chap is a junior Chaplain, or as they used to be known, an Initiate. As with my other junior Astartes officers, no in-game effects, just an excuse to do some minor converting and indivualise the model & squad.

[Ferrata]

Too complex wording I think. Simply say the chapter uses Purity above all to represent the trainee Chaplains.

 

You should know by now I can never do the simple thing, that would be to easy :blush: Maybe just say they use the special rules for the Nath/Red and thats it. Makes it a bit special, but not too complicated.

 

Ferrata

[ironloki]

I think we should leave the rules towards the end. What important thing needs to get hammered out at the moment?

[Ferrata]

Sorry, got distracted :blush:

 

Introduction - Nothing to discuss, just needs writing

 

Origins - Mid-Founding. Need to discuss actual number. History needed

 

Home world - Location, names etc Way-fort system

 

Combat Doctrine - discussed a bit, but not really finalised on

 

Organisation - discussed. fine details needed

 

Beliefs - How close to the ell. are they? Total believers or kinda believers?

 

Gene-seed - Done

 

Battle-cry - Needed

 

Using a Imperial Castellans Army in Warhammer 40,000 - leave till end

 

Also need the scout thing

 

Ferrata

[Shadey]

Ok I have a few ideas for the rules but will leave them till later.

 

I still like the idea of the space bourne scouts, if only for the modelling oppurtunity of representing them in full armour (not power armour, just fully sealed scout armour) Perhaps adeptus arbites would make a good base for conversions.

 

As for the Battlecry, hmm I can see this being very subjective. A poll may not be a bad idea for this. Being so subjective it would probably always be more about popular opinion than any reasoned argument. As long as they are all appropriate.

 

Perhaps something with a nod toward thier defence and their faith. - Our faith is our defence (Not great but you get the idea)

 

I did find a few things we could use as names for the chaplains:

 

Rector (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12676c.htm)

(From the Latin regere, to rule). Priests who preside over missions or quasi-parishes are called rectors. - Kind of ties in with reclusiarch. Mainly sounds good.

Pontifice or Pontifical Chaplains from Pontificiale (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12231a.htm) A liturgical book which contains the rites for the performance of episcopal functions (e.g. conferring of confirmation and Holy orders). - Now that kinda sounds like our chaplain sergeants jobs.

Palatine - from Palatini (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11417a.htm) - Not really approiate but it sounds good.

Or perhaps Redemptorists? There is plenty more at the above site, its just finding them.

[Brother-Librarian Akritedes]

Introduction - Nothing to discuss, just needs writing

Alrighty then. Do we want to appoint someone to write it, or would you prefer to do it yourself? I'll volunteer, if you wish... :blush:

 

Origins - Mid-Founding. Need to discuss actual number. History needed.

I'd say 10th to 16th Founding. Gives us a good range, and lets us skip the accursed Cursed Founding. History wise, it's really the same issue as the Introduction. You want it or should someone else take it?

 

Home world - Location, names etc Way-fort system

Easy enough. This one needs some discussion, but we should be able to arrive on a number of Way-forts and an area of space for us to inhabit/pollute with our minds. So I'd recommend we do this one next.

 

Combat Doctrine - discussed a bit, but not really finalised on.

Again, more discussion required. Take this one after organization, me thinks.

 

Organisation - discussed. fine details needed.

I agree, we need to finalize the little things. Get it after Home-worlds?

 

Beliefs - How close to the ell. are they? Total believers or kinda believers?

I'd say kinda. A lot of the Ecclesiarchal dogma would paint them as almostbutnotquite bad guys and mutants, which I don't think they'd like. Perhaps instead have them worship the God-Emperor as a diety, take on some of the practices of the Ministorum, but not all. Junior Chaplain wise, I'd go for the simple yet old route and call 'em Brother-Initiates, as opposed to Battle-Brothers. So a squad would be lead be a Brother-Initiate, and made up of Battle Brothers. The next step up would be a full chaplain, so we'd have to give older Initiates seniority of age. A Terminator still outranks a squad Sergeant that way.

 

Gene-seed - Done

Battle-cry - Needed

Hrrm...I'll try to think of something in a bit, but we should probably think this one over and discuss it a bit. I'd go for something suitably archaic and knightish.

 

Using a Imperial Castellans Army in Warhammer 40,000 - leave till end

 

Also need the scout thing

[Ferrata]

Alrighty then. Do we want to appoint someone to write it, or would you prefer to do it yourself? I'll volunteer, if you wish...

 

You can write it if you want. You know what I'm on about right? That bolded bit before origins, around 75 words -ish

 

History wise, it's really the same issue as the Introduction. You want it or should someone else take it?

 

The plan for history was to discuss any major happenings (if we want any) Then just say "You write one piece in this period" "Your write this period" then I will join them up into some kind of readable piece

 

Homeworld and Way-Forts Discussion

 

Ferrata