Brother Chaplain Ryld Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 I have just started a DIY army, The Stormcrows and was wanting them to be a Raptors sucessor army. Does anyone know where I can get some info on this chapter? I understand the Raptors had some trouble with geneseed, and was wondering if this was true, and wether it affected the sucessor chapters. I was wanting to use Raptors as not many people I know do. Most DIY armies in my area are from Ultramarine or BA stock. I have Ultramarines, so not really wanting to go there. Also, the Raptors have some nice stuff on Forge World, so I would use their doors for my Rhino's and Raiders. Any help would be sweet. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Librarian- Melechor Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 I believe the raptors are Raven Guard successors, but I can't quite remember if they had a problem or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted April 8, 2006 Share Posted April 8, 2006 The Raptors are indeed of Raven Guard seed, so your chapter will be an Raven Guard successor, but you can say they were trained by the Raptors hance their link with the chapter. Try a searchy here at the B&C for more info, or I think they we're the subject of one of the Imperial Armour books (maybe number 3) I'll go check. Ferrata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chaplain Ryld Posted April 8, 2006 Author Share Posted April 8, 2006 Gee, I didn't do my homework very well, did I? 3 editions worth of Codicies at home, all saying Raptors are a Raven Guard successor chapter. :D OK, still works, so thanks for that big bit of info guys. The training idea is a good one Ferrata. I will put that down on the ideas pad. ++edit++ Well, after looking a bit harder :) , I found the above sticky on do's and dont's on chapter creation. It says Raven Guard and Blood Angels are rarely used due to genetic abnormalities inherent in their gene seed. I guess that means I will look at doing another rethink over the origins of my newly founded chapter. Possibly UM/IF geneseed, but trained with/by Raptors. I like the idea of Raptors iconography, with a fast themed army. Speeders, assaulters and drop pods was the theme I was going for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Aside from Index Astartes: Volume III, the major fluff source for the Raptors is here. Whilst it says that the Raven Guard gene-seed is 'rarely' used, it's not 'never' used, like the Space Wolves. You could have a Raven Guard successor chapter if you wanted, if it added a lot to your theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Whilst it says that the Raven Guard gene-seed is 'rarely' used, it's not 'never' used, like the Space Wolves I thought the Space Wolf seed was pretty much never used (after the Wolf Brother incident). While the Raven Guards, White Scars, Iron hands, Salamanders and Dark Angels gene-seed is rarely used. And the Imperial Fists and Ultramarine Seed is used commonly. Ferrata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Rex Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 As Molly and Ferrata both said, Raven Guard geneseed is rare, but is used. If it adds something to the character of your DIY then go for it, but check out the Raven Guard IA article to see what geneseed implants they are missing (Yours will be missing them too) and any other info you can find on the RG and successors to see if this inspires you about how that might affect your own chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 Whilst it says that the Raven Guard gene-seed is 'rarely' used, it's not 'never' used, like the Space Wolves I thought the Space Wolf seed was pretty much never used (after the Wolf Brother incident). While the Raven Guards, White Scars, Iron hands, Salamanders and Dark Angels gene-seed is rarely used. And the Imperial Fists and Ultramarine Seed is used commonly. Ferrata Ferrata, when I said 'it's not 'never' used, like the Space Wolves', I wasn't saying 'The Space Wolves' gene-seed isn't 'never' used'. ^_^ So I said exactly what you did. ^_^ Now, with regards to the Raven Guard's gene-seed, several of their organs malfunction. The Raven Guard do not have a Betcher's Gland. This means that they can no longer spit acid. They also no longer have a Mucranoid Gland. The Mucranoid is used to cover the skin with a thin layer of an oily substance that coats the skin, and protects the Marine against certain extremes of temperature, and offers a slight amount of protection in other environments (like the vacuum of space). Their most distinctive mutation, however, is found within the Melanchrome (or Melanchromic Organ). As a Raven Guard marine gets older, their skin grows paler, whilst their hair and eyes darken. Eventually they will have skin as pale as snow, and hair and eyes as dark as night. As a successor chapter, your marines would have these same flaws (though none of these flaws will especially affect your chapter's fighting prowess). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chaplain Ryld Posted April 9, 2006 Author Share Posted April 9, 2006 Thanks for the info guys, especially Commissar Molotov for the info on the Raven Guard. I have made a note of the Chapter Creation ideas, and will look at how some of the other Frater have set theirs out and hopefully I will have something tangible in the not too far future for everyone to pick holes in :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted April 9, 2006 Share Posted April 9, 2006 ...hopefully I will have something tangible in the not too far future for everyone to pick holes in :P I look forward to it. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chaplain Ryld Posted April 12, 2006 Author Share Posted April 12, 2006 Ok, i have given my DIY chapter a lot of thought over the last few days and have decided to go with a Raven Guard successor chapter. The names I have thought of so far are 'Sons of Corax" or 'Wings of Corax". Sons of Corax is pretty straight forward, but Wings of Corax hints at the chapters preference of fast attack, infiltrate and drop pods, all of which I will be using in my army. Chapter symbols is a bit undecided, and I was wondering if I could have some advice in that area. I thought a wing attatched to a 'C' for the wings of Corax, and can only come up with a 'C' for sons of Corax. ;) Any help would be greatly appreciated with both chapter iconography or name. ^_^ As far as chapter history/background goes, I won't have anything for a few weeks. I have a doubles tournament next weekend, so I am putting the finishing touches on my Ultras army. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I've heard other 'Sons of Corax' chapters before, but the 'Wings of Corax' is more original. I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astartes Consul Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Now, with regards to the Raven Guard's gene-seed, several of their organs malfunction. The Raven Guard do not have a Betcher's Gland. This means that they can no longer spit acid. They also no longer have a Mucranoid Gland. The Mucranoid is used to cover the skin with a thin layer of an oily substance that coats the skin, and protects the Marine against certain extremes of temperature, and offers a slight amount of protection in other environments (like the vacuum of space). Their most distinctive mutation, however, is found within the Melanchrome (or Melanchromic Organ). As a Raven Guard marine gets older, their skin grows paler, whilst their hair and eyes darken. Eventually they will have skin as pale as snow, and hair and eyes as dark as night. As a successor chapter, your marines would have these same flaws (though none of these flaws will especially affect your chapter's fighting prowess). I thought genetic deviances lessened as they were used? As in, the Raptor's genetic deviances would be slightly less that the Raven Guards, and if you drew gene seed from the Raptors then the Raven Guards deviances would be even less prominent. Did that make sense??? Any way, I like the idea you've got, and white skin and black hair is very cool, but what colour armour are you planing to use? cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I thought genetic deviances lessened as they were used? Actually they are more likely worsen as they are progressed. The more times you tamper/use a gene-seed, the more likely a mutation will occur. Ferrata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasleah Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I thought genetic deviances lessened as they were used? As in, the Raptor's genetic deviances would be slightly less that the Raven Guards, and if you drew gene seed from the Raptors then the Raven Guards deviances would be even less prominent. Not really. Remember when the Second Founding was started, they simply carved up the Legions and rebranded them. So even though they became Raptors, they still had the original Raven Guard geneseed. Mutation is inherited from the primogenitor Legion from which that Chapter can draw it's parentage from - although of course, time can mutate, along with more extreme outside influence (it's always been my theory that psyhcic resonance shapes geneseed the most, but that's another tale) So a 'pure' Raven Guard successor, no matter how many Foundings removed from the original, should manifest the same mutations to the same degree. Ignoring other influences or individual influence on part of the chosen primogenitor. Or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Ferrata: In this case, we're not talking about tampering with gene-seed. Fuzzball: You're wrong. The cycle goes: Marine --> Two Progenoids ---> Two Marines ---> Four Progenoids ---> Four Marines ---> Eight Progenoids And so on. The only difference between a Raven Guard marine and a Raptors marine is the colour of their armour. Genetically, the gene-seed is the same. The only thing that can happen is when a successor chapter's progenoids mutate, because they use a seperate supply to their Progenitor. In other words: Dasleah's correct. :unsure: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Rex Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I would have to agree with Dasleah and Ferrata that all chapters from the Raven Guard stock would be likely to have the same flaws. There was a whole thread I started on this subject before the Great Burn, but unfortunately it was lost in the warp with the reboot. It looked at what flaws the first founders had, if they would be passed onto their successors or not... It also warned against 'miracle cures' for your chapter that the parent doesn't have, but that more degradation would seem more likely. I didn't keep a copy on my drive but I think Ferrata is working on a version 2. Would you like to restart the thread on this, Ferrata? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Ferrata: In this case, we're not talking about tampering with gene-seed.I was using the word tampering in terms of general usage. Not the actual poking around and genetically modifing the seed, but just using it over and over again. Would you like to restart the thread on this, Ferrata? Working on it. Should see it soon..... Ferrata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dasleah Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 In other words: Dasleah's correct. :unsure: Ooooooh yeah :blush: I suppose constant replication from the start of cloning geneseed would cause degredation from generation to generation. But you're assuming that they clone the cloned geneseed. Which I suppose according to the fluff they do, but I find it more a plausible that they only clone from the original geneseed until the others pass their purity checks and then they start using those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar Molotov Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 As I understand, they don't use the cloning process anymore. The progenoids develop over time and are then harvested. From the progenoids (stem cells?) they create the organs, and implant the organs in a marine. Over time the progenoid glands develop... the cycle continues, without genetic degredation - unless a marine is genetically damaged himself (radiation, mutation, etc...) in which case he would likely pass it on into his progenoids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrata Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 There will be genetic degrediation over time, however slow. There also will be genetic advancement, but due to the un-natural process of the use, either could stay and contine. Naturally, genetic degrediation is removed, will genetic advancement continues. Ferrata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chaplain Ryld Posted April 13, 2006 Author Share Posted April 13, 2006 Any way, I like the idea you've got, and white skin and black hair is very cool, but what colour armour are you planing to use? cheers http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c73/george852/Veteran1.jpg http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c73/george852/Veteran2.jpg Here is a marine that I painted for a thread over at Eternity Gate. I was going to use the same scheme, but with a different trim, possibly black to tie in with the Raven Guard. The robes would be either blue or green. I think I might mail order the Vet Sergeants powerfist to use on all my vets with fists. It has nice eagle wings on the shoulder pad. Worthy of all veteran sergeants me thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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