New Space Wolf Codex

[wisey1986]

I thought I'd start a post to see what other Space Wolf players think GW will change/add to the new codex, when it comes out.

 

Just some of my thoughts ...

 

2 levels for all of the characters,

Different/better psychic powers,

Option for wolf guard squads without a character,

Changes to the weapons options in squads? (some people say 3 power fists in a blood claw squad is too many, 4 if you have a wolf guard! I don't ... I have 8 power fists in my 1500 point army.)

Inclusion of the 13th Company,

Different special rules?

 

What do you think?

[space wolf]

I honestly dont know what we'll see but what i expect is drastic changes. Ever since 4th ed came out what made the SW good (asside from the PW's) became the norm for nilla marines. truegrit and countercharge is now avaliable as well as night vision, etc. while the SW are still a great army, they have lost some of their uniqueness, which everyone knows the SW should have in spades. I expect there will be some pretty significant changes to the list.

[ThralKhan]

I think with fluff considered, I think they should keep the Wolf Lord, Rune Priest, and Wolf Priest like they are.

I would like to see more psychic powers, too.

Wolf Guard are leaders are bodyguards...keep as it...they're not Chosen.

I would like to see the Iron Priest have the same options as the Techmarine (harness, servitors/thralls, etc) except instead of a power weapon, give him the thunder hammer.

I hope they keep the LR Exterminator...very fluffy...

Incorporate the 13th Co somehow...or at least have 1-6 Wulfen as a 0-1 Elites or Fast attack choice (with scout, fleet, etc)

Do something with Long Fangs...either lower the points a bit, or allow at least 6 gunners...tank hunters would also be nice.

Honestly, I'm scared of what might come out of the new Codex...Space Wolves were my first army, and still my favorite.

[Skjold Bloodmaw]

Honestly, after watching GW slap BT upside the head with the nerf bat, i'm not optomistic. On the other hand, Tau have a very new and exciting Codex, so maybe we'll see that side of things. Considering BT and SW are the two forces most people cry "cheese" at, it wouldn't shock me to see us get some love from the Nerf line of toys. Anyway, here's what i'd *like* to see happen:

 

-Reduced points cost for Venerable Dread

-HQ units gain Codex:SM abilities, or Wolfy versions

-New psychic powers

-Servo-harness for Iron Priest

-LRE stays, at a very slight reduction in points cost (maybe 10ish)

-Grey Hunter bikers

-Jump Packs for ICs (you're telling me a Wolf Lord will hop on a bike and crash into the enemy, but is too scared to strap a jump pack on and fling himself there? Please.)

-Slightly reduced cost Long Fangs. Pack Leader access to the armory. Or the option of an Auspex in his gear list.

-Fenrisian Wolf Packs

-Combat Shields

-And finally, incorporate the 13th Company into the SW Codex.

[Lord Ragnarok]

I almost got into a heated exchange about the so-called SW cheese at my last match as my opponent was destroying my packs with three furious charging squads and an 8 man grey knight termie squad. So much for SW cheese.

 

I hadn't realized that the BT's had been nerfed. Hopefully they do not do the same to us. I do not look forward to a new codex. Let them take as long as possible.

[Wolf Lord Duregar]

Dare I say it... The Black Templares dexerved that nerf, more or less... :D In my humble opinion ofcourse...

 

-Reduced points cost for Venerable Dread

Ours is still a good buy compared to the Vanillias, for a few more points we get far better stats, Old & Wise plus better weapon options.

 

-HQ units gain Codex:SM abilities, or Wolfy versions

-New psychic powers

-Servo-harness for Iron Priest

Definetly a big yes on all points!! B)

 

-LRE stays, at a very slight reduction in points cost (maybe 10ish)

Hmm... I personally don

[Skjold Bloodmaw]

Dare I say it... The Black Templares dexerved that nerf, more or less... :D In my humble opinion ofcourse...

Agreed.

 

Ours is still a good buy compared to the Vanillias, for a few more points we get far better stats, Old & Wise plus better weapon options.

Eh, I guess. I suppose the increased WS, BS and Old & Wise is worth the points difference, all in all. But I think we'll lose most of the weapons options we have now, sadly.

 

Hmm... I personally don

[Maladon]

give rune priests the psychic hood.....

- grey hunters the option of two assault weapons...

- blood claws a option for furious charge along with the berserker charge.... :D

- long fangs a 10 man squad? and cheaper at that.

 

rules for generic wolf lords- as in DYI WL.

 

-wolf scouts the option of all scouts with sniper rifles, but still keep the 0-1 option for the table edge.

[ThralKhan]

now I'm going to open up another can of worms...

 

what do you all think of an HQ for every 750 points, rounded up? Stay or go?

 

Sometimes I like the idea of being able to load up a 2000 point game with a Lord and Wolf Priest AND take a Ven Dread as an HQ, freeing up my 3 Elites slots for scouts and Wolf Guard...other times, it can be a hassle...

 

And I hope they don't screw up our scouts!

[Lord Ragnarok]

Even though it can be a pain in da buttocks(sometimes I have to run an almost naked WGBL), I like the three HQ for seven fitty rule. It gives us extra flavor.

[wisey1986]

I do think something needs to be done about bikes, they are more points than normal marine bikes and much worse. If they get charged you only get 1 attack.

 

The Dread is the right points cost, a re-roll for first turn wins games.

 

I forgot about the iron priest, he definately needs changing. Also the psychic hood thing for the Rune priest.

 

The thing about the ICs is that your psychic tests are based on Ld so it pays to take a higher level Librarian, where as we have no option. Again with the wounds, Chaplains and librarians have the option to have 3 wounds.

 

Wolfy rules for ICs would be cool as well. Maybe a benifit to a Wolf Priest for leading Blood claws seeing as he initiated them... we have no fearless rule for him.

 

I took my long fangs out of my list for a predator because of points, so it would be nice to have them back in my army as it has a better feel.

 

I accept the point about Wolf guard not being independant units.

 

We have no scout bike option either.

 

Having said all this, I love my space wolf army list. I hardly ever lose and I do worry I'll lose all my power fists when they change the rules!!!

[frostclaw222]

What I wish for:

 

An Iron Priest we'll use. Granted, everyone wants him to keep the hammer, but I'm not sure. Perhaps a slightly different servo harness, to represent the fact that the IP is different than a techmarine. And make him an option for HQ and Elite, if only because the same cloned WGBL over and over again isn't very wolfy.

 

The two level ICs, yes. Wolf Lords with the commander ability, definitely. Wolf Priests with litanies is a no-go, and I think anyone who's had any sort of success with Blood Claws will tell you why. It'd be too much. But a different ability to represent that they're not just Chaplains but also Apothecaries to boot might be possible. Rune Priests with a selection similar to, but not identical to the Codex Librarians would be nice, as well.

 

Some sort of Wolf Guard assault squad. We're supposedly one of the nastier melee chapters, but it seems the older the line animal Wolves keep moving away from the thick of combat, first to riflemen (GH), then to heavy crew weapons (LF). I'm not saying rip off the Blood Angels or the Templars' Sword Brethren, but I'd like to see something. Definite veteran skills for these guys. Jump packs? I'm not sure; the "as Russ intended" bit is nice and all that, but it's a pretty thin excuse for a tactical advantage being ignored. Maybe just hardened GHs instead of WG.

 

Integration of the 13th Company, somehow. Not fully returning them to Chapter service, but something. Maybe the above assault squad could be returned 13th Company that have chosen to mingle with their descendants. 10,000 years in the EoT would make them veterans, alright.

 

An armory that doesn't make the Chapter look like someone just forgot half the stuff we need.

 

Maybe make GH packs able to buy veteran skills of a limited selection.

 

More characters. More fluff.

 

LF packs that are priced to be used, with some options of veteran skills. We've debated how to improve them time and again, how to get them ablative wounds without defluffing them, etc. The way to improve them is to make them affordable, and no longer tie the splitfire to the sergeant. In the rules, somewhere, it states for every other unit that a special or heavy weapon could be picked up by another soldier and carried along, hence the inability to target support weapon troops. Plus, every one of those old codgers is capable of running a squad, and more than likely has at some point in their centuries of warfare.

 

No change to the Venerable Dreadnought, or at least make Bjorn what the present dread is, so that we have some chance of keeping our unique dreadnought template.

 

Some really cool models. My dream list is the following:

 

New Ragnar sculpt. We all know this needs to be done. Dynamic pose.

 

New SW dreadnought. Not that the old one sucks, but a plastic dread with SW bits would be nice.

 

New Ulrik sculpt. Almost as necessary as Ragnar.

 

New SW sprues for GH/BC and scouts. That way, you can buy a standard scout box, slap the wolfy sprues on, and away you go. For the power armor sprue, include a wolf helm, suitably altered crozius, new heads, some variant chainswords and axes, as well as kit for equipping several wolf guard well instead of maybe two. For the scout sprue, cloaks, weapons to cover the difference between the two scout packages and what the wolf scouts have as options, and some new heads. Not only will these sprues sell like hotcakes with the new heads, GW'll enhance sales of the older sprue if only because new gamers want the variety.

 

Would also love to see a Wolf Lord box similar to the SM commander, but don't think this likely.

 

 

What I expect will disappear:

 

LRE.

 

 

I really don't fear the nerf stick. The BT list in 3rd was a lot more unbalanced than I think ours was, IMO, or at least more open to being unbalanced. I think the GD guys borrowed heavily from us when they tweaked up the new standard marine codex, and in order to make good on that, they'll have to do something a little different with our dex. I anticipate different abilities for our ICs, at least in the case of the WP. I don't think things will get cheaper by too much, but some targeted price adjustments (Long Fangs, bikes, some things in the armory that are excessively marked-up) should come along.

 

I think the 1 HQ per 750 pts thing will need to be adjusted. Either 1 per 1000 or fraction thereof (which isn't a big shift), or something similar. Not saying how I feel about that, but most games deal with 100 or 500 pt increments, and the 750 thing is sorta out of alignment.

 

I'll post more when I think of it. Haven't got my codex with me, so this is just top-of-the-head stuff.

[mysteryman]

I hope GW dont screw the scouts. They are very unique and individual. I fear they may take away OBEL, its good but represents the fluff and its not like its a match winner.

 

A reduced price for the bikes would be nice, they die to easily and, for me anyway, dont win their points back.

 

What about allowing a character not in teminator armour to take a storm bolter? I think it kinda smells a bit.

Anyway, I just hope they dont take away the rules which give the wolves their character and flavour.

[voiddog]

i would like to see the bc stats upgraded beeing as they are space marines they should at least stnd toe to toe in stat lines

[The Angelus Sanctus]

Given codex release dates, im sure we'll find out in 2008 ;)

 

In any case, i get the impression GW wont be doing too much re-vamping to the SW, which is probably why its been put at the bottom of the 'Big 4' as its the one marine army that does NOT require an overhaul (im still annoyed that the BT came first).

 

At the minimum they could fix up some of the variations from the Marine codex, so our guys dont look so weird and backwards (not as bad as the DA though, V4 40K using V3 RW rules... :D :unsure: ).

 

So yeah, i think the codex is quite solid as it is, with minor tweaks to set it firmly in V4, ill personally be happy (i still think its the most beautiful marine codex written, even compared to the new Marine and BT codex).

[ThralKhan]

I have to admit, I'm enjoying this thread...ok, here are my comments from what I've read so far...

 

Blood Claws: they're young and hot headed, the have the S and T of a Marine, but I think that because they lack self control, being a BS and WS 3 fits, especially since they get +2 attacks on the charge.

 

Wolf Priest: should get some benefit like a chappy. If he's leading a squad, they should get to re-roll misses...and this would make up for the BC low skills...

 

Wolf Lords and Wolf Guard Battle Leaders: I think this makes up for the 2 and 3 wound IC.

 

Wolf Guard should have access to Veteran Skills. I don't think I would put jump packs on them...in fact, I would get rid of jump packs all together in lieu of more bikes (cheaper and more per unit, say 3-10 and have every 3rd or 4th bike the option of upgrading to an attack bike, or something like that). Wolves keep their feet on solid ground and that should be reflected in all aspects...no deep striking, no jump packs...

 

Long Fangs should also get Vet skills...or at least automatically have tank hunter.

 

Oh, and bringing back Bjorn would be awesome! Especially since BA have Moriar...

[Lord Hjamlar]

IMO this should be lik that:

 

Wolf Priest - I don't know whether they should get same skill as Chaplain cause they role is a bit difrent, but we need some kind of special skill

Long Fangs - 10 man squad, cheaper, Pack Leadr can take things from armoury, special rules cause they're "sage council"

BC - a bit cheaper, maybe furious charge...

BC bikers - chaper, 4 pts less

BC jumpers - much cheaper, they must assault if enemy is within 6 - it's sometimes deadly...

WG Power Armour - cheaper, with option of taking special weapons form armoury for 1 in 2 models :D.

GH - I like them now, but they should have frag grenades for free, 2 assaukt weapons, and they should cost 1 pt less

WG Termies - cheaper!!!! Special skills - Furious charge, tank hunter etc.

13th - Company make'em like that:

Wulfen -Elite, only when Wolf Priest is present, you can't take allies except for radicals, give them otpion of power weapons for 6 pts or so.

Storm Claws - Elite 0-1, Maybe some special rules

Grey Slayers - 0-1 Upgrade for GH, or if a Lord have a mark they are 1+...

Dread - As it is now + Inferno cannon, assault drill, and maybe some veteran skills, tank hunter lascannon or assault cannon with BS5 :unsure: ....

That's all I think.

[Battle_Wolf]

no i dont feel that the WP should have "litanies of hate". Attached to a full pack of BC, on the charge, statistically 45 of them should hit. thats way too overpowering IMO.

 

i dont even like "rites of battle" we would never fail morale in combat since we suffer no negative modifier for being outnumbered.

 

i was thinking we could maybe use someting like the ragnar's "wolf battle howl" from 2nd edition but maybe double the charge range instead of tripling it.

 

on the multi-level characters, for rune priest it might be good. the wolf priest didnt have a this option in 2nd or 3rd and i feel he should stay the same.

 

i dont see why a bolter and ccw grey hunter should cost the same as a vinilla marine trying to imitate him :unsure: lol. for this reason i think they should be 17 and make the exchange for bolter and ccw free.

 

blood claws are fine. one thing though take away the option for melta bombs(does anyone actually use them? i know i dont)

 

blood claw bikers, i love them personally(even if they die after the charge, what usually happens lol) but most feel they are too expensive. they should have frag standard as other bikers.

 

blood claw jump packs. taking them completely away is one option but one solution that has been said many a time is to make them 0-1 with a cheaper point cost.

 

long fangs should indeed have veteran skills.

 

the LRE is too expensive, a normal guard on is 60pt less. drop it by 20-30pts makes it viable and its still reasonable for having such a tank in SW.

 

some other things that have been said on other posts and forums, maybe have fenrisian wolves 0-1 unit. add fenrisian wolves to scouts maybe

[ThralKhan]

Well our LRE is BS4, so I can understand the points increase...I'd prefer it to be cheaper, though...

 

Having a unit of wolves OBEL with scouts would be so ugly! I like it!!!! hunting hounds...

[Nigth_Wolf]

My thoughts, who dares to read all this?:

 

Wolf Lord- I like this "wolf howl" Battle wolf has metioned, fluffy and would take the lords back to the furius way of the leader leading the attack.

 

Wolf Priest- Two levels should be available and a reduction of point cost for the 2 wound one.

Something no one of you have noted is the balms and morkai's fang, we need them to be as the narthecium/reductor from the nillas. This is a great disadventage!!!

 

As a special rule, i also look back to 2nd edition, the special rule of Ulrik, that allowed troops within 6" to repeat moral and leadership test, maybe upgraded to 12".

 

Runic Priest- This is actually a crime as it it, we are paying 35 (i'm not sure) or so points more for a 2 wounds psychic than a nilla does (equiping him with the rod and psychic weapon) and he only have one 'devaluated' power, (yes actually works when charging, but as Peter Haines said we could also lose this) the devaluated comes from the effect over vehicles.

Needs more powers and a decrease in point cost.

 

Vennie- I like it as it is, the point cost is rigth for his abilities, and starting first is near the only way to win a tourney battle with a SW list. (just my experience don't fire at this)

 

Scouts- Ok

 

Wolf guard- I would gave them options like the chaos chosen, the rules of these guys are a cheap, modern, imitation of our WG, take a look at the Chaos codex to see what i mean, basically give them basic weapon with the termie upgrade.

 

Oh, and what do you think of this? Give ALL WG the option to buy wolves as wargear!!!! If the chaos scum can, why in the name of ******** can't we have wolves in all our squads?

 

Iron Priest- Give them the rules in the nilla's codex.

 

Hunters & Claws- They are perfect as they are fluffy and flavour, maybe i'd consider give them an extra assault weapon.

Allow them to take melta bombs at +2 points as nillas assault squads.

 

Bikes- leave the points in 27-28, frags with no cost.

 

Long Fangs- Leave the point cost and everything as it's, give them 'Tank hunters' for free, man this guys have been playing with heavy weapons for a loooooooong time, if someone knows how to beat a tank are they.

 

LRExterminator- Reduce the point cost or allow as to take a 'standar' Leman Russ. xDDDD

[Lord Ragnarok]

(yes actually works when charging, but as Peter Haines said we could also lose this) the devaluated comes from the effect over vehicles.

Needs more powers and a decrease in point cost.

I thought Pete said that storm caller does not work when charging. Where does it say it works while charging? In the age of furious charge I think even the more defensive application of storm caller is a very good option.

 

Given codex release dates, im sure we'll find out in 2008

 

In any case, i get the impression GW wont be doing too much re-vamping to the SW, which is probably why its been put at the bottom of the 'Big 4' as its the one marine army that does NOT require an overhaul (im still annoyed that the BT came first).

 

At the minimum they could fix up some of the variations from the Marine codex, so our guys dont look so weird and backwards (not as bad as the DA though, V4 40K using V3 RW rules... ).

 

So yeah, i think the codex is quite solid as it is, with minor tweaks to set it firmly in V4, ill personally be happy (i still think its the most beautiful marine codex written, even compared to the new Marine and BT codex).

 

By Russ I hope it is a small update. That hopefully means less nerf games.

[wisey1986]

Stormcaller doesn't work on the charge. It is in the Space Wolf FAQ. You only have the benefit of cover when receiving the charge. This just makes the Rune priest an even worse choice for his points compared to a nilla librarian.

 

Also in the FAQ is the fact that we don't get the nilla special rules for ICs. I think this is fair since 15 Blood Claws lead by a Wolf Priest would be unstoppable. But we do need some other rule. Furious charge is also never going to happen for them, not at 14 points anyway. I can live with WS and BS 3 considering the +2 attacks and a potential for 4 power fists if you have a wolf guard.

 

Which leads me to something I should start another thread about ... technically you can have 30 powerfists in a 1500pt army!! Not an army that should ever be taken, but you can imagine. That's WGBL with 9 wolf guard, times 2, 6 Grey Hunters and a wolf guard, 11 Blood claws and wolf guard, and 11 Blood claws. All units have the max number of powerfists. And I get told having 8 is unfair!

[Battle_Wolf]

one thing, Are you intending to walk across the field with that army? you will get shot to death in the three turns it'll take you to get there(on average, depends on opponent)

 

yeh that one thing i dont like blood claw maximising and grey hunter minimum. though people might hate me for saying this i feel a rule should be put in that says BC units cannot out number GH units. since really there should be a a large number of GH in every great company, but this is a bit drastic i know

[Skjold Bloodmaw]

Stormcaller doesn't work on the charge. It is in the Space Wolf FAQ. You only have the benefit of cover when receiving the charge.

 

Want to post a link to this F.A.Q.? Because the one on the G-Dub website doesn't say anything like that. In fact, it blatantly suggests it can be used on the charge.

 

2. If a unit with Storm Caller cast on it is charging a unit in cover, then all attacks are simultaneous.

 

I believe what you're referring to is the load of crap that Pete Haines shovels out onto the forums now and then, which means nadda to the actual rules. Until it's in a Codex or FAQ, nothing he says on the forums stands as an actual rule, so Storm Caller may still be used on the charge. Some people think it's abusing a loophole, which it could be considered in the loosest sense, but if he wanted it to stand as an official ruling, wouldn't he have just put it in the FAQ and avoided the controversy all together?

[frostclaw222]

I agree that some sort of ratio of GH-to-BC needs to be maintained. That goes without saying for most of us.

 

Whoever was suggesting that we all overlooked the lack of narthecium and reductor: I sorta meant that when I said fixing our armory list. There's quite a few pieces of basic loyalist marine gear that got left off the list. And while some folks might try to cover the mistake by saying "it was intended for fluff's sake," we're talking some vital pieces of kit. And then there's the odd permissions or lack of permissions we have for our units with regards to certain weapons that other chapters don't. If all this was intentional in the v3 codex, fine. But explain it, instead of just leaving the gear out or restricting it more than the standard marine dex does. Some other stuff just didn't make practical sense, like taking a psychic hood and putting it on a stick. :D

 

I think we'll see a slight dip in WG prices, as some of the pricing trends for WG equipment availability communnicated over to the basic veteran marine sergeant. And they can't give us bionics for free, so I reckon they'll drop WG by a point or so, at least.

 

I'd like to see an increased focus on the pack-oriented nature of the wolves. The easiest way to do this would be veteran skills, but I don't think that's precisely what should be done when it comes to GH. WG and LF, sure, but GH don't have that seasoning yet. Scouts don't need it, as they have infiltrate and OBEL already.

 

While I like the idea of this wolf howl thing (don't remember v2, but from what I gather what's being proposed here is a one-time doubling to charge), and I think it could be fluffy for our guys, it does not equal the persistent effect that the codex commander has by broadcasting his leadership. I'll grant, we're a little less disciplined than the standard astartes, but not so much that I think we should see them gain a tremendous leadership advantage and us not enjoy the same. Maybe make that an option for the Wolf Priest or the WGBL, while the Wolf Lord retains the marine commander trait? Would give a good reason for taking a WGBL and WL.

 

If there's one thing that shouldn't be changed, it's our scouts. GW got em right in v3. Nuff said.