Yet another rendition of my DIY chapter

[Gree]

THE EAGLE CLAWS

 

PURITY ABOVE ALL

 

ORIGINS

 

The earliest records of the Eagle Claws over somewhere in the late 35th millennium, the Chapter was a newly founded fleet-based chapter of Guilliman’s stock with a training cadre from the Eagle Warriors, due to an account error the newfound chapter was assigned the colors of the Hawk Lords when they where erroneously reported destroyed. One of the trainers, in his speech at the founding of the chapter, compared them to the ‘’Manifest wrath of the Emperor, the veritable claws of the Imperial Aquila itself!’’ the phrase was taken in as the chapter name.

 

At the start of the Age of Apostasy, a chaos warband affiliated with Fabius Bile attacked the chapter right after it had concluded anti-pirate operations near the Maelstrom. The Vile Clonemaster himself was rumored to be leading the attack. During the fighting there are dark rumors of twisted rituals and experiments Bile performed on captured marines, the Eagle Claws remained tight-lipped about the battle and refuse to speak about it to outsiders.

 

From what Inquisition specialists have been able to reconstruct from bits of scattered information, Bile unleashed his prisoners, now mutated and desecrated by Bile’s touch, at their former battle brothers. The chapter beat off the attackers but not before suffering a large amount of casualties. The survivors regrouped under the leadership of Marius Findor, their newly appointed chapter master. Findor himself led the mercy killings on the few surviving prisoners that where left behind by the retreating chaos forces.

 

Findor declared that the near destruction was the result of laxity and impurity; he said that the event would never happen again and the chapter must aspire to genetic purity in order to ensure that the chapter would never be destroyed or corrupted by the enemies of the Emperor. The ‘’crimes of Bile’’ would never be allowed to threaten the chapter again.

 

Findor decreed that High Lord Vandire was also to blame; the Eagle Claws felt that the High Lord was lax in the defenses surrounding the Eye of Terror that allowed the chaos warband to assault the chapter. Although the chapter could not take any action yet, rebuilding as they where after grievous losses, Findor swore that he and his marines would recover and that the near extinction would never happen again.

 

This led to the chapter, after a unanimous vote, to expand the apothecarion to three times its normal size, to both allow the Eagle Claws to recover and safeguard against any future taint of the geneseed. When the chapter reached acceptable combat strength it was deployed immediately to the most dangerous warzones Findor could find in an attempt to regain the lost honor of the chapter.

 

The chapter aided Thor’s growing movement in orbital and fleet operations on the road to Terra, although the chapter itself took no part in the battle for the system as they where resupplying and reorganizing at the time.

 

After the death of Vandire Marius Findor decreed that the Eagle Claws would seek out a new homeworld, the reasons for this where to have a steady source of recruits more easily made available to the chapter and that a planet with orbital defenses would be more easily defendable.

 

The Eagle Claws selected Asclepieion Major, a death world in which Vandire’s followers liquidated the old planetary governor and his loyalists in one of his mad orders. The Eagle Claws seized the world from Vandire loyalists. They put for the request to The High Lords and it was granted, Asclepieion Major was a death world with few natural resources and perfect for a chapter homeworld. The Eagle Claws swiftly settled down and constructed their Fortress-Monastery.

 

Marius Findor continued to lead the chapter until he was killed in one of the many crusades against the xenos who had taken the opportunity to conquer Imperial territories during the Age of Apostasy. His enraged honor guard hacked down the greenskin warlord responsible and the chapter finished its crusading operation.

 

From Asclepieion Major the chapter has rebuilt itself and serves to prove itself past the weakness and imperfection and cleanse the stars of the Emperor’s enemies.

 

Machaon Garuda[/i

Machaon Garuda is the current chapter master of the Eagle Claws. He was recruited from Trikala, one of the most remote and forbidding tribes of Asclepieion, initially he was unremarkable, but this changed when he slew a qegoth patriarch, one of the most dangerous predators on Asclepieion, a rare feat.

 

When he entered the ranks of the chapter, he rose slowly but steadily, gaining the trust and admiration of his peers, brutally honest he is a stoic, reserved marine who is deeply devoted to the well-being of the chapter.

 

While he is possible the greatest warrior in the chapter he himself prefers to completely plan out all his operations in detail and make sure that nothing is left to change, he is the very exemplar of what it means to be an Eagle Claws.

 

He is a peerless strategist and tactician, having mastered both attack and defense, while some have criticized his style of warfare as a bland and almost mathematical manner, Garuda says he simply cares about the results.

 

 

HOMEWORLD

 

Asclepieion Major is grey world, divided between great mountains, stony plains and vast forests, with only a single small ocean. It is by Imperial definiton a death world, with the original settler crashlanding milleinia ago. Many dangerous beasts exist on the surface, great bear-sized scorpions, ravneous hyperwolves, murders of blood crows and pincer-armed qegoths. Prescious little grows on the surface. Ancinet ruins from the Dark Age of Technology stand silently.

 

The people of Asclepieion are divided into numeous clans and tibes, each living in great fortress cities. The people are very much like the ancient techno-barbarians of Earth, possessing advanced weaponry but a fierce, almost savage culture. There is no nominal rulers and the tribes fight each each other for land and resources, as well to survive in the harsh enviorment. They fight with las-locks, with electro-pikes and shotcannons, their greatest warriors wear a crude form of power carapace armor and wild oversized autoguns and motorized chainblades. Food is usually grown in vast hydroponics farms in the sealed environments of the fortress cites, or meat taken from the outside beasts in mass hunts by veteran warriors.

 

While the Eagle Claws rule the world, they encourage competition among the tribes in order to create potential recruits and weed out the weak. However the Eagle Claws usually stop one of the tribes from completely destroying another, in order to maintain a balance. The chapter maintains a distant, but visible presence as the Eagle Claws feel that as warriors, they need only to restrict themselves to the bare necessity of governing so that they would concentrate on the duties of a space marine.

 

The people of Asclepieion Major venerate the detached marines as the war angels of the Emperor, who they worship as the ‘’great eagle god’’ who’s gaze watches all and judges warriors accordingly.

 

The chapter chooses the strongest young warriors of the techno-clans once every fifty years, all tribal and clan differences are forgotten and left behind by years of training and conditioning, for when the recruits enter the Eagle Claws there is only the chapter from then on. Often the final test for a recruit is to hunt one of the many dangerous native beasts, whether the stone-feathered blood crows to the huge, serpentine, pincer-limbed qegoths,, will a recruit will prove his worth before being accepted into the chapter.

 

The chapter’s fortress monastery is based in the wind-swept Epidaurus Hinterlands, one of the harshest places on Asclepieion . The chapter also mains a secondary naval base on Asclepieion’s principal moon. The system is well fortified against orbital and the chapter maintains a vigilant watch so that the chapter will never be at risk again.

 

COMBAT DOCRINE

 

As inheritors of Guilliman the Eagle Claws follow the codex astartes fairly closely, with the obvious exception of a larger than number of apothecaries, which was adopted after the chapter’s near annihilation. The chapter does not practice last stands, considering the value of the chapter’s survival more important than foolhardy glory or spiteful vengeance, considering the lessons of Guilliman of battlefield wisdom.

 

The chapter by large considers battlefield tactics and wits to be more important than individual feats of arms, since the chapter as a whole is considered more important the honor and ability of the individual warriors, although this is not to say the chapter shies away from combat, indeed, as with all Astartes chapters the Eagle Claws boast many fine and skilled fighters.

 

Juilian Basiclus [/i

] Julian Basiclus is the captain of the 2nd company and one of the Eagle Claws greatest heroes. He was the son of one of the noble chieftains of Sicyon, one of the greatest tribes on Aclepieion. He was already being groomed to be a fearsome warrior and a leader when the Eagle Claws inducted him into the chapter.

 

He is a proud, intelligent marine who is regarded as somewhat of a radical by some of the more conservative chapter elements for avoiding contact with Tau forces on Karovioa Prime in order to quell a daemonic excursion instead before going after the Tau forces. However and accusations where put to rest when Basiclus led the assault that drove the xenos from the planet.

 

Although skilled in all forms of warfare Basiclus favors the offensive and is noted for his aggressive tactical views. He himself favors the armored spearhead tactics for deep penetrating strikes into the heart of enemy formations in order to end the battle quickly so he can move on into the next target. While he is a mediocre strategist he is an excellent tactical commander.

 

He is an accomplished swordsman, armed with a master-crafted relic power sword that bated back to the founding of the chapter, and wears a suit of ornate power armor inherited from one of the Eagle Warriors training cadre.

 

 

 

ORGANISATION

 

The organisation of the Eagle Claws is close to codex standard with the sole exception of a large number of apothecaries. The chapter has instituted this heavy reliance on apothecaries as a result of the near annihilation of the chapter early in their history and fears of chaos corruption in the geneseed. Unusually the Chief Apothecary wields a greater amount of political influence in the chapter than most of his counterparts in other chapters.

 

Due to the larger number of apothecaries it is quite common for several apothecaries to be attached directly to squads serving in the field that that their healing and geneseed skills can be utilized the most.

Otherwise the Eagle Claws organization is typical and unremarkable, the 1st and 10th companies are usually split up with the 2nd-5th being battle companies and the 6th-9th being reserves.

 

BELIFS

 

The Eagle Claws are proud and reclusive, even for a chapter of the Adeptus Astartes, their brush with near annihilation leading the chapter to believe that only by the highest measure of purity and perfection in mind, body and soul, would the honor of the chapter be held.

 

The chapter, as with many other chapters reveres the Emperor and it’s primarch, Robute Guilliman, and Marius Findor is revered as the savior of the chapter and a Astartes hero.

 

The Eagle Claws consider the surivial of the chapter to be more important than the death of an individual marine and the battle brothers are expected to trade their lives at a moment’s notice for that of an Apothecary. The Eagle Claws are noted as being utterly unmerciful and harsh on their enemies, often refusing to accept the surrender of rebels and pursing down every last root of heresy whereas another chapter would simply eliminate the leaders and move on. It is believed that the Eagle Claws do this out of a combination of pride and revulsion at the chapter’s enemies and a zealous attitude to eradicate all traces of heresy.

 

The chapter’s attitude is seen as executively prideful among other Imperial forces, who are sometimes put off by the snobbery of the Eagle Claws; who particularly they hold chapters with degraded or mutated geneseed in contempt. There have been a few isolated distances where the Eagle Claws have even put the lives of other Imperial forces at risk in order just to save a single gene-seed, however such instances are rare and the chapter maintains a professional relationship with most Imperial organizations.

 

However the chapter maintains very close ties with the Magos Biologis of the Mechanicus, often the Eagle Claws have answered their calls of a result of a series of ancient debts between the chapter and the Genators.

 

The chapter is one of the most xenophobic Astartes chapters in the Imperium, the chapter has not forgotten who slain Marius Findor and pursues the destruction of alien races, be they Eldar, Ork , Tau or any other, with a fervent zeal. The Eagle Claws have contributed a large number of forces into the Deathwatch for that purpose. The Eagle Claws have a noted grudge against the members of the Black Legion for a certain incident in M38 when Chaos Lord Heru’ur Daemonseye captured several marines during the ear for Alexia III and executed them while sarcastically commenting that the Eagle Claws would make good followers of the Dark Gods, the chapter has sworn to hunt down and slay the Chaos Lord for the insult.

 

Yonaz Philostratus [/i

Yonaz Philostratus is the Chief Apothecary of the Eagle Claws, a very prestigious and important position in a chapter that already values the role of the apothecary very highly. Despite competition for the position Philostratus did not seek the position himself and was quite surprised when he was appointed to it.

 

He is a masterful healer, having saved many lives and gene-stock of the chapter. He posses a sense of black humor that disguises his own iron-shod sense of duty of possible the most important position in the chapter.]

 

GENESEED

The Chapter’s geneseed is extremely pure, being of the stock of Robute Guilliman and as the highly skilled work of the Eagle Claws apothecaries the rate of mutation is practically zero due to the extremely harsh genetic standards of the chapter, compared to others.

 

The people of Asclepieion Major are a tough-hardy breed and have proved to be excellent stock in accepting the geneseed. There have been extremely few instances of mutation and failure, partially due to their excellent gene-stock and the work of the Eagle Claws apothecaries. The chapter choses only the finest physical specimens of geneseed for implantion, and although this can lead to a slighly slower rate of induction compared to other astartes chapters the Eagle Claws consider it to be an acceptable cost. As a result the scout company of the chapter is slightly smaller than normal, due to the strict genetic standards of the chapter.

 

BATTLE-CRY

‘’Pure Hearts, Pure Souls, Pure Blades!

Edited May 25, 2009 by Gree

[Gree]

Anybody?

[Gree]

Come on, Is ANYBODY going to review my idea?

[Aurelius Rex]

Liber is one of the slower boards, and combined with the large amount of reading compared to some other posts, these things can take a while.

 

Sit back, put your feet up, read some of the other threads and IA articles. They might give you some ideas on how to improve your own chapter, and commenting constructively on other peoples articles will probably make them more willing to return the favour. :D

[Race Bannon]

Before its introduction as a homeworld for the Eagle Claws, Presinium II was an important mining planet that provided top-quality ore for the Adeptus Mechanicus forge-worlds; they still do as such, although in lesser quantities due to the Eagle Claws rule and partially to their chilly attitude towards the machine-masters of the Imperium.

 

The Departmento Munitorium would have HUGE problems with this. The Imperial Guard war machine demands A LOT from all the worlds it can get resources from.

 

But I can see where Presinium II was "over-producing" and, due to the Eagle Claws presence, went back to "average" supplies.

 

This is what jumped out at me. Having a beef with the Ad Mech and changing supply amounts will affect a large chain - even if it's just one planet.

 

I'm not saying this is bad Bad BAD, just fyi.

[Gree]

Before its introduction as a homeworld for the Eagle Claws, Presinium II was an important mining planet that provided top-quality ore for the Adeptus Mechanicus forge-worlds; they still do as such, although in lesser quantities due to the Eagle Claws rule and partially to their chilly attitude towards the machine-masters of the Imperium.

 

The Departmento Munitorium would have HUGE problems with this. The Imperial Guard war machine demands A LOT from all the worlds it can get resources from.

 

But I can see where Presinium II was "over-producing" and, due to the Eagle Claws presence, went back to "average" supplies.

 

This is what jumped out at me. Having a beef with the Ad Mech and changing supply amounts will affect a large chain - even if it's just one planet.

 

I'm not saying this is bad Bad BAD, just fyi.

 

The Space Marine homeworlds are exempt from normal tithe on the account of being the Astartes homeworlds, their tithe is giving recruits to the Marines.

 

They do not have a ''Burn Machine-Heretic!'' attititude, they allow thier Techmarines to be trained there on mars, they will fight alongside them, its just that they do not trust them. Its like Psykers, they are useful but you cannot really trust them because a demon could get lucky...

[Chaptermaster Graymantle]

Almost unique among the Space Marine chapters. The scouts of the Eagle Claws have been known to take camouflaged uniforms in mission-specific environments.

Actually, this is quite common - even Imperial Fist Scouts use camouflage.

 

Did I understand it correctly that you have soldiers training from their youth and serving for up to 18 years, for then to potentially get implants and become scouts of the Chapter, or does the Chapter use regular human scouts?

The reason I ask is that implants must be administered to the body at a young age to be allowed to grow with the body etc...

 

Other than that I think it looks good, and it reminds me a lot about my own DIY Chapter.

 

Best of luck to you in the continuation of your Chapter. ^_^

[Gree]

Almost unique among the Space Marine chapters. The scouts of the Eagle Claws have been known to take camouflaged uniforms in mission-specific environments.

Actually, this is quite common - even Imperial Fist Scouts use camouflage.

 

Did I understand it correctly that you have soldiers training from their youth and serving for up to 18 years, for then to potentially get implants and become scouts of the Chapter, or does the Chapter use regular human scouts?

The reason I ask is that implants must be administered to the body at a young age to be allowed to grow with the body etc...

 

Other than that I think it looks good, and it reminds me a lot about my own DIY Chapter.

 

Best of luck to you in the continuation of your Chapter. ^_^

 

No, The first 2-4 years are regular human training, then the best of the class get thier new implants and at the age if 18 officialy join the scouts, this is a bit confusing in the IA, i should rewrite when I get the time.

[Commissar Molotov]

I was interested to see this chapter - my Castigators are similarly obsessed with perfection, though they express it in different ways to the Eagle Claws.

 

Here's a few random thoughts:

 

How was the Chapters' archives destroyed during the Age of Apostasy? It's said that most - if not all - of the Astartes chapters maintained their neutrality during the Age of Apostasy, until the end when Sebastian Thor arrived on the scene. It might be interesting to detail that.

 

Now, Presinium II. Race Bannon's problem is correct, I think. You're right in saying that a planet has its' tithes suspended if it becomes a dedicated Marine homeworld. But you have to consider it from the Adeptus Mechanicus' and the Departmento Munitorum's point of view. They've got a decent planet that's giving them a constant influx of valuable materiel, then some Space Marine chapter comes along, co-opts the planet, and you can't do anything about it. At the very least, these other Imperial organisations will be a little annoyed. This is a good thing from a story-telling point of view, you just need to expand on it.

 

But how did the chapter get this chilly attitude towards the Adeptus Mechanicus? Where did it come from?

 

Eighteen years old is also too old to implant the Astartes organs into a neophyte. According to Index Astartes, some of it needs to be done by around the age of twelve.

[Gree]

I was interested to see this chapter - my Castigators are similarly obsessed with perfection, though they express it in different ways to the Eagle Claws.

 

Here's a few random thoughts:

 

How was the Chapters' archives destroyed during the Age of Apostasy? It's said that most - if not all - of the Astartes chapters maintained their neutrality during the Age of Apostasy, until the end when Sebastian Thor arrived on the scene. It might be interesting to detail that.

 

Now, Presinium II. Race Bannon's problem is correct, I think. You're right in saying that a planet has its' tithes suspended if it becomes a dedicated Marine homeworld. But you have to consider it from the Adeptus Mechanicus' and the Departmento Munitorum's point of view. They've got a decent planet that's giving them a constant influx of valuable materiel, then some Space Marine chapter comes along, co-opts the planet, and you can't do anything about it. At the very least, these other Imperial organisations will be a little annoyed. This is a good thing from a story-telling point of view, you just need to expand on it.

 

But how did the chapter get this chilly attitude towards the Adeptus Mechanicus? Where did it come from?

 

Eighteen years old is also too old to implant the Astartes organs into a neophyte. According to Index Astartes, some of it needs to be done by around the age of twelve.

 

 

I really should rewrite this, as I have stated before, they get the implants during thier training, then the best of that form the Eagle Claws at 18, those who fail, remain as ''assistant teachers'' to the space marines who oversee the program in order to teach the next gen of what NOT to do.

 

Since the chapter's belif that the sacred flesh of humanity is perfect they are disgusted by the way the mechanicus freely replaces thier own flesh with bionics, they use bionics but only when absolutely nesscary. Those who have it must fight harder to win the respect of thier peers.

[Commissar Molotov]

The sacred flesh of humanity? Your chapter are hypocrites, then, for they freely desecrate the 'sacred flesh'. How are the Astartes even human at all? They stand taller than normal men; they are monstrous giants that can crush a man's skull with one hand, that practise barbaric blood rites and all manners of heretical religious ceremonies. They can spit acid and survive mortal wounds. They could be considered a seperate race to the humans they so revere.[/religious Ecclesiarchical rant]

 

Alright, so your chapter's almost like the reverse of the Iron Hands. Rather than 'The Flesh is Weak', they revere the flesh over the machine. Interesting. Perhaps this has put them at odds against the Iron Hands and/or the Mechanicus before.

 

Now, the reason I put that quote up there is that you need to realise the inherent hypocrisy of the Eagle Claws' doctrines, even if they don't. It's an interesting thought process, and one that you should continue to run with if it inspires you.

 

I look forward to seeing the next draft of your chapter; they have a lot of potential.

[Gree]

The sacred flesh of humanity? Your chapter are hypocrites, then, for they freely desecrate the 'sacred flesh'. How are the Astartes even human at all? They stand taller than normal men; they are monstrous giants that can crush a man's skull with one hand, that practise barbaric blood rites and all manners of heretical religious ceremonies. They can spit acid and survive mortal wounds. They could be considered a seperate race to the humans they so revere.[/religious Ecclesiarchical rant]

 

Alright, so your chapter's almost like the reverse of the Iron Hands. Rather than 'The Flesh is Weak', they revere the flesh over the machine. Interesting. Perhaps this has put them at odds against the Iron Hands and/or the Mechanicus before.

 

Now, the reason I put that quote up there is that you need to realise the inherent hypocrisy of the Eagle Claws' doctrines, even if they don't. It's an interesting thought process, and one that you should continue to run with if it inspires you.

 

I look forward to seeing the next draft of your chapter; they have a lot of potential.

 

Precisely, it is their own unknowing hypocrisy that would make their own

[gil galed]

*Gil closes his eyes and focuses very hard on the inanimate thread*

 

~ Nothing ~

 

*Gil focuses even harder* (blue tendrils start to flow from his hands)

 

~Thread twitches~

 

*Gil expends every ounce of his will on the thread* (blue light cascades from him)

 

~The thread lives!!!!!!!!!!!!~

 

 

 

 

 

....

 

 

 

 

 

 

What you said you wanted it alive? no way to kill it now

 

if anyone wants to ressurect the thread they can do so.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Similar to previous posts i think the "destroyed in age of apostacy" thing is perhaps overuse (although 3 years ago it probably wasn't), i'd love to see a chapter take an active side in the conflict! have some fights with the sisters of silence. And while i'm not a huge fan of loyal traitor legions i can sooo see a really egotistic chapter which is DA/UM successor and thus avoids it all (but still dropping EC hints), silly smurfs

Edited May 13, 2009 by gil galed

[Gree]

Wow, I did'nt expect anyone to have the balls to actually ressurect this thread.

 

Anyway the stuff in the OP in a rough draft. The lastest stuff is here.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...;showarticle=75

Edited May 13, 2009 by Gree

[gil galed]

Wow, I did'nt expect anyone to have the balls to actually ressurect this thread.

 

Anyway the stuff in the OP in a rough draft. The lastest stuff is here.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...;showarticle=75

 

whats it's already in the liber? why did we res it? i used all my energy doing that, i want be able to res a thread for months....

 

 

....or do you want us to change the one in the liber by giving you crit. here??

[Gree]

Wow, I did'nt expect anyone to have the balls to actually ressurect this thread.

 

Anyway the stuff in the OP in a rough draft. The lastest stuff is here.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...;showarticle=75

 

whats it's already in the liber? why did we res it? i used all my energy doing that, i want be able to res a thread for months....

 

 

....or do you want us to change the one in the liber by giving you crit. here??

 

Sure, give me crit here if you want.

[War Angel]

i dont have time to read all of this, but i find that preaty much every one they fought with during there crusaide they then coppied... they have no traditions of there own

[The 13th Goat]

I've said it on other threads and i'll say it here: you need to tone down the Emperor's Children referances. When i say purple armour, gold trim and obsessed with perfection, everybody that has even looked at a space marine book would roughly know its the Emperor's Children. If it were one or the other, fine, but its BOTH the characteristics that make it feel like a one of those Madame Tussaudes wax works; greatly detailed and fantastically done, but essentially just a copy. If you toned it down it would have a chance, but at the moment it sceams Fulgrim louder than front row at a metallica concert.

[Gree]

I've said it on other threads and i'll say it here: you need to tone down the Emperor's Children referances. When i say purple armour, gold trim and obsessed with perfection, everybody that has even looked at a space marine book would roughly know its the Emperor's Children. If it were one or the other, fine, but its BOTH the characteristics that make it feel like a one of those Madame Tussaudes wax works; greatly detailed and fantastically done, but essentially just a copy. If you toned it down it would have a chance, but at the moment it sceams Fulgrim louder than front row at a metallica concert.

 

Then why do most people don't recongize the connection till I point it out?

 

I mean when I say red armor, librarians, search for knowledge it's obviiously pre-heresy Thousand sons right? No, wati. It's the Blood Ravens! When I say grey armor, a dark sounding name and a morsone attidude you think death Guard right? Wrong, Doon Eagles.

 

In fact look at this guy, he look an awesome lot like the pre-heresy death guard right down to the chapter symbol.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Sons

Edited May 14, 2009 by Gree

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

The reason 13th Goat brings up that point is not to railroad your chapter, it's to illustrate the associations people have with certain imagery and themes. Certainly those themes are not limited to the one chapter, such as the Emperors Children, but they are present all the same.

 

The fact is that no matter how YOU think of your chapter or what inspiration you drew and where it came from, the associations for better or worse are part of the mainstream view of space marines in 40k as a whole. If you continue down this road without taking that into account you will be battling against those connotations that will hang onto your DIY unless you find a way of either creatively killing them, or adjusting your DIY so they are no longer present.

 

I mean when I say red armor, librarians, search for knowledge it's obviiously pre-heresy Thousand sons right? No, wati. It's the Blood Ravens!

 

Firstly, yes the associations with both chapters will be present, the sons and the ravens. However the Blood Ravens were never an official chapter until they were released in a game, the difference between the Blood Ravens and your chapter is that they quickly became part of the mainstream due to the extreme popularity of the game and therefore it's wide-spread knowledge by everyone who makes up that mainstream audience.

 

Secondly if you gave me a chapter with red armour and a search for knowledge I would certainly compare them to the Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons. Why wouldn't you? You can only compare something to an already established yardstick. In such cases the First Founding chapters are that yardstick, barring a few later founded chapters such as the Black Templars. You can only compare something against the original and no matter how far away from them you try to go, as long as your chapter resembles them in some way they will be compared to them.

[Gree]

The reason 13th Goat brings up that point is not to railroad your chapter, it's to illustrate the associations people have with certain imagery and themes. Certainly those themes are not limited to the one chapter, such as the Emperors Children, but they are present all the same.

 

The fact is that no matter how YOU think of your chapter or what inspiration you drew and where it came from, the associations for better or worse are part of the mainstream view of space marines in 40k as a whole. If you continue down this road without taking that into account you will be battling against those connotations that will hang onto your DIY unless you find a way of either creatively killing them, or adjusting your DIY so they are no longer present.

 

I don't know how I can put this any other way. I created the chapter so I could have thwe purple and gold color scheme and the arrogant nature of the EC in the 41st millenium. The entire concept of the Eagle Claws revolvs around that fact. I have tried to make it as close to canon as possible.

 

The Eagle Claws are no closer to the Emperor's Children then the Blood ravens are to the Thousand Sons as I present them. I really don't see the rpoblem is espeically with the color shcme being used by other marine chapters.

 

I mean when I say red armor, librarians, search for knowledge it's obviiously pre-heresy Thousand sons right? No, wati. It's the Blood Ravens!

 

Firstly, yes the associations with both chapters will be present, the sons and the ravens. However the Blood Ravens were never an official chapter until they were released in a game, the difference between the Blood Ravens and your chapter is that they quickly became part of the mainstream due to the extreme popularity of the game and therefore it's wide-spread knowledge by everyone who makes up that mainstream audience.

 

Secondly if you gave me a chapter with red armour and a search for knowledge I would certainly compare them to the Pre-Heresy Thousand Sons. Why wouldn't you? You can only compare something to an already established yardstick. In such cases the First Founding chapters are that yardstick, barring a few later founded chapters such as the Black Templars. You can only compare something against the original and no matter how far away from them you try to go, as long as your chapter resembles them in some way they will be compared to them.

 

That's not the point, fluffwise they re hardly more suspicous or heretical than the Blood Ravens, in fact I would say less so since they count themselves as Guilliman sucessors.

[The 13th Goat]

Then why do most people don't recongize the connection till I point it out?

 

I mean when I say red armor, librarians, search for knowledge it's obviiously pre-heresy Thousand sons right? No, wati. It's the Blood Ravens! When I say grey armor, a dark sounding name and a morsone attidude you think death Guard right? Wrong, Doon Eagles.

 

In fact look at this guy, he look an awesome lot like the pre-heresy death guard right down to the chapter symbol.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Sons

 

Well i'm pointing it out. So did Grey hunter, Tarak and Marshall. And i didn't need you to do that for me.

 

The Doom Eagles and Blood Ravens don't look nearly as simiar as your guys. For example:

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/2/27/Blood_Ravens.jpg

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/c/c6/Pre_Heresy_Thousand_Sons_Marine.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

<Loyalist Blood Ravens and Doom Eagels

 

Traitor Thousand Sons and Death Guard>

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/6/60/Doom_Eagles.jpg

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/b/be/DeathGuard2.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are obvious differances in the above colour schemes.

 

 

I don't know how I can put this any other way. I created the chapter so I could have thwe purple and gold color scheme and the arrogant nature of the EC in the 41st millenium. The entire concept of the Eagle Claws revolvs around that fact. I have tried to make it as close to canon as possible.

 

The Eagle Claws are no closer to the Emperor's Children then the Blood ravens are to the Thousand Sons as I present them. I really don't see the rpoblem is espeically with the color shcme being used by other marine chapters.

 

Just because the Blood Ravens are secretive doesn't make them identical to the Thousand Sons. The Angels Sanguine never reveal their face in public, so their sercetive. The Dark Angels are all about the Secrets. Blood Angels distance themselves from other due to the Black Rage and Red Fury. If anything their just a secretive chapter that has close heraldry to the Blood Angels, and are little to do with the Thousand Sons.

 

Your lads, on the other hand, are simply lifted entirely from 30k. You've not given any justification for this and unlike the Blood Ravens and Doom Eagles, they look and act identically to the Emperor's Children. You can stick all the bells and whistles on like the Age Of Aposty, but your "subtle referance" to the EC is essentially a bulldozer parked in the living room. Regardless of how close to canon you stick, this chapter are almost identical to the EC. The Guilliman referance seems almost an after thought to cover you obvious links, and it doesn't really help. What you seem to be failing to grasp is that its the colour scheme AND attitude that causes this. The Hawk Lords are not obsessed with perfection, and i'm unsure if there is even another chapter that is actually obsessed with perfection aside from the EC. I'm sorry, but i just don't think you've done this homage to Fulgrim as well as you think you have.

Edited May 15, 2009 by The 13th Goat

[Gree]

Your lads, on the other hand, are simply lifted entirely from 30k. You've not given any justification for this and unlike the Blood Ravens and Doom Eagles, they look and act identically to the Emperor's Children. You can stick all the bells and whistles on like the Age Of Aposty, but your "subtle referance" to the EC is essentially a bulldozer parked in the living room. Regardless of how close to canon you stick, this chapter are almost identical to the EC. The Guilliman referance seems almost an after thought to cover you obvious links, and it doesn't really help. What you seem to be failing to grasp is that its the colour scheme AND attitude that causes this. The Hawk Lords are not obsessed with perfection, and i'm unsure if there is even another chapter that is actually obsessed with perfection aside from the EC. I'm sorry, but i just don't think you've done this homage to Fulgrim as well as you think you have.

 

I have given a justification in the first section with the chapter master's vision and the near annhilation of the chapter. all that was delibrate. In case you don't get it then they are suposed to be lifted from 30k. That's the whole point of the chapter. Actually, no, I wanted to put more of an apothecary bent anyway.

 

As for attitude I would point out the Red Scorpions attitude as outlined in Imperial Armor as being quite similar to the Eagle Claws. Arrogant, proud of thier colors and obssesed with purity.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Gree

[War Angel]

Emperors Children (EC) = Eagle Claws (EC)

Purple armor = Purple Armor

Eagle badge = Eagle badge

Arrogant

Purity

 

 

i have an idea, you mentioned in youre fluff (not a direct quote) "the gene seed of the EC's is increably pure"

 

kinda adds into the factor that this is another one of thoes chapters where each tac marine has killed a hive tyrant in hand to hand combat solo, Or single handedly stoped a necron upriseing.... youre saying youre marines are better then every one.... Why not have youre chapter have a very :cussty gene seed, but they have a strong desire to be pure, and are constantly fighting to there limits to prove that there just as good (possibly better) as any other chapter. Give them a pair of twos, but have them bluff it up to a flush.

 

now that would be a chapter with some distance to the EC

[Gree]

Emperors Children (EC) = Eagle Claws (EC)

Purple armor = Purple Armor

Eagle badge = Eagle badge

Arrogant

Purity

 

 

i have an idea, you mentioned in youre fluff (not a direct quote) "the gene seed of the EC's is increably pure"

 

kinda adds into the factor that this is another one of thoes chapters where each tac marine has killed a hive tyrant in hand to hand combat solo, Or single handedly stoped a necron upriseing.... youre saying youre marines are better then every one.... Why not have youre chapter have a very :cussty gene seed, but they have a strong desire to be pure, and are constantly fighting to there limits to prove that there just as good (possibly better) as any other chapter. Give them a pair of twos, but have them bluff it up to a flush.

 

now that would be a chapter with some distance to the EC

 

1. The whole point is that they are really not any better than an average codex chapter, they only think that way. Nowhere in the IA do they perform any kind of the feats you describe. they where even reduced to a minor support role for the Imperial fists.

 

2. They are fanatical about apothecaries, and concentrate on geneseed purity heavily.

 

i dont have time to read all of this, but i find that preaty much every one they fought with during there crusaide they then coppied... they have no traditions of there own

 

The fougth alongside only the Fists. Which they have a clearer distinct culture that is veru different from the fists, where are you saying that?

Edited May 15, 2009 by Gree