Yet another rendition of my DIY chapter

[War Angel]

He said that only by imperfection that the Eagle Claws could save the Imperium and earn Glory for the Emperor. History records that the Eagle Claws joined eagerly with the Black Templars, Crimson Fists, and the rest of the crusading chapters to overthrow the mad High Lord Vandire.

 

 

 

they fought along side only the fist eh? some one froget there own fluff?

 

you didnt say any of thoes things, but you did say there geneseed is the best around, and that is similar to thoes things, thats what i was getting at.

[Octavulg]

The Doom Eagles are silver, not grey.

 

* * *

 

The origins of the Eagle Claws are shrouded in mystery, due to the destruction of the chapter archives during the Age of Apostasy; as such only a few basic facts could be gleaned from what survives.

 

And we open with an unoriginal move, which is also somewhat illogical.

 

Look. They're Space Marines. Destroying their archives? Not necessarily that big an obstacle. They live for hundreds of years, dammit. They may lose the details of their history, but they certainly won't forget how they were founded, since that's the sort of thing every marine gets told regularly (for example, when they celebrate their founding. Which most chapters do yearly).

 

But the records onward from that time maintain that during the Age of Apostasy, the chapter was nearly wiped out, the surviving captain of the Third Company, Romulus, took stock of the three hundred surviving warriors of the chapter and delivered a speech.

 

Three hundred? That's 30% survivors! That's not nearly wiped out...

 

At least, not in 40K and not for Space Marines. :P

 

He said that only by imperfection that the Eagle Claws could save the Imperium and earn Glory for the Emperor. History records that the Eagle Claws joined eagerly with the Black Templars, Crimson Fists, and the rest of the crusading chapters to overthrow the mad High Lord Vandire.

 

Imperfection...

 

Er...I think that's a typo.

 

At the end of the campaign the High Marshal of the Black Templars himself said that they where the living embodiment of the Adeptus Astartes.

 

Don't dictate things about official chapters, wherever possible.

 

Second, don't have famous figures in 40K history go on about how awesome your chapter is. Classic symptom of them being Mary Sues, for one thing.

 

This was taken from the example of the Crimson Fists of whom they had fought with during the Age of Apostasy; they consider government not fit for space marines of the Emperor, although they have removed corrupt individuals if they feel the need to.

 

Man, you're already ripping off the Emperor's Children (blatantly - anyone who reads the warcry will put two and two together, for one). Namedropping famous chapters really doesn't add anything.

 

The chapter follows the battlefield doctrine based in the Codex Astartes closely, but have amended it to allow their own tactics, the Eagle Claws train in all forms of combat in all environments enthusiastically.

 

The Codex Astartes is like the Art of War with some examples attached. It's not some concrete "if this, then this" flowchart.

 

Amending and adding to it would be fine, but presenting the Codex Astartes as restricting the brilliance of your commanders? Not wise. Presenting it as restricting the way they prefer to do things is much more reasonable.

 

"Claws of the Emperor! Death to his foes!"

 

When you say people don't notice the connection to the Emperor's Children...

 

Are you lying? Or do you hang around with people who have trouble noticing the obvious?

 

* * *

 

Also, naming the guy Romulus? It's too blatant. Too jarring to the immersion. Yanks people out of the universe and back into reality.

 

There's nothing here, other than a constant repitition of the word perfection and a lot of name-dropping of other, better chapters. The version in the Librarium's about the same. To be frank, I would not have allowed it in. There is no substance. No explanation of why or how they got this way. It's an excuse to play the EC in modern 40K, and it's not a good one.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Octavulg

[Gree]

He said that only by imperfection that the Eagle Claws could save the Imperium and earn Glory for the Emperor. History records that the Eagle Claws joined eagerly with the Black Templars, Crimson Fists, and the rest of the crusading chapters to overthrow the mad High Lord Vandire.

 

 

 

they fought along side only the fist eh? some one froget there own fluff?

 

you didnt say any of thoes things, but you did say there geneseed is the best around, and that is similar to thoes things, thats what i was getting at.

 

Read the Libarium link, I changed it to the Imperial Fists

[Gree]

There's nothing here, other than a constant repitition of the word perfection and a lot of name-dropping of other, better chapters. The version in the Librarium's about the same. To be frank, I would not have allowed it in. There is no substance. No explanation of why or how they got this way. It's an excuse to play the EC in modern 40K, and it's not a good one.

 

Read the one in the Librarium again. It's different. I changed the involvment of chapters ago.

 

The origins of the Eagle Claws are shrouded in mystery, due to the destruction of the chapter archives during the Age of Apostasy; as such only a few basic facts could be gleaned from what survives.

 

And we open with an unoriginal move, which is also somewhat illogical.

 

Look. They're Space Marines. Destroying their archives? Not necessarily that big an obstacle. They live for hundreds of years, dammit. They may lose the details of their history, but they certainly won't forget how they were founded, since that's the sort of thing every marine gets told regularly (for example, when they celebrate their founding. Which most chapters do yearly).

 

 

Tell that to the Blood Ravens. I left it obscured because I could not think of anything better.

 

But the records onward from that time maintain that during the Age of Apostasy, the chapter was nearly wiped out, the surviving captain of the Third Company, Romulus, took stock of the three hundred surviving warriors of the chapter and delivered a speech.

 

Three hundred? That's 30% survivors! That's not nearly wiped out...

 

At least, not in 40K and not for Space Marines. ^_^

 

 

These are space marines, losing 700 marines is a massive loss.

 

He said that only by imperfection that the Eagle Claws could save the Imperium and earn Glory for the Emperor. History records that the Eagle Claws joined eagerly with the Black Templars, Crimson Fists, and the rest of the crusading chapters to overthrow the mad High Lord Vandire.

 

Imperfection...

 

Er...I think that's a typo.

 

 

Correct

 

At the end of the campaign the High Marshal of the Black Templars himself said that they where the living embodiment of the Adeptus Astartes.

 

Don't dictate things about official chapters, wherever possible.

 

Second, don't have famous figures in 40K history go on about how awesome your chapter is. Classic symptom of them being Mary Sues, for one thing.

 

 

This was changed in the Libarium article, the chapter master of the fists merely felt that they performed well in soem minor boarding actions.

 

This was taken from the example of the Crimson Fists of whom they had fought with during the Age of Apostasy; they consider government not fit for space marines of the Emperor, although they have removed corrupt individuals if they feel the need to.

 

Man, you're already ripping off the Emperor's Children (blatantly - anyone who reads the warcry will put two and two together, for one). Namedropping famous chapters really doesn't add anything.

 

 

It's not namedropping, I liked the Crimson's fists method of goverment and decided to add a bit of an explaniation.

 

The chapter follows the battlefield doctrine based in the Codex Astartes closely, but have amended it to allow their own tactics, the Eagle Claws train in all forms of combat in all environments enthusiastically.

 

The Codex Astartes is like the Art of War with some examples attached. It's not some concrete "if this, then this" flowchart.

 

Amending and adding to it would be fine, but presenting the Codex Astartes as restricting the brilliance of your commanders? Not wise. Presenting it as restricting the way they prefer to do things is much more reasonable.

 

 

This was changed in the Liber article.

 

"Claws of the Emperor! Death to his foes!"

 

When you say people don't notice the connection to the Emperor's Children...

 

Are you lying? Or do you hang around with people who have trouble noticing the obvious?

 

 

Tell that to Commissar Molotov then on the front page.

 

And I don't appriciate the accusation that I am lying.

 

Also, naming the guy Romulus? It's too blatant. Too jarring to the immersion. Yanks people out of the universe and back into reality.

 

I like the name, deal with it.

 

 

To be frank, I would not have allowed it in. There is no substance. No explanation of why or how they got this way. It's an excuse to play the EC in modern 40K, and it's not a good one.

 

Well it's a good thing you are not a mod then. :P

 

Regardless I have already written several (admittedly medicore) stories about them and have painted and modeled over 3000pts of them. I'm not going to change their color scheme or the basic fluff concept. I have played with them over several years now and I have grown quite attached to them.

 

However I do feel that the word perfection is overused and I think I would like to make them more ''ultramarine'' and more focused on geneseed purity.

Edited May 15, 2009 by Gree

[Gree]

Edited to the newest version because some people can't be bothered to read the Librarium link and realize that what they have been reading before is a ROUGH DRAFT, which is unfinished. Edited May 15, 2009 by Gree

[The 13th Goat]

Oct is a mod. In fact, he's in one of the team in charge of the Librarium.

 

We've given you crit on your chapter, as is the reason for the Liber boards. Whether or not you take our advice is completely up to you. We are mearly pointing out the holes in your fluff that either break the suspension of disbelief or appear to undermine the chapter's originality.

 

As many will tell you, playing and fluffing don't neccesarily go hand in hand. Just becuase you have a 3000 pt. army doesn't somehow mean the holes in your fluff should be ignored. Niether should other fluff you've written somehow sheild your IA from attack. I'm glad you've noticed the problems with perfection simply repeated over and over again, but their are other problems where you simply completely sync with the EC, which shows unoriginality.

 

I agree with Oct that this should have run through the Liber before going up on the Librarium. We would have pointed this out a lot earlier. I am suprised Molotov didn't pick up on the links, but i suppose he felt the fluff was sufficently different. I personally don't, and by the sounds of it neither does Oct, GMT and M2C,

 

So here is some suggestions:

 

1. Focus more on the Ultramarine side of things. Make them strive to be like Gullimen, not perfect.
   
2. Make them arrogant, sure. OR make them crave adorlation from Imperial worlds, go on parades and demand feasts in their honour.
   
3. Romulus as a name is daft. Make it his first name and give him a second, like Romulus Tyrell or something. Flows better.
   
4. Change the warcry. Perhaps "The Eagle of Justice has landed!"
   
5. Perhaps give a reason for the name. Preferance to jump packs? Names tend to reflect style.
   

[Gree]

Oct is a mod. In fact, he's in one of the team in charge of the Librarium.

 

Really, I looked at his group and got confused there.

 

Oct is a mod. In fact, he's in one of the team in charge of the Librarium.

 

We've given you crit on your chapter, as is the reason for the Liber boards. Whether or not you take our advice is completely up to you. We are mearly pointing out the holes in your fluff that either break the suspension of disbelief or appear to undermine the chapter's originality.

 

As many will tell you, playing and fluffing don't neccesarily go hand in hand. Just becuase you have a 3000 pt. army doesn't somehow mean the holes in your fluff should be ignored. Niether should other fluff you've written somehow sheild your IA from attack. I'm glad you've noticed the problems with perfection simply repeated over and over again, but their are other problems where you simply completely sync with the EC, which shows unoriginality.

 

I agree with Oct that this should have run through the Liber before going up on the Librarium. We would have pointed this out a lot earlier. I am suprised Molotov didn't pick up on the links, but i suppose he felt the fluff was sufficently different. I personally don't, and by the sounds of it neither does Oct, GMT and M2C,

 

I'm sorry if I think it is this way but to me this seems to be more of a knee-jerk reaction to when I annouced they where loyalist Emperor's Children in the other thread, when I posted these guys on Warseer and Librarium I never got this kind of reaction.

[Octavulg]

Tell that to the Blood Ravens. I left it obscured because I could not think of anything better.

 

You're right. There's no reason you should put actual effort into this, and try and think of explanations for the various quirks of your chapter.

 

There's especially no reason to avoid already-hackneyed plot devices.

 

These are space marines, losing 700 marines is a massive loss.

 

It is. But they're not nearly wiped out.

 

This was changed in the Libarium article, the chapter master of the fists merely felt that they performed well in soem minor boarding actions.

 

Why do your chapter's actions need validation from others?

 

This is still "the Imperial Fists said my chapter was cool".

 

It's not namedropping, I liked the Crimson's fists method of goverment and decided to add a bit of an explaniation.

 

Instead of coming up with an original, at least mildly interesting, explanation for why they work the way they do, your explanation is "they liked the way the Crimson Fists did it"?

 

Even if that's why you chose it, it feels both unoriginal and like it's just there to work in the Crimson Fists.

 

Tell that to Commissar Molotov then on the front page.

 

And I don't appriciate the accusation that I am lying.

 

And I don't appreciate your attitude, which ranges somewhere between unhelpful and flat-out offensive on a routine basis.

 

Yet I endure.

 

Also, Molotov suppresses his natural English major instincts to read too much into everything. Sometimes it gets in the way. ^_^

 

I like the name, deal with it.

 

It's a nice name. The problem is it's so completely associated with the historical/mythical Romulus it'll break people's immersion into the IA. So would naming him Zeus or Napoleon.

 

Well it's a good thing you are not a mod then. tongue.gif

 

See the shiny special "group"? I'm a Lexicanium. Regarding the Librarium, I more or less am. No melta, but otherwise, basically.

 

Regardless I have already written several (admittedly medicore) stories about them and have painted and modeled over 3000pts of them. I'm not going to change their color scheme or the basic fluff concept. I have played with them over several years now and I have grown quite attached to them.

 

Then it would seem you should try and do it better than you currently have done. You apparently can't drop the idea. :D

 

At the moment, they are basically an excuse to have the Emperor's Children in the 41st/42nd milleniums. And while that's not bad as such, you have not executed the idea nearly well enough to prevent it bugging people/some finding it unoriginal.

 

And, honestly, you don't seem to have put that much effort into it. It's quite short, relies on overused devices and cribbing ideas from other chapters, and lacks polish. To be quite, you appear to have raced to get it into the Librarium, with all the negatives that often entails.

 

Edited to the newest version because some people can't be bothered to read the Librarium link and realize that what they have been reading before is a ROUGH DRAFT, which is unfinished.

 

People will review what is easiest for them to. If you don't want to make it easy for them, that's your prerogative. I don't think implying they're lazy/ignorant is a good way to earn the favour of others, though.

 

Frankly, keeping an up-to-date copy of your chapter in the first post is accepted practice. Don't conform to it, people will miss things. C'est la vie.

 

* * *

Oct is a mod. In fact, he's in one of the team in charge of the Librarium.

 

I'm a Lexicanium. Better grammar, no melta. :lol:

[Gree]

Tell that to the Blood Ravens. I left it obscured because I could not think of anything better.

 

You're right. There's no reason you should put actual effort into this, and try and think of explanations for the various quirks of your chapter.

 

There's especially no reason to avoid already-hackneyed plot devices.

 

 

Wow, that was nice and helpful. Amazing.

 

This was changed in the Libarium article, the chapter master of the fists merely felt that they performed well in soem minor boarding actions.

 

Why do your chapter's actions need validation from others?

 

This is still "the Imperial Fists said my chapter was cool".

 

 

It's susposed to be a subtle nod to the EC IA when Horus praised them, which you did not get appearantly.

 

Tell that to Commissar Molotov then on the front page.

 

And I don't appriciate the accusation that I am lying.

 

And I don't appreciate your attitude, which ranges somewhere between unhelpful and flat-out offensive on a routine basis.

 

Yet I endure.

 

Also, Molotov suppresses his natural English major instincts to read too much into everything. Sometimes it gets in the way. :lol:

 

 

I suspose that you are a shining example of respect and helpfulness then? Yet you have offered no real suggestions and instead took the time to smugly criticize me instead of offerign to help or any suggestions.

 

Well it's a good thing you are not a mod then. tongue.gif

 

See the shiny special "group"? I'm a Lexicanium. Regarding the Librarium, I more or less am. No melta, but otherwise, basically.

 

 

I already told you I did not know that.

 

Regardless I have already written several (admittedly medicore) stories about them and have painted and modeled over 3000pts of them. I'm not going to change their color scheme or the basic fluff concept. I have played with them over several years now and I have grown quite attached to them.

 

Then it would seem you should try and do it better than you currently have done. You apparently can't drop the idea. :D

 

At the moment, they are basically an excuse to have the Emperor's Children in the 41st/42nd milleniums. And while that's not bad as such, you have not executed the idea nearly well enough to prevent it bugging people/some finding it unoriginal.

 

And, honestly, you don't seem to have put that much effort into it. It's quite short, relies on overused devices and cribbing ideas from other chapters, and lacks polish. To be quite, you appear to have raced to get it into the Librarium, with all the negatives that often entails.

 

 

I've worked on this IA for years. It was never anything beyond getting the Emperor's Children into the 41st millenium. As I have stated before.

 

 

I will start listening to you when you offer helpful suggestions instead of sniping at me.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Gree

[Ferrata]

Am I going to have to back-hand you guys into playing nice? Let me break this down for you;

 

Gree, if you cannot take harsh criticism, don't post. Unfortunately, the destruction of ones ideas (and usually hard work) and the text-based medium often result in seemingly harsh replies.

Octavulg, if you cannot attempt to be productive in your criticisum, don't post. It is okay to say "This doesn't work", but you must at least attempt to offer a possible solution to the same end (unless the end point is what you are against, and in that case you need to develop your point more).

 

For example; It's susposed to be a subtle nod to the EC IA when Horus praised them if you really wish to echo this historic event, it might be better to actually have the Black Legion praise the chapter. Imagine a Chaos Lord is captures some of the chapter, and instead of just killing them, sends the pict-feed to the chapter. His last words before killing your marines are "Shame, you were a worthy foe, you could have been great followers of the Pantheon."

[Gree]

Gree, if you cannot take harsh criticism, don't post. Unfortunately, the destruction of ones ideas (and usually hard work) and the text-based medium often result in seemingly harsh replies.

 

To be honest I did not think anyone would open this thread again.

 

For example; It's susposed to be a subtle nod to the EC IA when Horus praised them if you really wish to echo this historic event, it might be better to actually have the Black Legion praise the chapter. Imagine a Chaos Lord is captures some of the chapter, and instead of just killing them, sends the pict-feed to the chapter. His last words before killing your marines are "Shame, you were a worthy foe, you could have been great followers of the Pantheon."

 

Thank you, I actually really like that idea, since I have a Black legion army I could really tie that in with the Eagle Claws.

[Octavulg]

Octavulg, if you cannot attempt to be productive in your criticisum, don't post. It is okay to say "This doesn't work", but you must at least attempt to offer a possible solution to the same end (unless the end point is what you are against, and in that case you need to develop your point more).

 

Possible solutions were offered in some cases, and rejected, usually with minimal justification (if any).

 

Instead, Gree appears to have chosen to intepret these as personal attacks. I look forward to being called mean and cruel for the below.

 

* * *

 

An Eagle Claws Marine

 

As has been mentioned, this is both the scheme of the Emperor's Children and the scheme of the Hawk Lords.

 

The origins of the Eagle Claws are shrouded in mystery, due to the destruction of the chapter archives during the Age of Apostasy; as such only a few basic facts could be gleaned from what survives, what is known is that the chapter is of the twelfth founding, numbered chapter 334. There are records from before that troublesome time of purple-clad marines. On Fracian they have records of marines matching the Eagle Claws description fighting off ork raiders.

 

Could be the Hawk Lords. :)

 

Come up with something else. "Records were destroyed" is a cop-out. If you really want them to have an unknown heritage, it makes far more sense for them to keep it a secret from others than for them not to know it themselves. If I burn down your house, you don't forget who you are or what your last name is. It's an inherently flawed concept, and GW's overuse of it does not justify using it yourself. Being as good as a bad GW IA is not hard. Being good is.

 

You could either have them refuse to tell outsiders about their heritage, or have them willingly abandon their heritage as imperfect. There are no doubt other options. Perhaps if you try thinking about just what their quest for perfection would mean for them as a chapter, rather than just copying the EC and knocking off for lunch, you would get better results.

 

Furthermore, handing out chapter numbers is generally unwise. The information on how many chapters existed when is simply too vague to be confident.

 

There is mention of the Eagle Claws twenty years before the Age of Apostasy fighting dark eldar raiders on Nacmentio IX. Other then these other information is hard to come by. But the records onward from that time maintain that during the Age of Apostasy, the chapter was nearly wiped out, the surviving captain of the Third Company, Romulus, took stock of the three hundred surviving warriors of the chapter and delivered a speech.

 

This paragraph should be part of the previous one.

 

Furthermore, as mentioned twice, the name Romulus breaks the immersion of the IA. The only way it might be worse is if you called him Leonidas. A surname would help slightly, but if you really want a Roman-reference, why not name him Marius, after the guy who reformed the Legions?

 

Also, why were they nearly wiped out? They weren't yet fighting Vandire...

 

He spoke to the marines, saying that the Emperor gave him a vision, a vision of perfect humanity that when the Emperor, returned from his deathless slumber on the Golden Throne, he would lead humanity to a new golden age of prosperity and glory. He said that only by imperfection that the Eagle Claws could save the Imperium and earn glory for the Emperor. History records that the Eagle Claws joined eagerly with the Black Templars, Imperial Fists, and the rest of the crusading chapters to overthrow the mad High Lord Vandire. The Eagle Claws themselves did not participate on the assualt on Terra itself, but proved to be invaluable in the fleet boarding actions and side operations to the main war.

 

Visions, while OK, are somewhat derivative. Just about everybody has a vision that launches them down a new path. You could simply have the chapter be obsessed with perfection for one of the reasons the EC were - they started out small, for whatever reason, perhaps in an area of the galaxy dominated by forces vastly numerically superior to them. So they opted for quality, since they could never match such enemies in quantity. Really, it's just a logical continuation of Space Marine doctrine - there's no need for an inspirational vision to produce it. Having it be a logical outgrowth of their previous beliefs will likely feel more natural than "oh, they had a vision".

 

Don't mention the BT and IF. Namedropping, as mentioned, is bad, even if it's just to mention that the guys were there.

 

"side operations" is an odd term. You would be better saying something like "invaluable in fleet boarding actions and other support operations of the war."

 

At the end of the campaign the Chapter Master of the Imperial Fists praised their combat prowess and proclaimed them as worthy servants to the Emperor. Romulus himself in remembrance of those who died in the crusade for the Emperor reorganized the chapter, and became its new chapter master. To this date it is firmly debated outside of the Eagle Claws whether the vision was true at all, but the Eagle Claws maintain that it was and defend it fiercely. The tale is recited to the new recruits during their training.

 

Praised their combat prowess? Why should they be singled out? There is no connection between the IF and Horus (and the ones between your Claws and the EC are evidently so subtle no one notices them), and thus there is nothing there to separate it from a million other examples of DIY chapters being praised by official ones in an attempt to make them seem better.

 

In short, if "subtle nod" is what you wanted to do, you have failed. A more obvious route of homage to the EC would seem to be referencing the way only they were allowed to wear the Imperial Eagle, though I'm not sure how to go about it best.

 

Also, if the audience doesn't get your work, it is generally your fault rather than theirs.

 

In recognition of their services during the Civil War, the Eagle Claws, formerly a fleet-based chapter, where given a homeworld, Caesarea II. They then eagerly set to the task of constructing a fortress-monastery. In remembrance of the people of Terra that the Eagle Claws had fought to protect during Vandire’s mad reign, Romulus declared that the Eagle Claws would experience the best of humanity at its full, the best artisans, musicians, sculptors, and poets where brought in to educate the marines in addition to their training.

 

Is the Age of Apostasy referred to as "the Civil War"? Generally best not to invent new terms for things, because there is a risk of people not being sure what you mean (minimal in this case, I admit).

 

Caesarea? While throwing Roman references around like they're candy is fun, it really does damage the immersion of the IA. Also detracts from the perfection angle by muddying it with 'Rome! Romulus! Caesar! Roma, casa, et gloria!'. There was nothing wrong with the previous name.

 

Furthermore, considering the amount of time they dedicate to combat training, your marines don't seem to have time to be educated in the arts. You could have it be that the best of everyone is sought out for their household (i.e. chapter serfs).

 

Ten years later the new fortress-monastery was completed along with a massive influx of recruits as Romulus declared an everlasting crusade in the name of the Emperor and humanity. After the chapter had been completely rebuilt from the ashes of the Age of Apostasy, Romulus led seven companies on a crusade into the Ghoul Stars. The newly minted battle brothers performed admirably well in their first campaign and the crusade returned with full honors.

 

Tragedy struck when Chapter Master Romulus was killed during the conflict for Alexia III fighting off a massive horde of foul orks that had invaded and pillaged the world. The chapter, due to ancient oaths had been called to defend the world. Romulus led six companies against the horde. During the siege of the main hive he was slain by the ork warlord, his death was avenged by his honor guard who hacked the beast to death in their rage at the loss of their chapter master.

 

Following his death Captain Aertius of the First Company was elected to the office of Chapter Master. In it he led a mighty purge against the ork empires of the eastern fringe and scattered the horde of the Arch-Murderer of Calltion IV.

 

Really, none of this matters. The chapter has been established on their homeworld and in their quest for perfection. Mentioning anything after they complete their fortress monastery is irrelevant to who they are as a chapter.

 

The chapter’s homeworld of Caesarea II is a rocky gray mining-class civilized world, only 35% of the planet is made up of water, the rest is made up of mountainous terrain, and stony gray plains, dotted by Fortress-Cities in which the precious metals and minerals are harvested. Before its introduction as a homeworld for the Eagle Claws, Presinium II was an important mining planet that provided top-quality ore for the Adeptus Mechanicus forge-worlds; they still do as such.

 

So it's basically Chemos? This was a golden opportunity to have something of a difference from the EC, and you passed it up. If you want to just play EC in the current era, just do it. Claim they were lost in the warp. It's quicker, and has the same effect (though is a bit more cliched), but is balanced by not being basically plagarism.

 

Furthermore, you get confused about what the home world's called. Stick with Presnium.

 

There's no need for it to stop being a mining world. Deliverance is one of the most productive factory worlds in the Imperium, even with its status as a home world.

 

Each Fortress-City was established millennia ago when Caesarea was isolated during the days before the Great Crusade. The cities, although nominally under one government operate under a fierce rivalry to outdo another in production of raw materials, on occasion this can irrupt in warfare, but this is quite rare during present day Imperial rule.

 

Have the marines started to encourage this warfare in order to improve recruit quality?

 

How do miners make good Space Marine recruits? Especially under the Claws' no doubt exacting standards? Surely they need an even larger pool of recruits than usual, if they're so picky.

 

While the chapter has established a fortress-monastery, and thus theoretically rule the planet and the system, they leave most of the average day-to-day administrating and management to the local officials under their care. This was taken as an example from the Crimson Fists whom they had fought with during the Age of Apostasy; they consider government not fit for space marines of the Emperor, although they have removed corrupt individuals if they feel the need to.

 

Justify it without just "oh, they copied the Crimson Fists". As previously mentioned, you do more than enough copying elsewhere - the least you can do is explain the copied ideas in your own way.

 

The people of Caesarea are a tough hardy breed to survive in the mines and on a gloomy, wind-swept world. They have a strong warrior tradition dating back to the earliest founding’s of the Fortress Cites in which bands of professional soldiers fought wars between the Fortress Cites prior to rediscovery by the Imperium and they make excellent recruits for the chapter.

 

Warrior traditions wither away without wars. Happens. Sometimes they even do it with wars.

 

The method of recruitment that the Eagle Claws employ is similar to the Ultramarines, the best youths of Caesarea II that are selected from the mining fortress cites and are enrolled in the military academies from childhood, in which they are educated in a variety of combat drills, military tactics, and close combat, their system was taken from the Ultramarine’s military barracks on Macragge.

 

Inducting massive numbers of the strongest males would have a serious effect on population demographics (even with a relatively low mortality rate). A logical thing to do would be to put all military forces on the planet through these courses, and then to take the best of the best of the best of the best. The less-best either die or join the PDF (as you mentioned). You likely should mention how the PDF is set up, since it seems likely they'd be a little divorced from society after spending most of their lives in military camps. One obvious solution would seem to be the induction of women into the camps for training as well (prevents a population imbalance, too).

 

Also, either switch to being the plagarism marines, or stop copying everything from everyone. I don't know why you're so defensive about these ideas - they're not even yours!

 

The Eagle Claws' Fortress-Monastery is located in the heart of the capital city of Byzantius. From there the Eagle Claws rule the planet and conduct their business. It is the place where the battle-brothers live and train. Inside the Fortress-Monastery there is entire halls dominated by the statues and busts of the past heroes of the chapter. It is said that a man is judged by the unflinching stares of these ancient warriors.

 

Byzantius is a poor choice for a name, being once more a blatantly obvious reference that kills the immersion.

 

Officers’ armor are ornate works of art, helmets are colored gold and silver to denote rank. The company color is shown on the right kneepad and backpack, as not to detract from the colors of the Eagle Claws. Heraldry is dominated by magnificent tapestries and is usually topped by a gilded carving of the Emperor’s face. Specialist positions such as Chaplains, Librarians and Apothecaries usually have one shoulderpad and arm painted their codex color, while the chapter color of the Eagle Claws remains the most important.

 

How has their quest for perfection affected their views toward battlefield performance. Surely a chapter obsessed with perfection would attempt to improve upon the Codex Astartes (whether they'd succeed is open to question, but they'd try). Questioning would likely be encouraged - the perfection of their methods must be self-evident.

 

Whether a simple patrol or a massive assault, the Eagle Claws pursue their task without with competence and efficiency no matter how grueling their conditions. They expect nothing less than absolute perfection in themselves and their allies and have no patience for anything else. The diversity of humanity is prized heavily by the marines of the Eagle Claws, their training and studies of battle are all-important, but arts, music and sculpture as well. Their central Fortress-Monastery has a entire section devoted to the magnificent works made by the Eagle Claws.

 

As mentioned before, when do they find time for such pastimes? They're training almost constantly.

 

The Eagle Claws are said to have a marked streak for arrogance and vanity, they hold other forces that do not perform to their level of expectation to be cowardly and as such are held in low regard by the battle brothers of the Eagle Claws. However the chapter feels that they however are not the most distingished of the space Marines, feelign that the honor goes to the first founding chapters, however they are very prideful, a trait that toher Imperial organizations find to be irritating when dealing with the chapter. For the Eagle Claws, humanity is the most perfect being in the galaxy. As such they hold certain pride in human dignity. Anyone who dares to cross the Emperor’s light is not even worthy of the slightest thought or pity, to the Eagle Claws they are worse then vermin.

 

This paragraph's writing is just flat-out bad. It's confusing, says Eagle Claws far too many times, and has a lot of typoes.

 

As it is with most Astartes chapters the Eagle Claws do not think of the Emperor as a god, although they to revere him to a point. To the Eagle Claws the Emperor is everything they can hope to become, The Emperor is the perfect human and all must strive to become like Him on Terra. While not as fanatical in their belief as the Black Templars, the Eagle Claws are noted for there fierce faith in the Emperor and their special contempt for races such as the Eldar and Tau who believe themselves to be superior to humanity. In the Eagle Claws view xenos such as orks and tyranids are more like animals than anything, but the particular arrogance of the Eldar is a grave insult to the chapter.

 

Behold, a namedrop. You know, if you work in the Iron Hands, Salamanders and White Scars, I think you'll have covered all the Loyalist Chapters of Legend. Best make it quick. There's only a few paragraphs left.

 

The Emperor being the perfect human is a nice touch, but I'm pretty sure it's ripped from the EC. What are their attitudes to psykers based on this? To human mortality?

 

The phoenix is also a revered animal. Chapter Master Romulus has stated that the rebirth of the Eagle Claws could be likened to a mythical phoenix. As such the chapter banner bears the image of the Phoenix and many captains chose the phoenix as their personal heraldry. The Phoenix is also associated with the apothecaries of the Eagle Claws.

 

I always found the addition of the Phoenix to the EC to be hamhanded at best. You need to explain further why it is an important symbol for the apothecaries (it's rather evident, but explain anyway).

 

Does this reverence for the Phoenix perhaps work it way into combat doctrine?

 

And had you considered naming them the Phoenix Claws?

 

As such the successful recovery of gene-seed is often considered more important than actual combat doctrine, and sometimes even the lives of other imperial forces. The Eagle Claws are notoriously paranoid about their Gene-stock and there have been a number of disputes with the Mechanicus regarding their geneseed tithe. A compromise was eventually reached with only the most trusted Inquisitors allowed to review the Eagle Claws most precious resource. Only the finest physical specimens are chosen for implantation, so that the mutation rate of the gene-seed was practically zero. Every enhancement produced by the gene-seed functions at peak efficiency, allowing the Space Marines to achieve their full potential in battle.

 

The Mechanicus reviews geneseed tithes - not the Inquisition.

 

"Claws of the Emperor! Death to his foes!"

 

This is so blatant it's actively painful. It works, but it shatters any subtlety that remains.

 

This is most felt for there comtempt for chapter's with less than par geneseed. They have a rocky relationship with the Space Wolves and Black Dragons in particular. This has led to some strained relations between marines serving with the Legio. However the quality of apothecaries on duty with the legio is unrivaled by any other and there practices are somewhat tolerated.

 

More namedropping. Don't bother. Explain what they feel generally, and people will be able to work out how they feel specifically.

 

* * *

 

You have not given the chapter's beliefs and obsession with perfection the in-depth treatment they need if you want this to be seen as anything more than a blatant rip-off of the Emperor's Children. If you're fine with that, fair enough, but I'd be even more unimpressed if you were. Added to that, you confuse the issue with constant Roman references, which detract in their lack of subtlety.

 

More explanation of why. More explanation of how. More thought put into this generally. That is what is needed, and if you are not willing to provide it, others will not be either. If you do not think it needs it, I think you should compare it to many of the other IAs it sits next to in the Librarium.

Edited May 16, 2009 by Octavulg

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

More explanation of why. More explanation of how. More thought put into this generally. That is what is needed, and if you are not willing to provide it, others will not be either. If you do not think it needs it, I think you should compare it to many of the other IAs it sits next to in the Librarium.

 

The issue here I will now reduce into a nutshell for easy comprehension:

 

Gree, if you want your chapter to be archived in the Librarium with all of the other genuinely outstanding DIY Index Astartes articles, you would be more than advised, if not required to at least consider the criticism being given by the various posters. Octavulg is not completely at fault here, perhaps allowing himself to become frustrated, though I can understand that for both of you. He has commented on my own DIY in a similar, blunt fashion but he has a very good eye for detail and feel. The position of working in the Lexicanum speaks for itself.

 

Otherwise, if you are fine with how your chapter is right now and the fluff that you have, fantastic. Go about your life and go on liking your fluff and army as it is now. There is nothing wrong with having a flawed IA and loving it even in the face of adversity. However, and here is the main caveat that you seem to be struggling against here; it will NOT be admitted to the Librarium in it's current form. It would have to undergo some major refinement in order to be even considered. I know, I am working towards the same goal with my IA and is something I've always wanted, sort of like a feather in my cap if you will.

 

However I do not agree with the way you have replied to some of the rather helpful posts so far and do not have the time nor patience to be treated in a similar manner. It is not conducive to allowing others to help you and is certainly not respectful in any way of anyone elses freely given input which they can also freely decide to keep to themselves. The Liber Astartes forum where this IA now resides is a place to refine and adjust articles. Most IA's come here and are very rough around the edges. Though with help from the various generously minded liber-regulars even the roughest IA can become something worth archiving. That is though, with effort and a willingness to change your basic ideas and structures that you have already.

 

When developing an idea from your own mind, then thrown into a forum of any sort for review it WILL cop some flack and have it's flaws pointed out in what can, admitedly, sometimes be a less than helpful manner. However it is the mark of the submitter how he reacts to such criticism, and you have not reacted particuarly well thus far.

 

To put a fine point on this post:

 

Either you want your article in the Librarium archive, or you don't.

 

That there is your choice and something I can understand no matter which way you decide to go.

[Gree]

More explanation of why. More explanation of how. More thought put into this generally. That is what is needed, and if you are not willing to provide it, others will not be either. If you do not think it needs it, I think you should compare it to many of the other IAs it sits next to in the Librarium.

 

The issue here I will now reduce into a nutshell for easy comprehension:

 

Gree, if you want your chapter to be archived in the Librarium with all of the other genuinely outstanding DIY Index Astartes articles, you would be more than advised, if not required to at least consider the criticism being given by the various posters. Octavulg is not completely at fault here, perhaps allowing himself to become frustrated, though I can understand that for both of you. He has commented on my own DIY in a similar, blunt fashion but he has a very good eye for detail and feel. The position of working in the Lexicanum speaks for itself.

 

Otherwise, if you are fine with how your chapter is right now and the fluff that you have, fantastic. Go about your life and go on liking your fluff and army as it is now. There is nothing wrong with having a flawed IA and loving it even in the face of adversity. However, and here is the main caveat that you seem to be struggling against here; it will NOT be admitted to the Librarium in it's current form. It would have to undergo some major refinement in order to be even considered. I know, I am working towards the same goal with my IA and is something I've always wanted, sort of like a feather in my cap if you will.

 

However I do not agree with the way you have replied to some of the rather helpful posts so far and do not have the time nor patience to be treated in a similar manner. It is not conducive to allowing others to help you and is certainly not respectful in any way of anyone elses freely given input which they can also freely decide to keep to themselves. The Liber Astartes forum where this IA now resides is a place to refine and adjust articles. Most IA's come here and are very rough around the edges. Though with help from the various generously minded liber-regulars even the roughest IA can become something worth archiving. That is though, with effort and a willingness to change your basic ideas and structures that you have already.

 

When developing an idea from your own mind, then thrown into a forum of any sort for review it WILL cop some flack and have it's flaws pointed out in what can, admitedly, sometimes be a less than helpful manner. However it is the mark of the submitter how he reacts to such criticism, and you have not reacted particuarly well thus far.

 

To put a fine point on this post:

 

Either you want your article in the Librarium archive, or you don't.

 

That there is your choice and something I can understand no matter which way you decide to go.

 

 

Ummm, it is already in the Librarium, check the link.

 

Octavulg, if you cannot attempt to be productive in your criticisum, don't post. It is okay to say "This doesn't work", but you must at least attempt to offer a possible solution to the same end (unless the end point is what you are against, and in that case you need to develop your point more).

 

Possible solutions were offered in some cases, and rejected, usually with minimal justification (if any).

 

Instead, Gree appears to have chosen to intepret these as personal attacks. I look forward to being called mean and cruel for the below.

 

 

I saw precious little advice and more personal sniping, mostly from you.

 

I am also sorry to disapoint you as I have taken your suggestions to heart.

 

snip

 

While I took to heart the advcie on changing it, was any of the personal attacks and sniping really nessecary. All of this advice, while helpful, is underlaced with a condescending tone.

 

An Eagle Claws Marine

 

As has been mentioned, this is both the scheme of the Emperor's Children and the scheme of the Hawk Lords.

 

 

Color schemes have been repeated bfore and I like the purple and gold, regardless I am not going to change it

Edited May 16, 2009 by Gree

[Gree]

Alright, I have gone with a completely new IA. No mention of any other chapter, new homwworld, and more focus on the Ultramarines.

[Severus6]

I guess the real question is, are you all finished with the puerile behavior? If not, then all involved can expect to get a warning and this thread will be shut down. Ferrata has already explained the ground rules and as I am out of patience this is the last verbal warning you (those obviously involved) will receive. :(

 

=]I[= Severus6 =]I[=

[The 13th Goat]

Despite the recent arguments, i feel you deserve a broader look at your IA. Gonna do a full breakdown, see if there is any points i see, but i don't have the patience for retorts and rebuttles. If you don't like my crit, fine. Lets keep this nice and productive:

 

THE EAGLE CLAWS

 

PURITY ABOVE ALL

 

ORIGINS

 

The earliest records of the Eagle Claws over somewhere in the late 35th millennium, originally the chapter, was a fleet-based chapter believed to be of Guilliman’s stock, called the Amethyst Knights. Shortly after their founding they suffered an assault by an elder raiding force.

 

They beat off the attackers but not before suffering a large amount of casualties. The survivors regrouped under the leadership of Marius Findor, their newly appointed chapter master.

 

Findor declared that the near destruction was the result of laxity and impurity, he said that the event would never happen again and the chapter must aspire to genetic purity in order to ensure the coming generations would be strongest than those who fell, and only by the grace of the Emperor would they recover.

 

Findor decreed that that despite their casualties they would perform as usual in order to regain their lost shame and ‘’Strike back at the enemies of the Emperor like the claws of the Imperial eagle itself’’ shortly thereafter the chapter’s name was unanimously changed to the Eagle Claws.

 

The chapter then sided with Thor’s growing movement, one of the exceptions to the Adeptus Astartes, due to what they felt was laxity by Vandire in allowing xenos to run free among the Imperium while he went mad. They fought hard in the crusade towards Terra, despite their limited numbers, and earned a fearsome reputation in the space boarding actions, although they took no action in the solar system itself.

 

After the conclusion of the Apostasy the Eagle Claws received their rewards when they requested a new homeworld. They chose Asclepieion Major as their new homeworld and contsruected a fortress mosntsary.

 

From there Marius Findor rebuilt the chapter, only the highest purity and perfection would be required in order for the chapter to prove itself after its close brush with extinction.

 

Marius Findor continued to lead the chapter until he was killed in one of the many crusades against the xenos who had taken the opportunity to conquer Imperial territories during the Age of Apostasy. His enraged honor guard hacked down the greenskin warlord responsible and the chapter finished its crusading operation.

 

From Asclepieion Major the chapter has rebuilt itself and serves to prove itself past the weakness and imperfection and cleanse the stars of the Emperor’s enemies.

 

Couple of points:

 

• Why did Findor think it was genetic impurity that cost them the Eldar battle?
  
• As some of the others have pointed out, the marines only really joined in at the end. I also noted that they didn't get involved in the Solar system. Where were they? I was under the impression of the chapters involved fought on Terra.
  
• The honour guard bit doesn't seem relevent.
  

 

Not to bring up old points, but i don't really understand this desire for perfection. I know you've been re-writing this, so i don't know if its the casualty of previos crit, but i don't think you've gone in to enough detail as to why there so puritanical. At the moment its your weakest point in the IA, so perhaps future adjustments could be made to strengthin this point.

 

HOMEWORLD

 

Asclepieion Major is grey world, divnded between great mountians, stonry plains and vast forests, with only s single small ocean. It is by Imperial definiton a death world. Many dangerous beasts exist on the surface, great bear-sized scorpions, ravneous hyperwolves, murders of blood crows and pincer-armed qegoths. Prescious little grows on the surface.

 

The most dangerous of the inhabinnats are the great Asclepieion eagle. The eagle is as big as a man, and features four wings, stone-like feathers and claws that can shear throught plasteel with ease. When he arrived on the world Marius Findor proclaimed the existence of the eagle as a good omen. He declared such a beast must be slain in as a pospective recruits final test.

 

The people of Asclepieion are dived into numeous clans and tibes, each livng in great fortress cities. The people are very much like the ancient techno-barbians of Earth, psses advanced weaponry but a fierce, almost savage culture.

 

There is no nominal rulers and the tribes fight each each other for land and resources, as well to surivive in the harsh enviorment. They fight with las-locks, with electro-pikes and shotcannons, thier greatest warriors wear a crude form of power carapace armor and wild oversized autoguns and motorized chainblades.

 

Food is usually grown in vasy hydroponics farms in the sealed enviorments of the fortress cites, or meat taken from the outside beasts in mass hunts by veteran warriors.

 

While the Eagle Claws rule the world they encourage competition among the tribes in order to create potential recruits and weed out the weak. However the Eagle Claws usually stop one of the tribes from completely destroying another, in order to maintain a balance.

 

The chapter chooses the strongest young warriors of the techno-clans once every fifty years, all tribal and clan differences are forgotten and left behind by years of training and conditioning, for when the recruits enter the Eagle Claws there is only the chapter from then on.

 

The chapter’s fortress monstasy is based in the wind-swept Epidaurus Hinterlands, one of the harshet places on Asclepieion . The chapter also mains a secondary naval base on Asclepieion’s principal moon.

 

Stongest

 

Whats the strongest bit at the end for?

 

Again, as previously stated, this is very similar to Chemos in the first sentence. However you do go on to make it more personal. My only real gripe is its very detailed for something that isn't really terribly important to the chapter's makeup. I would lose the Eagle thing, as it sounds a like it was thrown in their to justify your name; you've already done that, noting the Aquilla. I also think your detail into the workings of the planet may be slightly to detailed for an IA. Keep in mind that unlike the Blood Angels and Ultramarines, this isn't your chapter's first homeworld. Their unlikely to form connection strong enough for it to be considered crucial to their indentity.

 

It's also mans, not mains.

 

COMBAT DOCRINE

 

Stongest

 

As inheritors of Guilliman the Eagle Claws follow the codex astartes fairly closely, with the obvious exception of a larger than number of apothecaries, which the Eagle Claws will go to extreme lengths ptotect, even going to ignore battlefield objectives on occasion.

 

The reverence of the apothecary goes beyond a mere large number of apothecaries ad all the officers and sergeants are trained to a higher degree of basic medical care than most other chapters and geneseed removal.

 

While the codex itself is followed and respected, the Eagle Claws have seen fit to add-on various treatises and articles by the chapter’s officers over the various millennia, based of their experiences as the Eagle Claws consider there can be no danger in multiple points of view, lest the chapter become entrenched in one way of thinking.

 

The chapter by large considers battlefield tactics and wits to be more important than indicial feats of arms, since the chapter as a whole is considered more important the honor and ability of the individual warriors, although the chapter boasts many fine and skilled fighters.

 

Again with that strongest?

 

I'd say this was your weakest section. The apothacarie thing is not explained adequetly, and the sentence its described in need serious grammatical adjustment to make sense. Why is the medical thing important? If its due to the earlier battle, you need to mention it. It also suffers that "better than yours" quality when you mention trained to a higher degree. Just say more focused. Its less assuming but still puts the message across. Your understanding of the codex is slightly off. It is a massive war journal, and is constantly added to by each chapter that uses it. What you mention again seems rather off and more "better than codex".

 

The final line is a mixed bag. I'm glad that in this respect the chapter is different from teh Emperor's Children, but the last line is pointless. "The chapter boasts many fine and skilled fighters"? Their a space marine chapter. I would be more alarmed if the didn't!

 

 

ORGANISATION

 

The organisation of the Eagle Claws is close to codex standard with the sole exception of a large number of apotheciares. The chapter also bosats a large number of Predator Annhilators for anti-tank duty.

 

The apothecaries of the Eagle Claws are highly renowned among the Imperium as peerless members of their trade, who approach their work with an absolute fanaticism, to be an Eagle Claws apothecary absolute skill and perfection is required.

 

Why? Thats the main underlining problem with this. You have given no explanation for this structure. The apothacary thing again is presented in a BTY (Better Than Yours) manner.

 

BELIFS

 

The Eagle Claws are proud and reclusive even for a chapter of the Adeptus Astartes, their brush with near annihilation leading the chapter to believe that only by the highest measure of purity and perfection in mind, body and soul, would the honor of the chapter be held.

 

The chapter itself practices a form of ancestor worship of the Emperor, as the greatest human being, and Guilliman, as his most favored son. Marius Findor is revered as a chapter hero and as a saint.

 

The Eagle Claws consider the surivial of the chapter to be mor eimportant than the death of an individual marine and the battle brothers are expceted to trade their lives at a moment’s notice for that of an Apothecary’s.

 

The chapter’s attitude is seen as executively prideful among other Imperial forces, which are sometimes put off by the snobbery of the Eagle Claws; particularly they hold chapters with degraded or mutated geneseed in contempt.

 

The chapter is one of the most xenophobic Astartes chapters in the Imperium, the chapter has not forgotten their near annihilation by Eldar raiders and pursues the destruction of alien races, be they Eldar, ork, Tau or any other, with a fervent zeal. The Eagle Claws have contributed a large number of forces into the Deathwatch of their purpose.

 

The Eagle Claws have a noted grudge against the members of the Black Legion for a certain incident in M38 when Chaos Lord Heru’ur Daemonseye captured several marines during the ear for Alexia III and executed them while sarcastically commenting that the Eagle Claws would make good followers of the Dark Gods, the chapter has sworn to hunt down and slay the Chaos Lord for the insult.

 

Beliefs spelt wrong.

 

Most chapter operate under the belief structure you describe, so i'm unsure if its relevent. The saint-hood thing should be dropped. The Chaos lord thing should also be expanded.

 

 

GENESEED

The Chapter’s geneseed is extremely pure, being of the stock of Robute Guilliman and as the highly skilled work of the Eagle Claws apothecaries the rate of mutation is practically zero due to the extremely harsh genetic standards of the chapter, compared to others.

 

The geneseed is seen as the Emperor’s greatest gift and it’s preservation runs throught the hearts of every Eagle Claws, the chapter choses only the finest pshycial speicms of geneseed and although this can lead to a slighly slower rate of induction compared to other astartes chapters the Eagle Claws consider it to be an acceptable cost.

 

Again, this isn't actually original stuff. All chapters percieve the geneseed as a gift. Doesn't really add anything. The slower rate thing and the standards are ok, though.

 

===================================================

 

Those are my opinions on the IA. I still think it needs a lot of work, and should not have been inducted into the Librarium in its current state (especially with how out of date their copy is). With that being said, i am not on the Librarium team, so my opinion is my own. I'm glad the Fulgrim referances have been stemed a little, but you've only just started building up a repuable take on the EC. They still need a shed load of work.

 

You might also want to stick a picture up, so we can see what they look like.

[Gree]

THE EAGLE CLAWS

 

PURITY ABOVE ALL

 

ORIGINS

 

The earliest records of the Eagle Claws over somewhere in the late 35th millennium, originally the chapter, was a fleet-based chapter believed to be of Guilliman?s stock, called the Amethyst Knights. Shortly after their founding they suffered an assault by an elder raiding force.

 

They beat off the attackers but not before suffering a large amount of casualties. The survivors regrouped under the leadership of Marius Findor, their newly appointed chapter master.

 

Findor declared that the near destruction was the result of laxity and impurity, he said that the event would never happen again and the chapter must aspire to genetic purity in order to ensure the coming generations would be strongest than those who fell, and only by the grace of the Emperor would they recover.

 

Findor decreed that that despite their casualties they would perform as usual in order to regain their lost shame and ??Strike back at the enemies of the Emperor like the claws of the Imperial eagle itself?? shortly thereafter the chapter?s name was unanimously changed to the Eagle Claws.

 

The chapter then sided with Thor?s growing movement, one of the exceptions to the Adeptus Astartes, due to what they felt was laxity by Vandire in allowing xenos to run free among the Imperium while he went mad. They fought hard in the crusade towards Terra, despite their limited numbers, and earned a fearsome reputation in the space boarding actions, although they took no action in the solar system itself.

 

After the conclusion of the Apostasy the Eagle Claws received their rewards when they requested a new homeworld. They chose Asclepieion Major as their new homeworld and contsruected a fortress mosntsary.

 

From there Marius Findor rebuilt the chapter, only the highest purity and perfection would be required in order for the chapter to prove itself after its close brush with extinction.

 

Marius Findor continued to lead the chapter until he was killed in one of the many crusades against the xenos who had taken the opportunity to conquer Imperial territories during the Age of Apostasy. His enraged honor guard hacked down the greenskin warlord responsible and the chapter finished its crusading operation.

 

From Asclepieion Major the chapter has rebuilt itself and serves to prove itself past the weakness and imperfection and cleanse the stars of the Emperor?s enemies.

 

Couple of points:

 

• Why did Findor think it was genetic impurity that cost them the Eldar battle?
  
• As some of the others have pointed out, the marines only really joined in at the end. I also noted that they didn't get involved in the Solar system. Where were they? I was under the impression of the chapters involved fought on Terra.
  
• The honour guard bit doesn't seem relevent.
  

 

Not to bring up old points, but i don't really understand this desire for perfection. I know you've been re-writing this, so i don't know if its the casualty of previos crit, but i don't think you've gone in to enough detail as to why there so puritanical. At the moment its your weakest point in the IA, so perhaps future adjustments could be made to strengthin this point.

 

 

I wanted genetic purity to be a big thing, how would you suggest I work that in? To be honest I was actually going for more of a Hitler thing, where Hitler blamed the Jews for racial reasons Findor thought the prolbem lay in the geneseed and that only the highest gene strandards could be required for the next generation to make up for the mistakes of the old one. But feel I may have misssed the mark.

 

Should I change the eldar bit to a chaos warband? And make the reason for their attack was geneseed? So that now the Eagle Claws feel they have to have pure geneseed to aviod chaos corruption?

 

HOMEWORLD

 

Asclepieion Major is grey world, divnded between great mountians, stonry plains and vast forests, with only s single small ocean. It is by Imperial definiton a death world. Many dangerous beasts exist on the surface, great bear-sized scorpions, ravneous hyperwolves, murders of blood crows and pincer-armed qegoths. Prescious little grows on the surface.

 

The most dangerous of the inhabinnats are the great Asclepieion eagle. The eagle is as big as a man, and features four wings, stone-like feathers and claws that can shear throught plasteel with ease. When he arrived on the world Marius Findor proclaimed the existence of the eagle as a good omen. He declared such a beast must be slain in as a pospective recruits final test.

 

The people of Asclepieion are dived into numeous clans and tibes, each livng in great fortress cities. The people are very much like the ancient techno-barbians of Earth, psses advanced weaponry but a fierce, almost savage culture.

 

There is no nominal rulers and the tribes fight each each other for land and resources, as well to surivive in the harsh enviorment. They fight with las-locks, with electro-pikes and shotcannons, thier greatest warriors wear a crude form of power carapace armor and wild oversized autoguns and motorized chainblades.

 

Food is usually grown in vasy hydroponics farms in the sealed enviorments of the fortress cites, or meat taken from the outside beasts in mass hunts by veteran warriors.

 

While the Eagle Claws rule the world they encourage competition among the tribes in order to create potential recruits and weed out the weak. However the Eagle Claws usually stop one of the tribes from completely destroying another, in order to maintain a balance.

 

The chapter chooses the strongest young warriors of the techno-clans once every fifty years, all tribal and clan differences are forgotten and left behind by years of training and conditioning, for when the recruits enter the Eagle Claws there is only the chapter from then on.

 

The chapter?s fortress monstasy is based in the wind-swept Epidaurus Hinterlands, one of the harshet places on Asclepieion . The chapter also mains a secondary naval base on Asclepieion?s principal moon.

 

Stongest

 

Whats the strongest bit at the end for?

 

Again, as previously stated, this is very similar to Chemos in the first sentence. However you do go on to make it more personal. My only real gripe is its very detailed for something that isn't really terribly important to the chapter's makeup. I would lose the Eagle thing, as it sounds a like it was thrown in their to justify your name; you've already done that, noting the Aquilla. I also think your detail into the workings of the planet may be slightly to detailed for an IA. Keep in mind that unlike the Blood Angels and Ultramarines, this isn't your chapter's first homeworld. Their unlikely to form connection strong enough for it to be considered crucial to their indentity.

 

It's also mans, not mains.

 

 

The strongest was a typo when I was testing out my spellchekcer, I will remove it.

 

I would also point out that this is the chapter's first homeworld as they where a fleet based chapter before.

 

I tried to stay away from Chemos and go more of a Caliban route, since death worldrs made better recruits for the marines.

 

Also I had high hopes for the Eagle thing, How would you suggest I work that in properly?

 

COMBAT DOCRINE

 

Stongest

 

As inheritors of Guilliman the Eagle Claws follow the codex astartes fairly closely, with the obvious exception of a larger than number of apothecaries, which the Eagle Claws will go to extreme lengths ptotect, even going to ignore battlefield objectives on occasion.

 

The reverence of the apothecary goes beyond a mere large number of apothecaries ad all the officers and sergeants are trained to a higher degree of basic medical care than most other chapters and geneseed removal.

 

While the codex itself is followed and respected, the Eagle Claws have seen fit to add-on various treatises and articles by the chapter?s officers over the various millennia, based of their experiences as the Eagle Claws consider there can be no danger in multiple points of view, lest the chapter become entrenched in one way of thinking.

 

The chapter by large considers battlefield tactics and wits to be more important than indicial feats of arms, since the chapter as a whole is considered more important the honor and ability of the individual warriors, although the chapter boasts many fine and skilled fighters.

 

Again with that strongest?

 

I'd say this was your weakest section. The apothacarie thing is not explained adequetly, and the sentence its described in need serious grammatical adjustment to make sense. Why is the medical thing important? If its due to the earlier battle, you need to mention it. It also suffers that "better than yours" quality when you mention trained to a higher degree. Just say more focused. Its less assuming but still puts the message across. Your understanding of the codex is slightly off. It is a massive war journal, and is constantly added to by each chapter that uses it. What you mention again seems rather off and more "better than codex".

 

The final line is a mixed bag. I'm glad that in this respect the chapter is different from teh Emperor's Children, but the last line is pointless. "The chapter boasts many fine and skilled fighters"? Their a space marine chapter. I would be more alarmed if the didn't!

 

 

Agreed I will go over and justify the apothecaries more.

 

ORGANISATION

 

The organisation of the Eagle Claws is close to codex standard with the sole exception of a large number of apotheciares. The chapter also bosats a large number of Predator Annhilators for anti-tank duty.

 

The apothecaries of the Eagle Claws are highly renowned among the Imperium as peerless members of their trade, who approach their work with an absolute fanaticism, to be an Eagle Claws apothecary absolute skill and perfection is required.

 

Why? Thats the main underlining problem with this. You have given no explanation for this structure. The apothacary thing again is presented in a BTY (Better Than Yours) manner.

 

 

I wanted to referance my playing style a bit, I'll change it.

 

BELIFS

 

The Eagle Claws are proud and reclusive even for a chapter of the Adeptus Astartes, their brush with near annihilation leading the chapter to believe that only by the highest measure of purity and perfection in mind, body and soul, would the honor of the chapter be held.

 

The chapter itself practices a form of ancestor worship of the Emperor, as the greatest human being, and Guilliman, as his most favored son. Marius Findor is revered as a chapter hero and as a saint.

 

The Eagle Claws consider the surivial of the chapter to be mor eimportant than the death of an individual marine and the battle brothers are expceted to trade their lives at a moment?s notice for that of an Apothecary?s.

 

The chapter?s attitude is seen as executively prideful among other Imperial forces, which are sometimes put off by the snobbery of the Eagle Claws; particularly they hold chapters with degraded or mutated geneseed in contempt.

 

The chapter is one of the most xenophobic Astartes chapters in the Imperium, the chapter has not forgotten their near annihilation by Eldar raiders and pursues the destruction of alien races, be they Eldar, ork, Tau or any other, with a fervent zeal. The Eagle Claws have contributed a large number of forces into the Deathwatch of their purpose.

 

The Eagle Claws have a noted grudge against the members of the Black Legion for a certain incident in M38 when Chaos Lord Heru?ur Daemonseye captured several marines during the ear for Alexia III and executed them while sarcastically commenting that the Eagle Claws would make good followers of the Dark Gods, the chapter has sworn to hunt down and slay the Chaos Lord for the insult.

 

Beliefs spelt wrong.

 

Most chapter operate under the belief structure you describe, so i'm unsure if its relevent. The saint-hood thing should be dropped. The Chaos lord thing should also be expanded.

 

 

I wanted to emphazise the importance of Marius Findor as one of the chapter's major heroes almost on par with standing to Guilliman.

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/sm/bpe=68147A&bpj=68147A&bp=68147A&bpc=68147A&hdt=68147A&hdm=68147A&hdl=68147A&ey=078CAD&er=68147A&pi=7A6D6D&nk=68147A&ch=68147A&eg=855B13&sk=855B13&abs=68147A&bt=68147A&cod=68147A&ull=68147A&lk=68147A&lll=68147A&lft=68147A&url=68147A&rk=68147A&lrl=68147A&rft=68147A&slt=855B13&sli=68147A&srt=855B13&sri=68147A&ula=68147A&lel=68147A&lla=68147A&lw=68147A&lh=68147A&ura=68147A&rel=68147A&rla=68147A&rw=68147A&rh=68147A&bg=FFFFFF&rb=7A6D6D&gr=7A6D6D&/spacemarine.jpg

An Eagle Claws Marine

Origins

 

This is one thing I will not compromise however, I like thos color scheme and I have grown attachted to it very much.

Edited May 17, 2009 by Gree

[The 13th Goat]

Fair enough. By the sounds of it, your chapter are drifting more towards a Blood Angel Dark Angel style currently.

 

The purity thing could work with Chaos. I might even suggest the fall of findor could be attributed to it. Try this:

 

After a battle with Chaos, the chapeter was descimated. Many of the marines had been captured, tortured and turned on their brothers, twisted monstrosities. It was said that the mosterous clonelord Fabius Bile had even overseen some of these experiments. The Knights manage to force Chaos off the planet, but at a terrible cost. With most of their number dead, the acting Master Findor personally blamed the weakness of their geneseed for the abominations that had been turned against them. Decrying those that fell to the foul powers as weak, the chapter became obsessed with the purity of the geneseed, believing it was flaws in the Emperor's great gift that created a suseptability to the ruinous powers. Master Findor meet his end a hundred years later, leading the new Eagle Claws on a system wide crusade against a Fabius Bile support warband from the Black Legion.

 

 

Just an idea. The Fabius Bile link might be to overt, and others may find it cliched, but i think while the EC embraced Bile, the Eagle Claws would rally against him, defining your chapter as a loyalist.

 

With the Eagle thing, i tink its simply a case of where you want your chapter's name to come from. The Aquilla quote wasn't bad, and neither was the Eagle bit. You just need to stick to one source for their inspiration. Otherwise the other point seems redundant.

 

Finally Findor himself. Even the Black Templars don't veiw Sigmund on the same level as Dorn. I would be carefull with that. More to my original point, saint hood has connotations with religion, and thats always dubious with chapters unless the faith is the crux of your chapter.

[Brother Tyler]

It seems that a few reminders are in order.

 

Many players derive a great deal of satisfaction from developing their own Chapter of the Adeptus Astartes. Many of those post their thoughts here in the Liber Atartes forum.

 

The purpose of the Liber Astartes forum, though, despite the fervent desires of some, is not to just casually accept the work that players have done. Rather, it is to help players in the Chapter creation process. In order to do this effectively, open and honest criticism is an absolute must. When you post your DIY Chapter here, you must do so with the understanding that you are going to receive criticism of your work, along with suggestions for improvement/change. Whether or not you choose to follow the advice given is your own choice, but there's little point in posting here if you're not even going to consider the suggestions of other members.

 

Now here's the rub on the criticism - it must be constructive. Remember, the goal is to help the developer in the creative process, not to demoralize him.

 

A huge thing to remember is that we all have our own opinions, preferences, etc. Not everyone agrees on everything. So just because an idea has been used before and might be considered cliched by some doesn't mean that other members can't continue to use that idea. It's fair to point out that you think an idea is over-used, but the creator isn't then obligated to change his work.

 

A final note on disagreements - ultimately, the decisions are up to the creator. If you give feedback and the creator decides not to follow your suggestions, the best choice is to agree to disagree and leave it alone. Making a constructive argument first helps to convey the point, giving the creator the information needed to make a well-informed decision. After that, sustained efforts to persuade the creator, especially when he's acknowledged your input and still decided to stay his course, take on the appearance of brow-beating and bullying. We don't need that. Just make your best honest effort and then let the creator do his thing.

 

After all, at the end of the day, the only person who might be hurt by having a DIY Chapter that others don't like is the Chapter's creator. The rest of us are just spectators.

 

And just because you think something doesn't work doesn't make it a fact. Remember, the vast majority of work conducted herein is opinion. It's highly subjective.

 

So let's all sit back and relax.

 

=][=

[Gree]

Should I really drop Fabius Bile's name into the chapter? would't that be trying to ride off a canon character? Edited May 17, 2009 by Gree

[Ferrata]

Like many things about a DIY chapter it really depends on how you do it and why you do it. I myself used Bile in my Black Guard but more as an object of the chapters desire than him taking an active part in the chapter. It really is a fine balance between a nice quirk to the chapter and an attempt to gain fame and easy tie-ins.

[Gree]

Alright, I have submitted the final draft now and am planning to replace the current Eagle Claws article with this one. Edited May 17, 2009 by Gree

[The 13th Goat]

You've still spelt beliefs wrong.

[Gree]

Is that it?