Salamanders

[Isaiah]

If I was to create a seond founding chapter for the salamanders would anyone object? It does say none known in the list but that doesnt mean that there werent any.

 

Not that im going to go about this now but its just a point i would like to raise

 

- Isaiah -

 

 

 

I am not going to go about doing this, I just thought that by the term "None KNOWN" it could mean that thier was a possibility that a secound founding chapter was created with out the imperiums knowledge. I just thought it was wierd wording if they meant that none had been created.

[Ferrata]

Yes I would as it goes against all the current fluff. Why not make them a 3rd Founding Chapter? Why do they need to be a 2nd Founding Chapter? No Known means none :devil:

 

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[ixupi]

Would I object, care, mind? Not at all, but do I think it's reasonable or possible? Not a bit. So I can't stop you and wouldn't try to, you pay for the minis just as we do. Have fun with it. :devil:

[Ferrata]

As ixupi says, there are your models and you can do what you want with them, but from a fluff view see me first post :devil:

 

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[Dasleah]

Well, to me, 'None Known' means that they really just don't know. Given the largely solitary nature and attitude of the Salamanders, it wouldn't surprise me if in the beginning that some Salamanders decided to just wander off together and become in essence a 'Second Founding' Chapter. But I would make it Third, as if my memory serves me corrctly, the Salamanders were perhaps the smallest Legion, and so wouldn't have the numbers or real need to divide their strength until they actually could.

[Gyson_Vore]

It could be second founding, seeing as only a single vetren needs to be the commander, the rest could just be implanted with the Gene seed. I agree with Dasleah as far as 'none known' means it could happen, they aren't recordded.

[Gree]

It could be second founding, seeing as only a single vetren needs to be the commander, the rest could just be implanted with the Gene seed. I agree with Dasleah as far as 'none known' means it could happen, they aren't recordded.

 

Just make it third founding, why those eveybody hav ethe need to have thier chapter's second founding? I makes no sense.

[Dasleah]

I think the large part of the appeal of having a Second Founding Chapter is that it means that not only are they at least 10'000 years old, but the founders had a direct part in the Heresy, which is a pretty cool thing to brag about. It introduces all sort of possibilites concerning initial training and deployment, as undoubtadley a few Second Founders will have been trained in part, escorted by, or generally had direct actual dealings with their respective Primarches (Primarchi?)

But if you want all that, you can still have a Third Founding Chapter. A few of the Primarches were around into the Third (presumabley) and it's still old enough to have a good 9'000+ years of active history to play with. Plus, all the dern Fluff Nazis out there can't tell you that you can't make a Third Founding Chapter <_<

[Rogue Trader]

From IA:Salamanders

 

The Salamanders have never been great in number and were the smallest of the First Founding Legions. Perhaps it is for this reason that there seem to have been no Second Founding successor Chapters formed from the Salamanders, whilst the other Legions were broken down into several smaller fighting forces. Others point to the disaster at Istvaan V as reason for the lack of Second Founding Chapters (as many scholars believe the Salamanders to have been present at this infamous massacre).

 

Now you can take the word seem however you like, but from a pure fluff view, I would avoid it, personally. As has been mentioned, the Third Founding (in 001.M32) gives plenty of scope for a long and glorious history... if anything, to my mind, it's too long a period - I don't have the imagination to create 9000 years of history for my own chapters <_< :cuss

[Aurelius Rex]

There is a parallel here with the way Ben Counter tried to crowbar the Souldrinkers into the Second founding of the Fists.

 

To me it came over as a cheap way to give them some unearned credibility or importance within the history of the Imperium. My chapter is 22nd founding and proud of it. :P Sure, there is always the scope to insert other second founders, or more believably suspected second founders but it runs the risk of looking like thumbing a nose at reasonably established background.

 

It is even worse if this is has no relevance to the theme of the chapter.

 

Just because you can do something, it doesn't mean you should. ;)

 

 

+++ EDIT: This doesn't mean that you shouldn't play or fluff out second founders that GW had created - just check out SCC's highly impressive IA: Brazen Claws for an example of how to do this properly. Link. :D +++

[Gree]

There is a parallel here with the way Ben Counter tried to crowbar the Souldrinkers into the Second founding of the Fists.

 

To me it came over as a cheap way to give them some unearned credibility or importance within the history of the Imperium. My chapter is 22nd founding and proud of it. :P Sure, there is always the scope to insert other second founders, or more believably suspected second founders but it runs the risk of looking like thumbing a nose at reasonably established background.

 

It is even worse if this is has no relevance to the theme of the chapter.

 

Just because you can do something, it doesn't mean you should. ;)

 

 

+++ EDIT: This doesn't mean that you shouldn't play or fluff out second founders that GW had created - just check out SCC's highly impressive IA: Brazen Claws for an example of how to do this properly. Link. :D +++

 

Percisely, My chapter is 12th founding, which meshes perfectly into my history.

[Ferrata]

The only way you could make a 2nd Founding chapter is making them an Ultramarine Successor. There are 23 2nd Founding Chapters of the Ultramarines, but only 8 are named. My Chapter is 8th Founding, and happy to be that old :D

 

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[Race Bannon]

Or don't declare the exact founding. Just that they are a Salamander successor?

[Grand Master Belial]

Or don't declare the exact founding. Just that they are a Salamander successor?

 

I think I'll elaborate on Race's post.

 

The Second is UNIQUE of all the following Foundings in that it is made up entirely of First Founding Legions in Existence and seperating them into the smaller Chapters. If the Salamanders Legion numbered less than a 1000 battle brothers at the time of the Second Founding. Then there would have been nothing to split up and the Salamanders would have no Second Founding Chapters. That is what I believe has happened. The Salamanders grew their numbers very slowly, but lost far more during the Heresy. In the aftermath and writing of the Codex Astartes, the Salamaders were reduced to below Chapter strength. When it became time to split the Chapters, the Salamaders could not split and remained together through the Second Founding. Even into the 41st Millleniumn the Chapter has still not gotten back to full strength.

 

The Third Founding was the first founding were entirely brand new chapters have been raised that did not have a past. At this time there would have been enough geneseed submitted to the Adeptus Mechanicus that it would have been possible to create a chapter with any of the purer loyal geneseeds. This would include the Salamanders. The Salamanders may have sent a squad or two to train the new chapter or it could have been done by another Chapter with greater resources to train (like the Ultramarines or Mentors).

[Ferrata]

Didn't the Sallies suffer two loses in the Heresy? First in the Drop Site Massacre, then when they tried to Warp Jump to Terra. If so, they would have been under the 1500 Marine limit (upto 1500 it would have pointless splitting into two under strength chapters, over it would have been ok for a split)

 

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